Arabmariner
Well-Known Member
The only good thing about Canberra is the road out!thomas477 said:
I'd put a team in Coonabarrabran before Canberra!
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A-League Expansion
- Thread starter djebella
- Start date
I'd put a team in Coonabarrabran before Canberra!
bulldogmariner
Well-Known Member
You forgot Broken Hill
Auburn Mariner
Well-Known Member
I must disagree with you on Canberra as a place; I reckon it's a good town, easy to get around, with a good climate (remember, I am from Orange) and lots of things to do.
That being said, will the citizens of the ACT go for a third franchise after the Raiders & Brumbies? Not sure, although we should now be over comparing what happened in the NSL with the HAL.
GCU & NQU are a given, so there is 10 teams.
After that, what teams make the most sense from a NEUTRAL perspective?
Well, with the Bling, the Scum & us in NSW, does it really make sense for a second Sydney team or a team based in the 'Gong? I would suggest that is more practical for a second Victorian team, maybe based at Kardinia Park in Geelong or even Princes Park in Parkville (both obloid, but Melbourne has no large rectangular grounds).
If the FFA goes for a second Mexican team, it CANNOT have anything to do with South or Melbourne Knights, full stop. A Geelong side or a team named "Victoria....." would be much better.
So, let's say that the Mexicans get team 11.
This leaves us with team 12. A HUGE choice here, folks.
Again, trying to think of the game country-wide, we look at Tasmania, NSW or the ACT. Forget WA, SA, NT & Qld.
Option 1: a Tasmanian side based at York Park in Launceston. Forget Bellerive, it will have too many cricket bookings. York Park now hosts regular AFL games, and despite being obloid, does not have a cricket block. Can Tasmania support a professional franchise, given their poor record with previous attempts (the Tassie Devils in the NBL)? Tassie state colours of green & red.
Option 2: a 4th NSW franchise. Where (Wollongong, Penrith Stadium, Parramatta Stadium), will it be supported (Illawarra, YES, others, hopefully), does 4 NSW teams give these teams an advantage with much less travel? Maybe hoops (think Celtic, Parma, QPR) would be an option.
Option 3: ACT. Great, rectangular stadium with a superb surface, wealthy but flaky community, complete focus in summer months (very little cricket played at Manuka). Good ties into southern NSW, especially places like Wagga, Albury and the football hotbed that is Griffith. Raiders colours would be practical, we already have Brumbies colours.
Option 4: I'll throw one more in here. What about a team based out of Lancaster Park in Christchurch, maybe the Canterbury or Southern Orcas (the second of which means a game or two could be played at the House of Pain, aka Carisbrook, Dunedin). The naming of the Phoenix as "Wellington" instead of "NZ" leaves this option open. Christchurch has 300,000 fanatical people, a stadium undergoing massive renovation with a drop-in cricket block, and the opportunity of creating a MASSIVE derby with the 'Nix. This team would play in the traditional Canterbury colours of red and black.
The safest option would be a Victorian side, the riskiest the ACT, the boldest the Tassie side and the "so crazy it JUST might work" option is the South Island NZ team.
Stuff it, I vote for the Mexicans OR the NZ team. We will see.
That being said, will the citizens of the ACT go for a third franchise after the Raiders & Brumbies? Not sure, although we should now be over comparing what happened in the NSL with the HAL.
GCU & NQU are a given, so there is 10 teams.
After that, what teams make the most sense from a NEUTRAL perspective?
Well, with the Bling, the Scum & us in NSW, does it really make sense for a second Sydney team or a team based in the 'Gong? I would suggest that is more practical for a second Victorian team, maybe based at Kardinia Park in Geelong or even Princes Park in Parkville (both obloid, but Melbourne has no large rectangular grounds).
If the FFA goes for a second Mexican team, it CANNOT have anything to do with South or Melbourne Knights, full stop. A Geelong side or a team named "Victoria....." would be much better.
So, let's say that the Mexicans get team 11.
This leaves us with team 12. A HUGE choice here, folks.
Again, trying to think of the game country-wide, we look at Tasmania, NSW or the ACT. Forget WA, SA, NT & Qld.
Option 1: a Tasmanian side based at York Park in Launceston. Forget Bellerive, it will have too many cricket bookings. York Park now hosts regular AFL games, and despite being obloid, does not have a cricket block. Can Tasmania support a professional franchise, given their poor record with previous attempts (the Tassie Devils in the NBL)? Tassie state colours of green & red.
Option 2: a 4th NSW franchise. Where (Wollongong, Penrith Stadium, Parramatta Stadium), will it be supported (Illawarra, YES, others, hopefully), does 4 NSW teams give these teams an advantage with much less travel? Maybe hoops (think Celtic, Parma, QPR) would be an option.
