The end is nigh - impending doom - Moss out etc thread

[dibo]

Macca is back in Oz. Is their season over or has his contract expired?

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/mcbreen-a-league-tougher-than-china/df4bx17exa6c1wr2er6r0jab4

Your contract with Shanghai SIPG ends at the end of this campaign. What’s left in the professional playing career of Daniel McBreen?

DM: I’m unsure at the moment. There's big things happening with the club with reports our sponsor will be taking over the club as owner and bringing in a new, well known foreign coach. Until this is confirmed and completed contract talks are on hold. I'd still like to think I have a few years left in me. Maybe play I will play until I'm 40 if the body holds up and I'm still contributing.

 

[nebakke]

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/mcbreen-a-league-tougher-than-china/df4bx17exa6c1wr2er6r0jab4

From the comments on CoastFM, their season is over and his contract is expiring... So both I guess

 

[Wombat]

A serious question. What exactly is Moss trying to do purely from a technical football perspective?

He has been stating a lot lately that he has changed the entire system and its going to take time for it to work. He compared us to Adelaide at the start of last season and also to the period when Arnie first took over the Mariners saying that it took WeeMac 6 months to get used to that style..

So what is he trying to do? I'd love it if anyone has any analysis on this in regards to formation and style. Because if I can see where we are meant to be heading I'll be able to see if we are progressing.

Hard to see any Rhyme or reason so far. The Mantra appears to be keep possession at all costs. It's been a dogs breakfast thus far.

 

[Wombat]

From Arnie's time, there have been are three formations that we use at different phases. One to play out, one in possession higher up the park and one in defence. They're very set and predictable, so everybody knew their jobs. Moss is adding to that with different options in attack and defence and changing slightly the way we play out. Not everyone knows the roles 100% yet, and squad rotation isn't really helping (though it will help us in the last month of the season when we're again going to be playing lots of games with limited recovery and everyone will need to know their roles).

Playing out from the keeper:
------------------1------------------
------3-----------6-----------4------
--2----------8----------10--------5--
------7-----------9-----------11-----

Dates back to Arnie's era. In past years, option 1 has been to try to play to 3, 6 or 4 directly and have them able to turn, face forward and get us going up the park. With Mat Ryan, this got mixed up with occasionally hitting pinpoint passes to 7 or 11 on halfway to then attack with a quick counter.

What's new (relatively) is that because Reddy doesn't have Ryan's feet, we've taken that option out, and we are much more rigid with the short game. It's more difficult to play and we're mucking it up sometimes, but Brisbane do it well and have three championships to show for it and Adelaide do it too.

I think Mossy wants us to persist - Reddy is no less naturally talented with his feet than Galekovich, there's no reason why it can't work for us. We want the opponent to come on and press high so we can pass in behind, but we're not getting it quite right.

Ball in possession higher up the park:
------------------1------------------
-------------3----------4------------
--2---------------------6---------5--
-------------8-----------------------
------------------10-----------------
------7-----------------------11-----
------------------9------------------

Again, same as with Arnie. Hutch leans left, Monty leans right, we try to get fullbacks linking with wingers and 8 and 10 offer quick wall-passes to open up the flanks as we get behind the opposing fullbacks. Hutch is the quarterback - he steers the team around.

Yesterday when Monty was replaced by Trifiro, 8 moved higher:
------------------1------------------
-------------3----------4------------
--2---------------6---------------5--
-------------8---------10------------
------7-----------------------11-----
------------------9------------------

This changed the way they had to defend us, and gave us a little more flexibility. I can see us using it again.

Defensive block:
------------------1------------------
--2----------3----------4---------5--
--7----------8----------6--------11--
------9-----------------------10-----

Same as with Arnie. We don't give a flying if the opposing CBs have the ball unless they're actually advancing up the park with it. 9 and 10 get interested if the ball goes to the fullback. Say it goes to their left back: 9 will close off the bail out pass to the CB and 7 and 8 squeeze in to get them to cough the ball up.

What's new is that we've been changing this up occasionally with a really high press to force errors:

------------------1------------------
-------------3----------4------------
--2----------8----------6---------5--
------7-----------10----------11-----
------------------9------------------

I think the reason is simple - it's easiest to win the ball back within 5 seconds of losing it. If we can press hard and win it, we will, but if we can't we drop back into the block. City exposed this a few times where they were able to take advantage of broken play to get in behind 2 and 5 particularly, but we also got some chances out of it.

In all, with the change to playing out and the change to how we press, we're actually playing a less controlling, tight game than under Arnie, but looking to trust ourselves to either pass our way into positions to score or steal opportunities through pressure. We're going to have to move the ball better though, and make fewer mistakes.

