• Join ccmfans.net

    ccmfans.net is the Central Coast Mariners fan community, and was formed in 2004, so basically the beginning of time for the Mariners. Things have changed a lot over the years, but one thing has remained constant and that is our love of the Mariners. People come and go, some like to post a lot and others just like to read. It's up to you how you participate in the community!

    If you want to get rid of this message, simply click on Join Now or head over to https://www.ccmfans.net/community/register/ to join the community! It only takes a few minutes, and joining will let you post your thoughts and opinions on all things Mariners, Football, and whatever else pops into your mind. If posting is not your thing, you can interact in other ways, including voting on polls, and unlock options only available to community members.

    ccmfans.net is not only for Mariners fans either. Most of us are bonded by our support for the Mariners, but if you are a fan of another club (except the Scum, come on, we need some standards), feel free to join and get into some banter.

Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
Our kit, 10 year logo designed by fans in committee.
Really? First I've heard about it.

Funny, I watched the WSW fans build their club, saw all the polls, crest designs, strip ideas and could have voted on them myself if I'd been inclined. Everybody was included.

Mariners fan input is done via a secret skunk works committee. FMD. :rolleyes:
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
So is he saying that 6k. is break even at NSO because they get more corporate bums on the seats there? Is he saying that they sell more signage etc. at NSO than at CCS? Is he saying that the kit spaces are sold at NSO and not at CCS?
I think Bruce ought to be in politics. He cleverly ducked the question. If he was inferring that *because* of the outreach to NSO and other areas there *will* be more Corpses, LED signage and kit sales then why didn't he say that directly?

I don't really get it either.

There's a pretty big difference between having a marketing footprint and player catchment that is bigger than the Central Coast and diluting the core offering by moving games.

I think the marketing and catchment stuff is good - I've no doubt that it's got upsides all over it, but moving games is another matter. Are people in NS really going to think a club is 'theirs' because we take a couple of games a year there?

It seems from what he was saying that crowd numbers aren't really the issue anyway. But if we have an issue with not selling sufficient kit sponsorship, field and stadium and assorted other signage, player sponsorships and corporate hospitality then I'd be looking into some of the operational problems I've seen noted in this thread before moving games.

The thing that bothers me is that I've always remembered a little saying - tell the truth, it's the easiest thing to remember.

The story isn't consistent out of head office; be it Bruce or Mike or whoever else. It's crowd numbers then it's corporate. It's 11k break even then it's 9k. Grahame Park's too expensive then we're getting a good deal. It's like they can't remember what they told us last time. That makes me nervous.

It's not the mark of a candid, honest relationship with fans. It's the mark of an organisation giving excuses, not reasons.
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
.............and hes back. Sadder, worried and I think its all turning to shit.

I listened to the rambling podcast and it seemed like the only question he didnt want to answer was to confirm his boss's claim that we are moving 5 games to Sydney next season. This is twice now that I have had to listen to a waffling diatribe from the CEO (once at the fan forum) and he is less than impressive at convincing the audience of his transparency and honesty.

There is a great comment posted on their FB page:

Management has not been able to negotiate the toxic problems currently existing with Central Coast Football whose registered players and parents/family are big part of the local demographic.It appears they "fixed" the problem by ignoring it and moving the Mariners academy to Northbridge FC.They are also having obvious problems with local attendance at Central Coast Stadium Mariners games so as a solution they are in the process of moving home games to Sydney venues.Management seems to be "running" from any developing problems as a short term solution.I have been a Mariners supporter since their inception and hold a current gold membership along with my family .I will always support the Mariners in anyway I can but only while they remain on the Central Coast.
 

ccmjack

Active Member
Seems to be try to soften the blow for a big changes and the future of CCM. Lived on the coast for 26 years and I have seen team sports come and go (Gordon RU , Stingrays RU and the Northern Eagles) all tried to relocate here all failed , CCM started here and have been successful but for whatever reason we seem to be headed the same way. Its a simple answer IMO you have to be entertaining and win matches and to do that you need good players as draw cards and a good coach that will give the fans what they wont SUCCESS and the fan base will return . All this costs money until we find a endless supply of money I fear we might not have a club playing on the Central Coast. I will not follow a team with our name and logo playing away from the coast.
 

