Rd 15 vs Western United

[Tevor]

What is it about backing up from a win that makes us so horrible? Are we getting hopelessly out coached because we execute the game plan that worked the week before and it gets picked apart?
Are we simply lucky whenever we get a win and unjustly raise our expectations?
Do the players get complacent with their starting positions and relax?

First two for mine, I don't think it's from the players getting complacent as we have not been favourites to win on many if any occasions this season.

All the wins have been nail biters and we have needed some luck which you will get throughout a season and you have to capitalise which we have. I watch a lot of HAL games and there are no other teams where we would be a clear favourite, even against the Scum. If we manage 5 or 6 wins this season it will probably be a pass and hopefully enough to keep us off the bottom. Next four games we play Roar, Wanderers, Scum and Adelaide. This stretch will define the season, we need to lift like everyone of these four games is a sudden death final as all four of these teams will view our game as a very good chance of 3 points. Especially WSW who will be a on a bounce back from a bye and Babbel's sacking, I've already scratched this one off as a win on this basis. So now it's three games.

There have been a few games where Staj has been handed a good lesson and I'm not surprised as it is his first year in the HAL and with what resources he has at his disposal. Definitely the best we have had since Arnie IMO. We wouldn't be any better off with any other coach in the HAL with the team we have IMO.

 

[true believer]

couldn't be bothered reading through all the posts.there just to full of butt hurt.
get over it . it went to shit that quickly nothing could be done .
they had time and the players to plan for us . from the start bershia's goal is top shelf in any league.
hats off to them and on to the roar .

can't wait for saturday . expecting a win .

 

[Big Al]

Rudan did a good job coaching against us.

Exposed Mill_r to some speed which he probably hasn’t had to deal with that much.

They used the cut back on u effectively as well.

That said we conceded a screamer of a first goal and some bad defense compounded with rotten luck on the next two. On another day Rowles saves the day.

The attack was and has been a problem all season. We just don’t look likely

 

[true believer]

miller got skinned a few times against the tards as i have said previously said .
it's a steep learning curve against some real quality .

 

[Josho Howe]

I feel a bit sorry for Kye. Conceding 3 OG's in 2 games has gotta be gut wrenching and tough to take. Add in the disallowed goal last week and he's had an absolute bludger. An off game and frustrating for sure but we just need to shake this off quickly and focus on the next game because that's a bigger game. To avoid the spoon, we need to beat the teams around us. Brisbane are bloody average and very beatable.

 

[Ozhammer]

Well that was 90 minutes and a whole chunk of moola we will never get back I guess, so just as well Geelong is a pleasant enough place to spend a weekend.

Reflecting on the game, I feel that Staj going in with the same formation and largely the same tactics as last weekend played into WU’s hands too much. Then add in the fact they were coming off the bye and desperate for a win to restart their campaign and the mountain was too much for our boys. 20 minutes of mediocrity put the game out of reach and has to be discussed and reviewed thoroughly. The main thing that disappointed me yesterday was the general lack of desperation, especially in defence but which was also apparent in other areas, with WU seeming to want every ball twice as much as we did.

The reality is that the level of players we have will typically need to play out of their skins to win games and anything less is likely to result in a loss. At the moment Staj simply doesn’t have the cattle to promote a dominant/winning game plan and that must be frustrating for him, what with so many square pegs in round holes and some players not performing as well as they could/should.

As others on here have already said, the rest of the season is likely to be a bit of a roller coaster but hopefully there can be more ups than downs.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Oar has had 4 games at LB from what I can see on a quick check. Of those 4 we won 2. We wanted Clisby out and he did it. I agree Oar isnt the answer and we need to look to bring someone in but blame that on being inflexible isnt right. Any less time and it would be kneejerk reactions and not giving the squad time to adapt.

In other aspects sure we need to change things up but as far as left back goes he has made changes to address the issue but with little squad depth how much can he do?

Mostly agree but I’m guessing FFC is referring to not bringing in Hatch?

I don’t see how Hatch could do a worse job defensively than Oar. And is he really that far behind the revelation that is Miller? In pre season Hatch stood out more tbh. Obviously Oar offers more in attack, though I can’t stand all the over hit floaters. But defence would improve and Hatch has serious pace and could be our LB of the next 3 years if we develop him.