Very well written but I'm a bit confused by 2 and 3 playing alongside each other and other positioning of our fullbacks and centre backs in some of the situations you have quoted??

 

[dibo]

Generally the fullbacks (2 and 5) are pushing a little higher to offer an outlet. This opens up room for CBs (3 and 4) to split and 6 drops between.

 

[Wombat]

Ok. Confused by your numbers. 2 and 3 are usually the fullbacks. Again...good analysis.

 

[Einstein]

No 2 and 5. 3 and 4 are centre backs.

 

[dibo]

Ok. Confused by your numbers. 2 and 3 are usually the fullbacks. Again...good analysis.

Sorry, schooled in FFA curriculum - there's a set numbering pattern for the 4-3-3 and it's what we teach all coaches and all kids.

*Most* teams in the A-League play something that's fairly closely related to it:

It's either with 'two 6s' (as we usually play it):
------------------1------------------
--2----------3----------4---------5--
-------------8----------6------------
------------------10-----------------
------7-----------------------11-----
------------------9------------------

...or 'two 10s' (as Brisbane usually play it):
------------------1------------------
--2----------3----------4---------5--
------------------6------------------
-------------8---------10------------
------7-----------------------11-----
------------------9------------------

 

[Bladesman]

From Arnie's time, there have been are three formations that we use at different phases. One to play out, one in possession higher up the park and one in defence. They're very set and predictable, so everybody knew their jobs. Moss is adding to that with different options in attack and defence and changing slightly the way we play out. Not everyone knows the roles 100% yet, and squad rotation isn't really helping (though it will help us in the last month of the season when we're again going to be playing lots of games with limited recovery and everyone will need to know their roles).

Playing out from the keeper:
------------------1------------------
------3-----------6-----------4------
--2----------8----------10--------5--
------7-----------9-----------11-----

Dates back to Arnie's era. In past years, option 1 has been to try to play to 3, 6 or 4 directly and have them able to turn, face forward and get us going up the park. With Mat Ryan, this got mixed up with occasionally hitting pinpoint passes to 7 or 11 on halfway to then attack with a quick counter.

What's new (relatively) is that because Reddy doesn't have Ryan's feet, we've taken that option out, and we are much more rigid with the short game. It's more difficult to play and we're mucking it up sometimes, but Brisbane do it well and have three championships to show for it and Adelaide do it too.

I think Mossy wants us to persist - Reddy is no less naturally talented with his feet than Galekovich, there's no reason why it can't work for us. We want the opponent to come on and press high so we can pass in behind, but we're not getting it quite right.

Ball in possession higher up the park:
------------------1------------------
-------------3----------4------------
--2---------------------6---------5--
-------------8-----------------------
------------------10-----------------
------7-----------------------11-----
------------------9------------------

Again, same as with Arnie. Hutch leans left, Monty leans right, we try to get fullbacks linking with wingers and 8 and 10 offer quick wall-passes to open up the flanks as we get behind the opposing fullbacks. Hutch is the quarterback - he steers the team around.

Yesterday when Monty was replaced by Trifiro, 8 moved higher:
------------------1------------------
-------------3----------4------------
--2---------------6---------------5--
-------------8---------10------------
------7-----------------------11-----
------------------9------------------

This changed the way they had to defend us, and gave us a little more flexibility. I can see us using it again.

Defensive block:
------------------1------------------
--2----------3----------4---------5--
--7----------8----------6--------11--
------9-----------------------10-----

Same as with Arnie. We don't give a flying if the opposing CBs have the ball unless they're actually advancing up the park with it. 9 and 10 get interested if the ball goes to the fullback. Say it goes to their left back: 9 will close off the bail out pass to the CB and 7 and 8 squeeze in to get them to cough the ball up.

What's new is that we've been changing this up occasionally with a really high press to force errors:

------------------1------------------
-------------3----------4------------
--2----------8----------6---------5--
------7-----------10----------11-----
------------------9------------------

I think the reason is simple - it's easiest to win the ball back within 5 seconds of losing it. If we can press hard and win it, we will, but if we can't we drop back into the block. City exposed this a few times where they were able to take advantage of broken play to get in behind 2 and 5 particularly, but we also got some chances out of it.

In all, with the change to playing out and the change to how we press, we're actually playing a less controlling, tight game than under Arnie, but looking to trust ourselves to either pass our way into positions to score or steal opportunities through pressure. We're going to have to move the ball better though, and make fewer mistakes.

Great analysis and have to agree the key challenge to playing the way we do at the minute is our ability to play out from the back. The challenge though with the team as it stands is not just with the difference in quality of distribution of the Goalkeeper and defenders it is there is no one offering the options in front, our midfield is very static and even if we do get it forward to the midfield we often end up going backwards and sideways for a fair few passes before losing it again because we have no options forward.