Capt. Awesome

Well-Known Member
I just posted it on the CCM twitter feed. Maybe everyone with twitter accounts should do this as well. We need to do something to stop this nonsense.

I found this part interesting:

"And the locals have fed the Mariners for the last 10 years. Average home attendance over the decade is about 9500. Here's a sample list of European clubs who do about the same, or worse: Monaco, Evian, Genclerbirligi, Zulte Waregem, AIK Stockholm, Heracles Almelo, PEC Zwolle, Lillestrom, Aalborg, Getafe, Grasshoppers Zurich, Lierse, Panathinaikos, Vitoria de Setubal, Boavista."
 

MrCelery

Well-Known Member
Central Coast Mariners will never have a future in Sydney
November 28, 2014 - 10:00PM
Michael Cockerill

Central Coast Mariners have as future. The question is whether that future is with Mike Charlesworth. The Englishman who owns the club seems hell-bent on a course that, at the very least, is fraught. But this is not only about the Mariners. There are much wider implications, of which the FFA seems aware.

Consider this. Charlesworth's plan to shift more games to North Sydney, and/or possibly Brookvale, would effectively make the Mariners the fourth Sydney team by stealth.

We already know we'll have a third team in Sydney sooner rather than later, with the Sutherland Shire leading the race. Charlesworth is already planning to have four games at North Sydney Oval next season, almost one third of his fixture list.

Whether the Brookvale option is instead of, or in addition to, I'm not sure. But if you add a game or two on the northern beaches, you may as well get rid of the Central Coast moniker. It's the Northern Eagles catastrophe all over again.

So would the FFA approve of this? Highly unlikely. There is nothing in the FFA's expansion strategy to cater for four teams in Sydney, at least not for the foreseeable future.

Charlesworth must know this but is forging ahead nonetheless. North Sydney Council is coming to the party with some minor improvements to the oval but let's be frank, it will never be A-League compliant on a full-time basis, not without the money the council doesn't have and the money no other level of government is prepared to give.

And that's supposing the residents, and the heritage lobby, won't stand in the way, which we know they will with all their might.

There are other issues, of course. Everyone knows Melbourne Victory are playing at NSO under sufferance next Friday night. Amateur players play on cricket squares all the time but the professionals don't. Drop-in wickets? Northern Spirit tried it briefly in the NSL but were quickly undone by the prohibitive costs.

Which raises perhaps the most perplexing point of Charlesworth's master plan. Does he really think he'll make money taking games to North Sydney? Even if he paves Miller Street with free tickets to pump up the crowd against the Victory, that's got no value in the long term.

The Mariners might be getting cheap rent at NSO but that reflects the facility. Charlesworth already has the cheapest rent in the A-League. Lawrie McKinna is the mayor of Gosford these days, as well as an ambassador for the Mariners. Big Lawrie tells me the rent at Central Coast Stadium is a paltry $7500 a game, and he would know.

So why alienate your supporters, your city, your region, by making it clear you'd rather be somewhere else? Didn't the Mariners try that in a previous life by taking some games in Canberra? What was the reaction then from the Central Coast football community? They voted with their feet, as they're doing again this season with all the talk of North Sydney. It's called biting the hand that feeds you.

And the locals have fed the Mariners for the last 10 years. Average home attendance over the decade is about 9500. Here's a sample list of European clubs who do about the same, or worse: Monaco, Evian, Genclerbirligi, Zulte Waregem, AIK Stockholm, Heracles Almelo, PEC Zwolle, Lillestrom, Aalborg, Getafe, Grasshoppers Zurich, Lierse, Panathinaikos, Vitoria de Setubal, Boavista.

Fifty per cent of the Turkish Super Lig clubs do worse than the Mariners, 75 per cent of the Swedish Allensvenskan clubs do worse. Every league has big and small clubs, rich and poor. Such is life.

The point being, for a catchment area of about 350,000 people, the Mariners have done well at the turnstiles. They could do even better if the connection between the club and the community wasn't fraying at the edges. When that relationship was at its strongest, the Mariners averaged 15,000 a game.

Of course Charlesworth doesn't like losing money but chasing a rainbow in Sydney is less likely to bring him a pot of gold than putting down roots in his own backyard.