 

[turbo]

Mostly agree but I’m guessing FFC is referring to not bringing in Hatch?

That’s a fair call but it’s also easier with hindsight. I think there’s an expectation both from fans and club management to play your senior players so squeezing both Miller and Hatch in over a short period might have been a step too far especially if they didn’t perform. Now Staj has tried something else and it’s not really working so perhaps that makes it a bit easier to put an alternative forward.

Agree on the floaty crosses too. They just aren’t dangerous enough, easy to defend and if we do get on them we rarely generate enough power to get a solid header on target.

 

[Ads]

At this level players position and play the ball in fashion that they are told to do so by the coach -

Tommy Oar:
Last 2 weeks he has been more gassed as he is covering way more area, by the time he gets to crossing area he has lost his pace to take on then put in harder, lower cross.
Most his crosses he was still being marked and got the ball around a defender.
And at the end of the day I believe he continued to cross because he was told that was his main focus/job as an advancing wing back.

The holes are also there on the counter in defence as both fullbacks are high too early rather than just 1 fullback on the side the ball is being played.

DDS: De Silva is dancing on the ball 60% more than usual as I feel he has been told he is to hold up the play and wait for others to arrive.
But instead of traditionally shielding the ball he dances, and to be honoust would waste a whole lot more energy in doing so.
And as mentioned he does miss the odd quick pass to those coming through but generally he has f**k all options because movement off the ball is average at best.
Why?
The players are gassed because they are overlapping into positions that are not needed, not letting the ball do the work, and chasing counter attacks (defending from behind) rather than advancing due forward/pushing, sliding and jockeying due to easy dispossession and poor confidence in passing forwards.

Kim: His starting in the back and staying there is also instruction to steady the ship for the first 20/30 min to give that passing confidence and make the other team work (didn’t work last week)
Then he is told to change to move forward as we go behind to try and change or steady the middle. Also not really working as it’s to late.

So as much as the performance of the players hasn’t been great, I still believe with Kim, Duric and DDS at the core we should be doing a lot better as ball players and play makers.
The key problems that we have all pointed out I believe to be tactical decisions by the coach.
I can see why he has implemented maybe 2 of 3 of these but the main call out is that players need to hold their area more.

I would like to see for 2 games that our back 4 stay in position and not move forward until way inside opposition half or only on set pieces. Let the mids stay in the middle and work the ball.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

At this level players position and play the ball in fashion that they are told to do so by the coach -

Tommy Oar:
Last 2 weeks he has been more gassed as he is covering way more area, by the time he gets to crossing area he has lost his pace to take on then put in harder, lower cross.
Most his crosses he was still being marked and got the ball around a defender.
And at the end of the day I believe he continued to cross because he was told that was his main focus/job as an advancing wing back.

The holes are also there on the counter in defence as both fullbacks are high too early rather than just 1 fullback on the side the ball is being played.

DDS: De Silva is dancing on the ball 60% more than usual as I feel he has been told he is to hold up the play and wait for others to arrive.
But instead of traditionally shielding the ball he dances, and to be honoust would waste a whole lot more energy in doing so.
And as mentioned he does miss the odd quick pass to those coming through but generally he has f**k all options because movement off the ball is average at best.
Why?
The players are gassed because they are overlapping into positions that are not needed, not letting the ball do the work, and chasing counter attacks (defending from behind) rather than advancing due forward/pushing, sliding and jockeying due to easy dispossession and poor confidence in passing forwards.

Kim: His starting in the back and staying there is also instruction to steady the ship for the first 20/30 min to give that passing confidence and make the other team work (didn’t work last week)
Then he is told to change to move forward as we go behind to try and change or steady the middle. Also not really working as it’s to late.

So as much as the performance of the players hasn’t been great, I still believe with Kim, Duric and DDS at the core we should be doing a lot better as ball players and play makers.
The key problems that we have all pointed out I believe to be tactical decisions by the coach.
I can see why he has implemented maybe 2 of 3 of these but the main call out is that players need to hold their area more.

I would like to see for 2 games that our back 4 stay in position and not move forward until way inside opposition half or only on set pieces. Let the mids stay in the middle and work the ball.

