CCM Fans and the club

[dibo]

@Shaun Mielekamp, if you read over these threads you'll see that I'm one of the most strident and consistent critics of taking games away.

I was really angry back when we did the whole NSO thing.

The NSO argument boils down to "we have to do something, so why not try this?"

There are problems though.

1. If we are to "see three games a season for 3 seasons and then an appraisal made", what appraisal is to be made unless this is exactly what you say it is not, i.e. "the first step in taking the Mariners away from the Central Coast"? If this isn't about a potential move, what exactly is being appraised? It presupposes that this will be a success (or else you wouldn't even try it), which leads me on to the next question (which are more rhetorical questions for the club, should they turn out to be serious)...
2. What defines success here?
   1. What crowds do the NSO games have to draw for this to be a win?
   2. How many additional members do we need to get for this to be a win?
   3. What level of loss of support in Gosford is acceptable, or are we to assume that the Central Coast community will be unaffected or even boosted by taking games away?
3. Why is this a better option than:
   1. Increased investment in publicity, marketing and community engagement?
   2. Increased investment in players (i.e. marquees)?
   3. Revising ticket prices to better target a 'sweet spot' - it's possible that a small reduction from $20 for regular games and $24 for premium matches might positively affect demand?
4. If the gossip turns out to be true and we're considering taking games to places other than NSO (favourites seem to be trying Canberra again and even trying Tasmania seem to be the favourites), what could the possible benefits be?
5. Lastly, if we're not doing enough right now on the Central Coast in terms of crowds, revenue, etc., what *do* we have to do to keep the club 100% on the Central Coast?
   1. How big do our crowds need to be?
   2. How much revenue do we need to drive?
   3. How much do we need to hit up in sponsorships?
   4. Can any of the three levels of government assist?

We're not chumps. We're not stupid. We're not hicks. We know if there's a problem it needs to be fixed, but taking games to NSO is a conclusion in desperate need of an argument. I've taken particular issue with your posts AM, but it's not up to you to sell the idea, it's up to the club. If they're going to propose it seriously, they are going to need to lay out the reasons why or they are going to have a backlash.

As you can see, I was most annoyed about the simple lack of communication.

The North Sydney venture in part annoyed me because I thought it was a wild goose chase for fans who may not even like the idea, and that there was very little in the way of rationale other than "this is going to save/make money", without even acknowledging the possibility that there might be any blowback.

The big thing that irks (and this goes back to the days of the Canberra games in 2009 or so) is the notion that the club needs to take games away because we're not big enough to stand on our own at home.

If it's just a case that we need a good tv deal and we're right after that (and the PFA deal guaranteeing 30% of new money is a good one because frankly I was worried it'd be a lot more than that!), then I'd love to hear the club say it out loud.

I appreciate you laying out the logic behind taking games elsewhere, and appreciate that there has been a more open line of communication in recent months.

I still hold concerns about the idea of taking games away simply because the more we do, the more we risk eroding the parochial support at home.

If you tell us though that there's a $150k turnaround on a game moved away to a 'community' venue, and you're gonna cap it at two, then I think people can at least rationalise that.

 

[midfielder]

Hi Midfielder

I greatly appreciate your feedback and genuinely take this on board. As has been outlined I am currently in the process of generating a report for Mike and Peter that takes into account the constructive feedback from the members and supporter base. This is not about just moving games at all and totally agree with your point there.

regards

Thanks Shaun I have sent you a conversation as well ..

As I see it there is a market within 5 to 8 kls of the F3 in Sydney however to date from what I have seen marketing to this area has been poor and until recently I lived in this area.... But the most critical part is for the marketing to work the games must be in Gosford ...

Cheers

 

[Big Al]

For what it's worth me and the wife can't read the clock on the scoreboard either at the bay 16 end.

I wear glasses as well so getting some won't help

 

[Davo1985]

Hi everyone, first time poster here, and can I disclose that i am not a current CCM supporter but a Syd FC supporter, however back in the day i use to attend many mariners games in 06, 07 and 08 due to my then girlfriend being related to one of the players.

The reason i'm writing is because I saw a rather interesting yet sad post on another forum by a mariners supporter and thought it was worth reposting here to get a take from current mariners fans as well as CCM staff.

The following response was in relation to active fans at games. If the poster is correct in what he's saying then surely that's very unfortunate when you consider the size and noise the marinators use to make at home games.

......

"The former active supporters group The Marinators were essentially disbanded because people whinged about swearing, and pressured the right people to eventually start ejections for pitiful reasons, and if I recall, an influential member of the group was kicked out and issued a ban mid-match and it resulted in the complete dissolution of the group. Nobody was on their side; The club and stadium were after a "family atmosphere" and had to support the Concerned Parents Association because it would cost less.
It took several seasons for any kind of active support to reform, and it's now a constructed atmosphere sponsored by the club*.
Just look at the amount of support behind the goals in some of these earlier seasons clashes.

The Mariners averaged their highest crowds before the dissolution of the Marinators."

.....