Ultimately, the core issue for the FFA as it considers growing the league is what role does it see for smaller, regional centres. Look around at cities such as Geelong, Hobart, Townsville, Wollongong, Canberra, Sunshine Coast and Cairns – all of which have expressed interest in joining the competition – and you see similar populations to Central Coast.

And if the FFA confines the league to the capital cities then there is no hope for genuine expansion. That would be a mistake. It's in everyone's interest to make sure the Mariners work. The Central Coast Mariners, that is.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Just hope his stupid mistake of quoting an insane stadium hire figure does not detract from the article ... Mike the $ 7, 500 was never the rent if it was we would not be going to NSO ...

Other than that a brilliant article ....
 

Roy Law

Well-Known Member
Just hope his stupid mistake of quoting an insane stadium hire figure does not detract from the article ... Mike the $ 7, 500 was never the rent if it was we would not be going to NSO ...

Other than that a brilliant article ....
Not according to Lawrie McKinna
 

Roy Law

Well-Known Member
It is an excellent article, touching on very relevant points, by an occasionally maligned journo who knows, and cares about, his football.
I particularly liked "The point being, for a catchment area of about 350,000 people, the Mariners have done well at the turnstiles. They could do even better if the connection between the club and the community wasn't fraying at the edges. When that relationship was at its strongest, the Mariners averaged 15,000 a game
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
It is a very telling *public* criticism by Mike Cockerill of Mike Charlesworth's push into the Northern Sydney area. And as you all say above it's repeating what many have been saying here since the Canberra days (thanks dibo, that was an interesting read of that old forum thread you posted).
There's another article today by Dominic Bossi http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...lans-for-youth-academies-20141128-11w7c0.html which is worth a read too. It has a table which gives registered player numbers by district sourced from Football NSW, which I have put in order of magnitude:

Sutherland 17,463
Manly 15,755
Granville 14,428
Canterbury 13,655
Gladesville Hornsby 13,492
Central Coast 12,969
Nepean 11,784
Northern Suburbs 11,784
Macarthur 8,813
Southern Districts 8,592
Bankstown 6,423
Eastern Suburbs 6,042
NW Sydney Womens 2,787

We are mid table here, not too dusty on it's own. It becomes obvious why Charlesworth wants to push into Northern Sydney when you see the two big carrots of Manly 15,755 and Gladesville Hornsby 13,492 (which is nearly the Ryde Hornsby area that was mentioned in the recent podcast by Bruce S.) totalling 29k. and if added to Central Coast totals 41k. or so. What a potential powerhouse that would be. So unless stopped by FFA I can (begrudgingly, very begrudgingly) see why he is doing the NSO/Brookvale push. As discussed before those two venues are the only two (nearly) suitable for football between City & Parramtta on the North side.
It looks like it will all depend on what direction FFA decides it will allow Charlesworth to go.
 

Paolo

Well-Known Member
Just hope his stupid mistake of quoting an insane stadium hire figure does not detract from the article ... Mike the $ 7, 500 was never the rent if it was we would not be going to NSO ...

Other than that a brilliant article ....
Just some of the places the $7500 figure is quoted including from our mayor. Add to that there has never been a denial from the club that it isnt the rent, Bruce even went as far to say rent isnt an issue in the podcast and stated the deal was fair. It just adds to the mixed messages between MC and the club. Further to this monique marks posted on Lawries status with this article that rent was as low as $5k for a large period that the stadium was controlled by singo which is essentially a free ride. This in itself may be MCs gripe that theres been a 50% increase in yet from previous years.

https://twitter.com/LawrieMcKinna/status/537134515445956608

http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au...h-sydney-for-reintroduction-of-w-league-team/

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/central-coast-mariners-eye-more-games-in-sydney-20131125-2y67b.html

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/al...or-central-coast-mariners-20131218-2zlgn.html
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
The assumption (from me among others) was that there had to be something missing as the number was too low to be feasible. Turns out it's really cheap.
 

Online statistics

Members online
22
Guests online
243
Total visitors
265

Forum statistics

Threads
6,794
Messages
396,092
Members
2,747
Latest member
Michaelitato
Top