I thought we looked a lot better against Melb City in providing options moving forward but still have some challenges getting forward in numbers when we do open teams up. quite often when we got in behind them there was no one in the box to cross to.

The other challenge is we do not have a player with an X-Factor at the minute, the player that can take on players and open up space or deliver a ball the cuts out the opposition players and creates space. Our cross field switches that used to work so well with Patrick hitting them with his accuracy and pace on the ball are now big hoofs, no where near as accurate with far too much height that allow the defenders to either easily intercept or be right on top the the receiver by the time the ball gets to them.

I was very confused as too why Rose was played at Centre Back being one of the worst markers in the club and Poscoliero at right back given he was starting to look solid in with his defending but also his distribution has certainly been impressive. Only reason I can thing of is to have a left/right foot combination at Centre half to try and open up the switch to both sides.

Pressing wise in transition from attack back to defence I think we have been very poor this season, we have not pressed the ball at all just fallen back into our defensive structure but far too deep and allowed teams to come at us that has meant we have given away a lot of free kicks and corners where we have been punished as well as making it far too easy for teams to get shots on goal.

Still needs a lot of work but was an improvement over the previous games.

 

[dibo]

Great analysis and have to agree the key challenge to playing the way we do at the minute is our ability to play out from the back. The challenge though with the team as it stands is not just with the difference in quality of distribution of the Goalkeeper and defenders it is there is no one offering the options in front, our midfield is very static and even if we do get it forward to the midfield we often end up going backwards and sideways for a fair few passes before losing it again because we have no options forward.

The static movement partly comes down to not playing out as well as we'd like - players aren't game to gamble energy on a run that might be wasted as we turn over possession two passes before they get the ball. When we trust our possession we get more adventurous, fullbacks press on, defensive lines get stretched, space opens up. This flows through to...

The other challenge is we do not have a player with an X-Factor at the minute, the player that can take on players and open up space or deliver a ball the cuts out the opposition players and creates space. Our cross field switches that used to work so well with Patrick hitting them with his accuracy and pace on the ball are now big hoofs, no where near as accurate with far too much height that allow the defenders to either easily intercept or be right on top the the receiver by the time the ball gets to them.

The spaces are easier to find if we are already moving forward. When you've got runners, you find space. No runners, no space. Space comes from good passes to good movement, and if the movement isn't there because the initial building blocks aren't there...

I was very confused as too why Rose was played at Centre Back being one of the worst markers in the club and Poscoliero at right back given he was starting to look solid in with his defending but also his distribution has certainly been impressive. Only reason I can thing of is to have a left/right foot combination at Centre half to try and open up the switch to both sides.

Yeah, the left/right combo was my thought too. Otherwise Rose at RB and Poscoliero with Anderson seemed a no-brainer.

Pressing wise in transition from attack back to defence I think we have been very poor this season, we have not pressed the ball at all just fallen back into our defensive structure but far too deep and allowed teams to come at us that has meant we have given away a lot of free kicks and corners where we have been punished as well as making it far too easy for teams to get shots on goal.

Still needs a lot of work but was an improvement over the previous games.

The deep block 4-4-2 has been our standard since 2010/11 and maybe even earlier, but what's changed is that we try to push higher sometimes, and the transitions are a little more difficult.

 

[Ted]

Bosnar is the new scapegoat, this forum works fast. Good news for Hutch

Nope my view on him has not changed, never was a fan of him to begin with.... We need players that 'fit' the team, not the other way around. MM is another example IMO

 

[dibo]

Which post are you replying to Ted?

 

[Ted]

Ahh sorry mate. edited my post...

 

[style_cafe]

The last few games have seen an improvement in selections ,play & attitude.
It just makes me think where we would be sitting on the table if we had a decent preseason, (without trialling players) when we should have been settling our first 11 into their roles.

 

[Capt. Awesome]

Man, Moss is lucky not to have owners like Brisbane do

Mulvey gone

 

[nearlyyellow]

Man Moss is lucky not to have owners like Brisbane do

Mulvey gone

Source?

Brisbane are owned by a Malaysian syndicate, aren't they?

EDIT: http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...131772356?nk=e626c5221900306209613a34495a96c5

 

[Capt. Awesome]

Its all over the inernets

http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...eries-of-defeats/story-e6frf4gl-1227131772356

 

[nearlyyellow]

Ya beat me Capt. I was compiling the post when you posted the link. Geeze, bloody tough imo. I voted Yes he was hard done by! But, if the reports that he has lost the dressing room as well as key BC staff, then I guess he's stuffed.

 

[nearlyyellow]

Ahh, yes, BC are owned by an Indonesian syndicate.

 

[sydmariner]

Man, Moss is lucky not to have owners like Brisbane do

Mulvey gone