Option 3: ACT. Great, rectangular stadium with a superb surface, wealthy but flaky community, complete focus in summer months (very little cricket played at Manuka). Good ties into southern NSW, especially places like Wagga, Albury and the football hotbed that is Griffith. Raiders colours would be practical, we already have Brumbies colours.
Option 4: I'll throw one more in here. What about a team based out of Lancaster Park in Christchurch, maybe the Canterbury or Southern Orcas (the second of which means a game or two could be played at the House of Pain, aka Carisbrook, Dunedin). The naming of the Phoenix as "Wellington" instead of "NZ" leaves this option open. Christchurch has 300,000 fanatical people, a stadium undergoing massive renovation with a drop-in cricket block, and the opportunity of creating a MASSIVE derby with the 'Nix. This team would play in the traditional Canterbury colours of red and black.
The safest option would be a Victorian side, the riskiest the ACT, the boldest the Tassie side and the "so crazy it JUST might work" option is the South Island NZ team.
Stuff it, I vote for the Mexicans OR the NZ team. We will see.
dru
Well-Known Member
For me it will be a second mexican team, they've given Queensland at least a second and possibly a third team that gives Qld derbies now it's time for the other state able to support it to be given one.
for the all important 12 place
Can't see a second NZ side working, Wellington is supposedly the most cosmopoliton place in NZ and the only place it was likely to work over there from talking to people over there. I also really don't like the idea of another NZ team taking a place away from an Australian team.
ACT I think could be an option but I don't know if it will be the strongest proposal that will come in. Would tie in well with the womans and Youth teams but both of theses I will say will be tied into the AIS. Can't really comment on Canberra being a good city or not, always avoid it on the way to the snow and the only time I've been is when Judo National titles were on and that was the same weekend as the V8's so it was always a pain to get around.
Tassie has serious questions over support, do we have an idea about the level of football participants in the state?
4th NSW team close to or in Sydney will come down to if they want 4 teams in NSW. Personaly I think one of the bids will get up. either the Wollongong or Penrith bid for me would be my preference. While Penrith is like our Northern neighbours it'll be supported as well as them IMHO. We know that Wollomgong will be supported so it will come down to te better bid me thinks
for the all important 12 place
Can't see a second NZ side working, Wellington is supposedly the most cosmopoliton place in NZ and the only place it was likely to work over there from talking to people over there. I also really don't like the idea of another NZ team taking a place away from an Australian team.
ACT I think could be an option but I don't know if it will be the strongest proposal that will come in. Would tie in well with the womans and Youth teams but both of theses I will say will be tied into the AIS. Can't really comment on Canberra being a good city or not, always avoid it on the way to the snow and the only time I've been is when Judo National titles were on and that was the same weekend as the V8's so it was always a pain to get around.
Tassie has serious questions over support, do we have an idea about the level of football participants in the state?
4th NSW team close to or in Sydney will come down to if they want 4 teams in NSW. Personaly I think one of the bids will get up. either the Wollongong or Penrith bid for me would be my preference. While Penrith is like our Northern neighbours it'll be supported as well as them IMHO. We know that Wollomgong will be supported so it will come down to te better bid me thinks
Will definately be a 2nd melb and syd team. That is clearly what is on lowys mind as he wants to push to a broader base in both those cities. After that it gets interesting.
I would hope a 2nd NZ team would be a chance, would be great if they could have a derby given the good support the nix have got.
Tas im not sure will happen but would be great given their complete lack of national exposure in sports bar cricket.
Canberra should be able to work a franchise.
Gong should not be ruled out if west syd get in as expected. The fact is nsw has almost 1/3 of australias total population. I dont think that 5 teams in nsw out of say 14/16 is overrepresented, it would probably only leave vic underrepresented with places like tas over represented.
I would hope a 2nd NZ team would be a chance, would be great if they could have a derby given the good support the nix have got.
Tas im not sure will happen but would be great given their complete lack of national exposure in sports bar cricket.
Canberra should be able to work a franchise.
Gong should not be ruled out if west syd get in as expected. The fact is nsw has almost 1/3 of australias total population. I dont think that 5 teams in nsw out of say 14/16 is overrepresented, it would probably only leave vic underrepresented with places like tas over represented.
As I've said before I'm not a big fan of the expansion idea as I don't think we have a big enough player pool to keep up the higher standard of the HAL over the NSL.
Having said that, if Uncle Frank wants it it will happen, so I'd vote for a 2nd Mexican team playing out of Geelong as 11 and either ACT or Gong as the 12th.
If this does happen and the HAL implodes from over expansion don't say I didn't warn you!
Having said that, if Uncle Frank wants it it will happen, so I'd vote for a 2nd Mexican team playing out of Geelong as 11 and either ACT or Gong as the 12th.
