Western Sydney going ahead in 2013 (p2)

[scottmac]

Can we AFFORD to compete for players?

Even missing out on one potential star could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars. If we are to be a feeder club that on-sells players one non-deal has the potential to bankrupt the club

This is all asuming what type of club WS will be.

We play our youth in the first team and have attracted some of the better youth to NYL contracts because of it. Will who ever gets to coach WS utilize the youth at his disposal as we do? Would WS have entrusted an 18yr old untested GK in the circumstances we have?

We don't yet know what type of player policy WS will operate under. Sydney have only just started to play their youth (wonder why ). WS will have a marquee and will try to bring back big names to spark interest. Will they pepper the first 11 with youth? If they dont then the best youth will know that there is a place 90 mins north that does. They also have the best training facilities of the league (optimisim is a blessing ) and a culture which has been recently built on players just like them.

There is reason for the Mariners to worry but seriously the argument about transfers and being bankrupted by the loss of them is just plain funny. We sold 2 players this year and Mick & NB were up in arms about how bad it was for the team and that management had lost their minds and thrown our season down the toilet (couldn't be bothered going back over posts to retrieve quotes but that was the jist of it) now you 2 are again at the negativity train in regards to lost sales and potential bankruptcy due to WS taking all the youth and we wont be able to earn income off the better players. ???

I'm sorry but that is just funny. The only people we have sold to keep us afloat was a local & a reject ***EDIT*** (after re-reading that it is very harsh on RG but his value did sky rocket under Arnie with us) who we made into the transfer potnetials they were. If we had been kept afloat by the sale of a stream of Westrn Sydney youth it would hold water but its just not true. They make up the core of our team not our income. Not right now anyway, and if the plans they have for the COE come to fuition then thats a major tick in our box over any other team in the whole league let alone NSW. We may even be an alternative to the AIS for football and have the option on multiple teams in the NYL. Imagine a Mariners NYL team vs a COE NYL team. (once again optimisim is a blessing)

Things change. We have been lucky so far that SFC did not connect with this region and that they were left un-represented in the top flight. In the larger scheme of things one could even question the likelyhood of this team succeeding. FFA have been know to screw things up before haven't they.

 

[scottmac]

One other note. How can you be bankrupted by the non sale of a player you never get? :blink:

 

[adz]

I never said there would be no impact on our club, I just asked a question because all I ever hear from diehard Football people, especially around the time the World Cup bid was taking place, is about how Football is the most popular sport in the universe, most participation etc. etc. it is played around the world and AFL is insignificant and only played in 1 country.

So why is it the AFL can field 18 teams (with 10 based in Victoria) and Football can barely get enough players together to field half that? Keep in mind an AFL team is about double the size a Football team too, so that would be the equivalent of about 30 Football teams in the top flight.

???


Maybe the answer is this?

I'm finding the apparent determination from some to see only the downside in everything that happens in this league or this club to be extremely tiring. I used to think that SFCU was a chronic whinge-fest, but they've finished in 6th place and gone straight out of the finals and they're much more cheerful in general than this place. We could win the title and it'd still be a f**king funeral on here.

Some people appear to be intent on only spreading doom and gloom.

A couple of weeks ago it was "Talk to the club/coach/whoever and they will tell you what a shambles the COE is" but after a bit of research we find out it's all on schedule and going just fine.

Now this.

What will be next?

 

[scottmac]

I'm finding the apparent determination from some to see only the downside in everything that happens in this league or this club to be extremely tiring. I used to think that SFCU was a chronic whinge-fest, but they've finished in 6th place and gone straight out of the finals and they're much more cheerful in general than this place. We could win the title and it'd still be a f**king funeral on here.

QFT

Its unbelievable how negative a few have become. Like i said before the sale of Matt Simon was the death knell of our season to some. Now the non sale of a yet to exist youth player is the death knell of our club. What's next.

 

[nikko]

For a young boy staying with family who do everything for them living on the Coast is not preferred.

Musti, Bernie, Oates, Duke, Carceras and Matty Ryan all prefer to live at home over the beach and commute two hours everyday day to go up and back.

They would probably prefer not to commute.