The question I would like to pose to the CEO (Shaun), is there any way the club is able to engage or can do to help regain the passionate active support base that the club once had? Perhaps by creating a real designated area which can't be influenced too much by the do gooders that would prefer fans to sit, stay quiet and clap.

As a travelling supporter, I must admit the atmosphere at the mariners games is no where near as good as it use to be, and I believe this has had an overall effect on the general crowd figures too. Just my opinion though.

Would really appreciate a response.

 

[dibo]

For my money, and as someone who was around the core active support from 2005 and been in and out since, it's nothing to do with the Marinators' disbanding nor restrictions or lack of support from the club.

At the start of 2008/9, the seating in Bay 16 became reserved only, in keeping with an A-League wide rule.

This was actively supported by the Marinators at the time (no pun intended), having been discussed in a few threads (see here).

Unfortunately, there were no concession prices offered, it was full-price adult tickets only (not helpful when a lot of the home end were students). This trimmed the numbers.

Additionally, security was extremely heavy-handed, so the 'casual' home end attendee who'd come for a taste before getting stuck in was now locked out, putting a stop to the usual organic growth.

This is where the club got it wrong (waaaaaay before Shaun's time).

The result was going from a very full bays' worth of *loud* support, we went to about half a bay.

We changed capo too, but that wasn't anything to do with swearing - if anything the criticism we faced until 2008 was that we were a bit 'family friendly' or 'swimming carnival', and there was a desire to get a bit more creative but also take on a bit of an edge.

One game in Newcastle we were singing "if you hate Joel Griffiths, call him a **** - YOU'RE A ****!" which got someone from the club running over to tell us off because we were apparently *very* audible on the Fox feed and Serious People Were Getting Upset.

Unfortunately as results went south, the mood did too and the Bay got progressively less fun through 2008/9, to the point where towards the end (and that AFCCL campaign) we seemed to spend more time hanging shit on the team than supporting.

To get around the reserved seating, for the last CL game we moved down to bay 1, but then in 2009/10 they shifted across to bay 23.

On a personal level, it was at that point a bunch of friends and me decided we'd head up to the stands for the next couple of years, and getting in the noisy end was an 'away days only' thing.

There was a new 'closed' group that formed called 'Coastie Boys' to plan tifos and create new songs etc., and in 2009/10 (I think?) they did a fantastic job on tifos (seriously, if anyone can find a photo of the one with the field and the two-stick banners - that was our best ever) but the numbers really dwindled.

There was also a split between this site (formerly known as Marinators.net) and a new site (the Yellow Army) that didn't do us any favours. The support had been united but was now split between three places, just as Facebook kicked off as well.

The core organisation has never again been as united as it was between 2005 and 2008, and that's really hurt us.

I can't remember when the home end moved back to bay 16, but it started getting up again as the bandwagon built up under Arnie.

It's been up and down since. In good years (or even months) it's up, when we're shit it's shit. That's understandable too I think.

Personally, I feel at the moment the band is too dominant in the sound (e.g. there are frustrating things like when they sing "sha la lalala lala..." there's no f**king tune, and it drones on well after the singing stops because the fella on the trumpet takes the opportunity to play a long solo apparently to cover the fact that there's no f**king tune and nobody singing) and for much of last year the 'support' was waaaaaaaay too negative.

We were having a shit year, but singing against your team, singing against your manager and players and singing shit like "let's pretend we've scored a goal" when it's the last 10 minutes and we trail by one was enough for me to pull stumps.

But that's a mood thing - the mood of the bay will change, the involvement of the stands has been far better, and it's likely that there could be even more interaction between bay and stands if the club supported it.

I'm thinking more call-and-response stuff would work (one of our songs would be an absolute cracker with one tiny lyrical change for family-friendliness that has no negative effect), so there's stuff to do to build it up.

Apologies for the essay, but I thought it might be helpful to offer (one) historical perspective. There will certainly be others - don't take mine as gospel!

 

[midfielder]

D

I recall all that and how hostile the forum got at times... and I do wonder aloud with the current dispute between the Home Ends and stadium management and FFA;- if we were the club chosen to be the family club building its own training facilities to be showcased to the media.... because if I recall correctly Lyall was not all that helpful at the time seemingly siding with the stadium management ...

 

[dibo]

I don't understand what you're trying to say at all Middy.

 

[midfielder]

The current issues pertaining to Home Ends / Stadium Management/ Stadium Security has been around since the start of Hal and the Mariners example you explained what happened shows this ... further at the time our CEO was not all that supportive of the HE as I remember you may remember differently ... and out of left field in those early days FFA wanted to present a fresh family environment more than anything else and FFA of the day were happy to support the toning down of our HE

 

[dibo]

If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that the 'toning down' of the HE wasn't the issue, it was the allocated seats and the no concessions, plus the toxic negativity that followed a season of pretty crap form, then the splits and moves and all the other shit.

Mariners management had nothing to do with it*; we basically f**ked ourselves up.