If this does happen and the HAL implodes from over expansion don't say I didn't warn you!
clarence
Well-Known Member
I'd say it would be OK to go to 10 teams by 2009/10 & see what happens if Australia qualifies for the 2010 WC and how that impacts upon the A-League in 2010 and beyond with crowd interest, TV rights. sponsorships etc.
Would be cautious going to 12 teams, but they must be screaming from the rooftops in Victoria about another Vic based team. But getting around those dickheads from South Melbourne and the like is another issue (and probably the reason a 2nd Vic. team hasn;t been talked up much).
But if we qualify for 2010 WC, the flow on effect turns out positive for the A-League, and there's a renewal of interest in the likes of Foxtel and Hyundai (or a replacement major sponsor? & more businesses wanting to get involved), and overseas Australians show an increasing interest in returning home because of what they've heard about the A-League (there is an increase in interest right now from these players), then we may be able to put the comp up to 12 teams by 2012.
Would be cautious going to 12 teams, but they must be screaming from the rooftops in Victoria about another Vic based team. But getting around those dickheads from South Melbourne and the like is another issue (and probably the reason a 2nd Vic. team hasn;t been talked up much).
But if we qualify for 2010 WC, the flow on effect turns out positive for the A-League, and there's a renewal of interest in the likes of Foxtel and Hyundai (or a replacement major sponsor? & more businesses wanting to get involved), and overseas Australians show an increasing interest in returning home because of what they've heard about the A-League (there is an increase in interest right now from these players), then we may be able to put the comp up to 12 teams by 2012.
Arabmariner
Well-Known Member
I don't think we should even have 1 NZ team in our league.Nothing against Kiwis but we should've had eight Australian teams...we are helping a potential world cup opponent to get their act together.Jesus said:
As much as I detest the place the capital of Australia should have a place ahead of the capital of NZ.
Derbies at West Sydney and Wollongong would be good from our point of view although I think a 2nd Melbourne team is almost inevitable.
Can't see Tassie getting a place for another 10 years.....2nd division perhaps.
Jesus,
This is a good point and imo the only that the HAL can be expanded without slipping back down to the NSL standards. Big Dylan is a prime example of the type of player that the league in general should target, why play in the second tier in Norway / Romania etc for more than a season or two, if you don't get picked up by a team from a top league or least top tier team in the ECL why bother!
My issue is that to attract this type of player back a bigger salary cap is needed which can not be funded by the clubs (look at the way people on this forum have moaned about the membership increases this season). The HAL has worked because the financial model and the concentration of players only being at 8 clubs.
This is a good point and imo the only that the HAL can be expanded without slipping back down to the NSL standards. Big Dylan is a prime example of the type of player that the league in general should target, why play in the second tier in Norway / Romania etc for more than a season or two, if you don't get picked up by a team from a top league or least top tier team in the ECL why bother!
My issue is that to attract this type of player back a bigger salary cap is needed which can not be funded by the clubs (look at the way people on this forum have moaned about the membership increases this season). The HAL has worked because the financial model and the concentration of players only being at 8 clubs.
clarence
Well-Known Member
People seem so intent on having another NSW based team. I don't like that idea even though it would benefit me with more games to see by driving there.
But if you must have another NSW based team how about combining the efforts of Wollongong, Canberra and Western Sydney, base it out at Campbelltown, and call it a "South Western NSW & ACT" syndicate? Covering all the area from western Sydney down to the 'Gong and out to Queanbeyan/Canberra. The problem with each of those areas (Wollongong, Canberra & Western Sydney) is that by the time they get a chance to bid for an A-League franchise, the amount of capital required to buy into the comp. might be too much for each of those regions individually or if they can buy in, may not be sustainable.
By combining those regions you can develop it into a powerhouse. Juniors from Penrith, Parramattta, Blacktown, Liverpool, Campbelltown, Sutherland Shire, Wollongong, Illawarra, Queanbeyan & ACT districts should give you a very decent Youth League team and Academy to develop from, and there are a number of businesses in those districts that could be sourced for sponsorships.
But if you must have another NSW based team how about combining the efforts of Wollongong, Canberra and Western Sydney, base it out at Campbelltown, and call it a "South Western NSW & ACT" syndicate? Covering all the area from western Sydney down to the 'Gong and out to Queanbeyan/Canberra. The problem with each of those areas (Wollongong, Canberra & Western Sydney) is that by the time they get a chance to bid for an A-League franchise, the amount of capital required to buy into the comp. might be too much for each of those regions individually or if they can buy in, may not be sustainable.
By combining those regions you can develop it into a powerhouse. Juniors from Penrith, Parramattta, Blacktown, Liverpool, Campbelltown, Sutherland Shire, Wollongong, Illawarra, Queanbeyan & ACT districts should give you a very decent Youth League team and Academy to develop from, and there are a number of businesses in those districts that could be sourced for sponsorships.