Though Oates does live near the water on the Northern Beaches.

um, I think you find Bernie and Matty Ryan live at Norah Head champ

 

[marinermick]

Well, that's a big effort to go and pick Musti up from training everyday in Sydney and drop him back. They all commute together.

 

[Mumbles]

I think it will be interesting to see how the FNSW, NSWIS and West Sydney FC relationship pans out. FNSW has the grounds and development program SAP, NSWIS takes the cream of the SAP players in partnership with FNSW starting at U15's. If WSyd FC are tied in as well and I suspect they will be, the conveyor belt of talent will pass through them first.
Players will go where NSWIS tell them to go.

The SAP/NSWIS development program at VSP is possibly the best in the country.
Just my opinion!

 

[Nathan Byrn]

I think it will be interesting to see how the FNSW, NSWIS and West Sydney FC relationship pans out. FNSW has the grounds and development program SAP, NSWIS takes the cream of the SAP players in partnership with FNSW starting at U15's. If WSyd FC are tied in as well and I suspect they will be, the conveyor belt of talent will pass through them first.
Players will go where NSWIS tell them to go.

The SAP/NSWIS development program at VSP is possibly the best in the country.
Just my opinion!

ssshhhh your not allowed to be accurate with reality in this thread.

 

[elevated position]

ssshhhh your not allowed to be "accurate with reality" in this thread.

Some how in all this accurate in reality stuff where does Sydney FC come in??

 

[dibo]

I think it will be interesting to see how the FNSW, NSWIS and West Sydney FC relationship pans out. FNSW has the grounds and development program SAP, NSWIS takes the cream of the SAP players in partnership with FNSW starting at U15's. If WSyd FC are tied in as well and I suspect they will be, the conveyor belt of talent will pass through them first.
Players will go where NSWIS tell them to go.

The SAP/NSWIS development program at VSP is possibly the best in the country.
Just my opinion!

It's in FNSW's interest to build football everywhere, not just in the area near their HQ, and this is not something they ignore.

It's also worth remembering what the 'football population' of Sydney and surrounds actually looks like - where the player numbers are.

From 2010 player totals, you can break up the Sydney (plus Central Coast) players across the three clubs the following way:

Sydney Association: Sydney Players
Canterbury: 12552
Eastern Suburbs: 7092
Manly Warringah: 15945
St George: 7941
Sutherland Shire: 17541
TOTAL: 61071

Mariners Association: Mariners Players
Central Coast: 13301
Gladesville-Hornsby: 13281
Ku-Ring-Gai: 15364
North West Sydney Women: 2999
TOTAL: 44945

Unicorns Association: Unicorns Players
Bankstown: 6163
Blacktown: 9152
Granville: 12901
Macarthur: 8411
Nepean: 12527
Southern Districts: 8754
TOTAL: 57908

In terms of the reaching deeper into the well of potential supporters, thinking purely from the community engagement side of things, it would help SFC enormously I suspect.

SFC at the moment have to try to cover a participation base of over 100,000 players by themselves - the Mariners (sort of) cover an area of about 60,000 players (counting Granville, Gladesville Hornsby, Ku-Ring-Gai and North West Women's as Mariners territory in addition to Central Coast).

This is more in keeping with the situation in other areas, matching the clubs to the Member Federations we get:

Newcastle - FNNSW: 53k players.
Victory and Heart - FFV: 61k players.
Brisbane and Gold Coast - FQ: 70k players.
Adelaide - FFSA: 22k players.
Perth - FW: 33k players.

These numbers are all excluding country areas tee. If you were to include country areas as well, NSW has another 35k players.

If anyone ever wondered if there should be multiple Sydney clubs, or why it might be a good idea, the numbers tell the story. The game is simply a behemoth in Sydney.

This breaks up the community development task, it breaks up the talent ID and elite development task, it builds natural 'constituencies' for the clubs to oversee.

The thing to notice - contrary to received wisdom, 'western sydney' doesn't provide that an overwhelming majority of the area's players - Ku-Ring-Gai, Manly and Sutherland Shire are the 3 biggest associations, followed by Central Coast, Gladesville Hornsby and then finally Granville gives us a western sydney entry.