Sorry, just to be clear Ads, you’re not saying Tommy is routinely over hitting his crosses because his coach told him too? You’re saying he’s doing it because he’s gassed? But he’s been overhitting his early balls as well long before he’s tired. And he’s doing it regardless of whether it’s on the end of 70 metre or 10 metre run. He’s also regularly butchered them when he’s not under serious pressure to beat the first man.

I agree that he’s almost certainly been told to do what he’s doing, but the quality of his crosses is on him. Personally, I don’t think he’s trying to hit a target, he’s just putting them in to the general area, and players are always better when trying to hit an actual target imo. He is however doing a great job of always making a yard for himself.

Can’t agree on DDS. He’s physically very talented but there’s just no getting away from the fact that he makes terrible decisions. To be fair, probably wouldn’t be in yellow or even in Oz if he was a more intelligent footballer.

I want players like him to express themselves, but I don’t read always takes too many touches as he’s been instructed to hold it up. And while I agree our movement could be much better off the ball, he also does it often as not when there’s a simple ball that can be played or there is a run.

Modern football... I think you need your fullbacks to threaten if you want to create overlaps, get in behind, and also play out. But you have to get the balance right and Miller is very young, Oar is a mid, and Clisby was Clisby. So I’m not sure if Staj is asking too much or it’s just the players he has can’t cope yet.

 

[Ozhammer]

Sorry, just to be clear Ads, you’re not saying Tommy is routinely over hitting his crosses because his coach told him too? You’re saying he’s doing it because he’s gassed? But he’s been overhitting his early balls as well long before he’s tired. And regardless of it’s on the end of 70 metre or 10. Metre run. He’s also regularly butchered them when he’s not under serious pressure to beat the first man.

Somewhat ironically, what was arguably his most effective cross (the one which led to Muzza’s bicycle kick) was put in with his right foot.....

 

[Ads]

Yes I’m definitely agreeing that he shouldn’t have been putting in cross after cross but believe that was his instructed job.

I’m definitely in agreement that he should be cutting more, or looking for other opportunities.

And also agree with DDS, he is naturally talented but like any player he needs confident and talented players to run off him. And he doesn’t have that.
Not saying he’s a superstar by any means but with Kim and Duric somewhat around him they should or could be doing a lot more sexy forward or 1/2 passing than what we have seen.

 

[Dodz]

Sorry but I disagree completely. Staj is one of the best things to come to this club in quite a number of years. People seem to forget the fact that we are already at the points total of the entire last season.

Last season we got the spoon, not a very high bar .
Points comparison to last year don’t matter when you’re at the bottom of the league
So you’ll be ok with the spoon as long as we get more points!

We don't seem to have a plan B or C

 

[Dodz]

Is that your first post?
Its up their with the most stupid debuts.
Welcome to the forum anyway Scummer.

Not my first post
Stupidest comment has to be Staj saying he was happy/content with 0-3 loss to Perth

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Yes I’m definitely agreeing that he shouldn’t have been putting in cross after cross but believe that was his instructed job.

I’m definitely in agreement that he should be cutting more, or looking for other opportunities.

And also agree with DDS, he is naturally talented but like any player he needs confident and talented players to run off him. And he doesn’t have that.
Not saying he’s a superstar by any means but with Kim and Duric somewhat around him they should or could be doing a lot more sexy forward or 1/2 passing than what we have seen.

Yeah totally agree.

 

[Ozhammer]

Not my first post
Stupidest comment has to be Staj saying he was happy/content with 0-3 loss to Perth

Don’t take Wombat’s comments to heart Dodz, he means well but had obviously been on the cooking sherry when he reacted.

Everyone sees things a little differently and we are each entitled to our own viewpoints. After all, isn’t that the whole point of a forum?

It’s good to have you as part of the discussion and sometimes the debate can be robust as you might have already noticed!

 

[Wombat]

I think we need to bring Fox back into the middle and switch Rowles to the left.

 

[turbo]

I think we need to bring Fox back into the middle and switch Rowles to the left.

Back 3 or 4 and who makes way for him?

 

[scoober]

Back 3 or 4 and who makes way for him?

Pretty sure that would suggest Oar out of LB. I'd prefer to keep as is and put Fox in for Ziggy as he has been a liability at the back, he sits very deep behind the rest of our backline and is sloooooow.

 

[Ads]

Fox not on the squad list for Brisbane.
Not even on the outs list