Arabmariner
Well-Known Member
Derby matches and the atmosphere they create with the larger away crowds they bring are the games that will keep people coming imo.clarence said:
Arabmariner
Well-Known Member
Now how would the song go........clarence said:
We love you South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we do
We love you South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we do
We love you South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we doooooo
Oh South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we love you!
clarence
Well-Known Member
Arabmariner said:
OK get your drift there, but at the moemnt the only 'derbies' - using your definition - that the A-League has is the Sydney- Central Coast-Scumcastle derbies.
The other teams are too far away from each other.
But Sydney - Melbourne have some spice, as do the Melbourne - Adelaide matches.
I'm sure the future Roar - Gold Coast matches will have a packed crowd if Football takes off on the GC and that also meets your definition of a derby too.
Pending on the success of the 'derby' model for Roar - Gold Coast and maybe bringing in the Townsville team too in their clashes with the other Qld based teams, I'd reckon it's time for a look at a Victorian derby. I don't know where the heartland of Football would lie in Victoria, but a Geelong based team or some other regional area close to Melbourne should have some spice to it?
I'm worried that having too many NSW or even an ACT team in the A-League will cause fans in SA and WA to get a little peeved having to come to NSW so many times each season, and cause claims of NSW biase.
Also, our NSW teams benefit from the lesser travelling costs of closer teams already, with them being within driving distance of each other, and that helps save those clubs a tidy sum each season. Meanwhile teams like Adelaide, Perth and Melbourne would have to travel to NSW quite frequently. That means that a NSW based team (and any more NSW based teams) would be more profitable in the largest market, while teams located in other cities with smaller markets have the burden of travel costs to bear.
Arabmariner said:Now how would the song go........clarence said:
We love you South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we do
We love you South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we do
We love you South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we doooooo
Oh South Western NSW & ACT syndicate we love you!
LOL, that's a mouthful, but I was thinking such a team with its geographical spread would be worthy of being called "Rangers" (across the Blue Mountains and Southern Ranges!). Fergie would love it!
nero
Well-Known Member
Its good to have 3 QLD teams ready to go next year(So as NSW doesn't have the largest amount).
But Victoria(Melbourne) needs a 2nd team before or at the same time as Western Sydney comes in.
After that, a South Coast team would be good, giving Sydney surrounding teams NorthSoEaWest.
But to pair with that team to make it 14 teams, it would be unfair to put Canberra in NSW/ACT too many teams. It would probably have to be Tassie or Geelong(Outside Melbourne team)
But Victoria(Melbourne) needs a 2nd team before or at the same time as Western Sydney comes in.
After that, a South Coast team would be good, giving Sydney surrounding teams NorthSoEaWest.
But to pair with that team to make it 14 teams, it would be unfair to put Canberra in NSW/ACT too many teams. It would probably have to be Tassie or Geelong(Outside Melbourne team)
It isnt about fair, it is about money. The fact is the population is heavily on the eastern seaboard. The fact is the tv ratings are heavily in nsw and then qld. Hence lowy wanting the qld teams, as well as a west sydney and another melb team.
ACT is not NSW. If act does not get a team will be due to lack of interest/finances. Though their team may be years away.
ACT is not NSW. If act does not get a team will be due to lack of interest/finances. Though their team may be years away.
midfielder
Well-Known Member
I think the extra four teams SB ....GC, 2 Sydney, 2 Melbourne team, and then either the gong or Nth Qld, at this stage I would prefer the gong over Nth Qld.
Bigger question is if 12 teams do you play 22 or 33 rounds. At 22 rounds we get a fair bit of media but 33 rounds plus finals and allowing for international weeks means a 43 week or thereabouts comp.
Is Hal ready to push further into the AFL & NRL seasons and if so do we finish latter or start earlier or maybe a bit of both.
Bigger question is if 12 teams do you play 22 or 33 rounds. At 22 rounds we get a fair bit of media but 33 rounds plus finals and allowing for international weeks means a 43 week or thereabouts comp.
Is Hal ready to push further into the AFL & NRL seasons and if so do we finish latter or start earlier or maybe a bit of both.
goingtoadisco
Well-Known Member
ACT could easily hold a team, my simple reasoning is that if the coast could do it then ACT can.
ACT has bigger population ( just over 300 000) but more importantly has a very large football supporter base.
As for the team being tied to the AIS, it wouldnt happen there might be a slight link but the AIS is focused on olympic talent identification and training.
ACT has bigger population ( just over 300 000) but more importantly has a very large football supporter base.
As for the team being tied to the AIS, it wouldnt happen there might be a slight link but the AIS is focused on olympic talent identification and training.
Atomic
Well-Known Member
Does anyone think that the Central Coast would have a hope in Hell of securing a licence had we not been included in the original 8 teams? The competition for spots in the A-league is so fierce nowadays. I think we owe Singo, Lyall, Lawrie and whoever else a HUGE debt of gratitude.
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