Football is probably proportionally stronger in the 'better off' areas along the east of the city. Look at the north east - Manly, Ku-Ring-Gai and Gladesville Hornsby/North West Women's - close to a third of the city's players play in these few associations.

The main upshot from West Sydney coming in is that the development and community engagement task gets a lot easier for Sydney FC, and proportionally everyone will be a bit better served. There'll be 50% more NYL spots to fill, which might soak up some of the kids that are coming through FNSW based programs but ending up elsewhere - Newcastle and interstate.

 

[Nathan Byrn]

That is an excellent GRASSROOTS synopsis.

 

[adz]

“ The community will have a say in the culture, colours, name and logo of the new entity and we will explore a model that would allow for community ownership".

How about "The Westies" with a checked flanno strip?

The race will definitely be on to claim the biggest bogan title! Westies vs Scum?

 

[adz]

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/a-league/mariners-not-afraid-of-fight-for-top-talent-20120405-1wfeb.html

Good link, I missed this one, kinda goes against what you're arguing though doesn't it?

hint:
Mariners not afraid of fight for top talent

THE chairman of the Central Coast Mariners, Peter Turnbull, knows the arrival of a western Sydney team has made his life harder in terms of mining the richest source of talent in the country, but he's not afraid of the competition.

'First and foremost, we support the concept of a western Sydney team,'' he said. ''It makes sense, and it had to happen. The whole competition is going to benefit. Obviously, we've been lucky enough to get some great players from the west over the years, and we're confident we'll still be able to compete for those players in the future. What it does mean is we're going to have to work harder on those relationships, which we're happy to do.''

The Mariners also have close relationships with three northern Sydney associations - Ku-ring-gai, Gladesville-Hornsby and Manly-Warringah - as well as strong scouting links in Wollongong and Canberra but, significantly, the arrival of a second Sydney team is likely to sharpen their focus closer to home. Last year, the Mariners became the only A-League club to field junior sides in a partnership with Central Coast Football which extends right down to under 11s. Last weekend, the club's under 18s eliminated the first grade side of Inter Lions in the first round of the Waratah Cup.

''We're pretty proud of the fact we have these junior sides,'' Turnbull said. ''It won't be long before we are producing more of our own, home-grown players.''

So... Turnbull says we can still compete for kids in Western Sydney. We can also recruit from other areas, including the Central Coast.

But that's not accurate or reality.

We're all doomed!

 

[dibo]

That is an excellent GRASSROOTS synopsis.

If its not relevant, try making a counter argument.

 

[marinermick]

Yes Adz, and what we see Peter Turnbull quoted in the paper is always reality and an accurate guage of what is really happening at the Mariners or what the staff have to deal with.

What else is he going to say in a public setting?

 

[dibo]

f**k this. I'm out. This is as much fun as a day in the dentist's chair.

 

[pjennings]

Yes Adz, and what we see Peter Turnbull quoted in the paper is always reality and an accurate guage of what is really happening at the Mariners or what the staff have to deal with.

What else is he going to say in a public setting?

It seems to me that Peter Turnbull sees the introduction of West Sydney as a reality, which it is, and is working to deal with it. Of course that course of action is a lot less effective than bitching and moaning on a website. :

 

[Mumbles]

ssshhhh your not allowed to be accurate with reality in this thread.

Oops! Sorry.

Most U15's SAP players were registered with NSWIS a couple of weeks before this announcement.
Maybe a coincidence?

Players from CC, Manly, Ryde area, Inter L, Marconi, Sutherland. The talent pool that trains/plays at VSP is quite substantial.

 

[Mumbles]

Some how in all this accurate in reality stuff where does Sydney FC come in??

Most youngsters don't see Sydney as a genuine opportunity unless you know someone.

Western Sydney will keep more young talent in the game. There's no reason why CCM can't get their share if they have competitive benefits to offer players. Doesn't always have to be money. Good coaches and mentors has greater value in the early years. Just an opinion.

 

[Mumbles]

One more slightly off topic but relevant to some comments.

A popular pathway for young Central Coast kids is Club, lightning (CCMA), Manly PYL, SAP, State, NSWIS and hopefully back to CCM.
You'd be surprised how many are on this bus as the current local pathway is seriously lacking. Another opinion. I wish it weren't true.