*Not 100% true - there were some issues that eroded trust, confidence and enthusiasm, like a story I've heard where for the home semi against Newcastle someone was going to pay for 20,000 flags to be distributed inside the ground in our colours. It would've made the biggest colourful show ever, but as the flags had the logo of the guy paying for them and this would need clearing with FFA (as it was their event) the club would have to go in to bat for it, and they refused. Like I say, it's a story I've heard rather than something I was involved in so if I've got the details wrong, that's why. But at that time with the Marinators club there were regular meetings between the MC exec and management and things seemed to work pretty darn well, all told.

 

[FFC Mariner]

The decision to move active support to the front of the bay hurt badly and still does.

As for that band......

 

[dibo]

The decision to move active support to the front of the bay hurt badly and still does.

As for that band......

Might be worth moving everyone into one tight group again, for shits and giggles. Not sure what the do is with the band - when it works, great. When it doesn't...

 

[FFC Mariner]

The band think they are the stars. They arent

Away games are still >>>> home games where everyone comes together. Newcastle was as good as it's been for some time.

Sydney on boxing day will be better still

 

[dibo]

I think it does help at times, but a single trumpet would probably suffice.

 

[dibo]

seriously, if anyone can find a photo of the one with the field and the two-stick banners - that was our best ever

I wasn't kidding. These guys kicked arse:

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Personally I like the band. It's different I give you. But they seem to work hard and their hearts are in it. And when the bay has been down on numbers I think it's been great to still have some presence. Issues about right balance with the vocal support makes sense, so hope it's being discussed, not just brewing into resentment and snideness, which won't help anybody.

Re bay membership prices. Shaun, I think you guys have done a fantastic job with memberships this year, but I wonder if there's anyway to give a more heavily discounted 'Yellow Army' membership as an incentive? And as a reward I guess, as they typically spend the most coin in travel, tifos (and beer) and donate the most time. Be great if they were the cheapest seats - barring the junior footballers - mariners my club - one obviously.

We all know it adds value and is a source of pride and I' sure no one likes always reading people giving us crap about how poor they think our active support is.

I'd cop 10% more on my membership price to help subsidise our active support and bring the price of bay membership down. Idea could be submitted to the membership via email. Might be surprising how many members would feel the same if polled.

I'm sure there's a range of benefits you guys could come up with to help add value to the active supporter membership and look to help boost numbers.

FWIW, I thought our active support had made some solid strides these last 3 years. Dibo's right, call and response stuff is a definite highlight and is also educating people and grooming youngsters - far more people joining in now - so makes sense to do more.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I wasn't kidding. These guys kicked arse:

Yeah that was a kick ass tifo.

 

[Atomic]

Personally I like the band. It's different I give you. But they seem to work hard and their hearts are in it. And when the bay has been down on numbers I think it's been great to still have some presence. Issues about right balance with the vocal support makes sense, so hope it's being discussed, not just brewing into resentment and snideness, which won't help anybody.

I agree. I like the band and I think it makes our support unique.

My only negative comment is that they look like a rabble when they're playing the Game of Thrones theme at the start of the game. If the Club is serious about heralding the players onto the field, then something needs to be done about the band's outfits. Yes, the all wear the same shirt, but from a distance, they look like an extended family going home from a day at the beach. Board shorts, jeans, skirts, shoes, sandals, thongs... it looks pretty amateurish.

 

[nebakke]

The band think they are the stars. They arent

Huh? Wtf did that come from? I haven't seen anything to suggest that they think they're particularly better or more important than anyone else.
If anything, I tend to perceive the occasional noodling along, as a means to buy bay 16 a bit of time to breathe every now and then, while still keeping some noise going... It wouldn't be necessary if we had a bigger active support group, but we don't.... We did... But we don't...
As it is though, I don't see an issue with them at all - other than "Who do we sing for" and occasionally "Mariners clap-clap-clap" (which doesn't take up as easily as it used to) - the point when they start moving around the crowd and occasionally for the bridge-type-piece of Tetris are the only bits that seem to be able to raise SOME sort of noise... Sometimes I think we should get Peter Prior to walk in front with the bullhorn until everyone can chant along but I'll grant you, it turns into a bit of a production...

Either way, I think they've quickly becomes a positive... One of those things that's sort of specific to the Mariners and that's a positive
On the negative, is it just me, or does it feel like we give up a goal everytime "who do we sing for" starts? I SWEAR it makes us play worse

 

[nebakke]

FWIW, I thought our active support had made some solid strides these last 3 years. Dibo's right, call and response stuff is a definite highlight and is also educating people and grooming youngsters - far more people joining in now - so makes sense to do more.

I'm a gold member, so I don't sit with active support these days but, I have to say, my perception was that there was a bit of a swell in YA members last season - I noted a couple of guys around, talking about their experience of sitting with YA and seeing it as a bit of a party... I think that's a positive and probably a way to drive the increase, but I also think it takes a while to build stallwarts and that probably doesn't come without the results, unfortunately.
Anyway, my perception was also that the growth was down to the cheaper YA tickets as well as the results in the preceding seasons.

 

[Gratis]

Band works for me - I like the added noise and atmosphere and it'll grow and evolve.