Piss Ants V Mariners

[Ancient Mariner]

As I understand it VAR was introduced to help officiate, correcting human error, and fixing mistakes made by refs that were causing upset to fans, causing controversies and taking away from the game experience.
As far as I can see it has done the opposite.
It has multiplied human error, only sometimes corrected mistakes, it has increased controversies and upset to fans and by its continuous interruptions massively taken away from the game day experience.
The trial is clearly an expensive failure.
Put the money towards goal line technology which so far has proven to be useful tech overseas and get rid of Brenton Speed and other commentators who play countless replays to see if the refs made a hairline incorrect decision or not.

 

[turbo]

As I understand it VAR was introduced to help officiate, correcting human error, and fixing mistakes made by refs that were causing upset to fans, causing controversies and taking away from the game experience.
As far as I can see it has done the opposite.
It has multiplied human error, only sometimes corrected mistakes, it has increased controversies and upset to fans and by its continuous interruptions massively taken away from the game day experience.
The trial is clearly an expensive failure.
Put the money towards goal line technology which so far has proven to be useful tech overseas and get rid of Brenton Speed and other commentators who play countless replays to see if the refs made a hairline incorrect decision or not.

Goal line technology is horribly expensive. It’s been looked at here before but the cost of the FIFA approved solutions is too great to put in to 12+ stadiums.

VAR is still in a teething period globally and I don’t see it going away. Processes need to be refined and locally we need to realise that tech can’t fix an operator problem.

 

[scoober]

Goal line technology is horribly expensive. It’s been looked at here before but the cost of the FIFA approved solutions is too great to put in to 12+ stadiums.

VAR is still in a teething period globally and I don’t see it going away. Processes need to be refined and locally we need to realise that tech can’t fix an operator problem.

There should be 1 ref responsible for VAR, they sit in a room in the same city every game and make the decisions.

 

[Big Al]

As I understand it VAR was introduced to help officiate, correcting human error, and fixing mistakes made by refs that were causing upset to fans, causing controversies and taking away from the game experience.
As far as I can see it has done the opposite.
It has multiplied human error, only sometimes corrected mistakes, it has increased controversies and upset to fans and by its continuous interruptions massively taken away from the game day experience.
The trial is clearly an expensive failure.
Put the money towards goal line technology which so far has proven to be useful tech overseas and get rid of Brenton Speed and other commentators who play countless replays to see if the refs made a hairline incorrect decision or not.

Correcting human errors with a human. What could possibly go wrong

 

[turbo]

There should be 1 ref responsible for VAR, they sit in a room in the same city every game and make the decisions.

We do have a regular VAR ref but no 1 person is always going to be able to cover every game.. And if only one person can do a job that's the organisation's problem to resolve.

 

[bikinigirl]

Correcting human errors with a human. What could possibly go wrong

. the current sentiment may suggest correcting human errors with corporal punishment

 

[scottmac]

So, say the ref awards a penalty for handball. VAR sees that there's a difficult to spot deflection before, one that would nullify the handball. Or any one of a thousand things where it might not be obvious at first what the issue is.



Pings the ref, puts it on the screen. Ref is standing there thinking 'I have no idea what I'm supposed to be looking at here, what are you wasting my time for?'.

The VAR needs to put forward their observations otherwise the ref may not even be looking at the right thing.

Imagine being the VAR that calls for something that's difficult to spot on video. Poor example Capn. Nothing like that should be called back. How many times do missed deflections go for corners or goal kicks?
If the ref can't see it then that's on them. They are the match official. You look at the incident a second time to see if you'd make the same call.

 

[turbo]

Imagine being the VAR that calls for something that's difficult to spot on video. Poor example Capn.

I agree with Capn. Sideline video is less than ideal compared to the VAR bunker and not communicating the issue will add delays or confusion. The problem is people not tech or process.

 

[marinermick]

I agree with Capn. Sideline video is less than ideal compared to the VAR bunker and not communicating the issue will add delays or confusion. The problem is people not tech or process.

Actually the problem IS the tech or process because it is so reliant on human judgement.

You are just swapping one human call to another human call in a system designed to reduce human error. Therefore the tech is flawed.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Originally VAR was to correct obvious errors.
1st pen. Obvious dive, VAR should have over turned it. Yellow to Mauk
2nd pen. No obvious error. Home team pen. Suss but I can see it.
3rd. Ref was right there and didn't give it. No obvious error.

So VAR was required to work once. They get 1 pen.

The key is the word obvious

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Originally VAR was to correct obvious errors.
1st pen. Obvious dive, VAR should have over turned it. Yellow to Mauk
2nd pen. No obvious error. Home team pen. Suss but I can see it.
3rd. Ref was right there and didn't give it. No obvious error.

So VAR was required to work once. They get 1 pen.

The key is the word obvious

I thought the 2nd was more of an obvious dive than the first, to be honest - though on the first I thought our guy got a touch on the ball.

Absurd that the MRP doesn't suspend a player who publicly admitted to diving.

 

[turbo]

Actually the problem IS the tech or process because it is so reliant on human judgement.

You are just swapping one human call to another human call in a system designed to reduce human error. Therefore the tech is flawed.

Officiating a game is reliant on human judgement that's the nature of the job unless it's something that's black and white like offside where given the right inputs tech could do it automatically.

You put processes and technical aids in place to support the people element knowing that mistakes will get made. That's what VAR is. If people don't follow the processes and guidelines given that's not a problem a system can resolve that's a people problem.

In our example the first penalty should not have been awarded, IMO it warranted review as a clear and obvious error yet none was forthcoming. The tech works, the processes are established and have been used without issue many times. That operator error means they either need more training or better operators.

 

[turbo]

I thought the 2nd was more of an obvious dive than the first, to be honest - though on the first I thought our guy got a touch on the ball.

Even if he missed Tongyik didnt move in to his path and block him, nor did he leave a careless foot out.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Edit- nevermind, my recollection of the call was clouded by rage.

I'm still pissed off too.

 

[turbo]

I'm still pissed off too.

Updated my post again. I initially said he hit him in the torso but it was more hip/upper leg after I reviewed it. Still he had no where to go and every right to be there challenging for the ball even if he didnt get it (which I think he did).

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Officiating will never be 100% correct. In football there has always been and always will be ref errors. It has developed into a beautiful free flowing game immensely successful and supported worldwide.
Referees have assistants on each side of the field and may have a goal line assistant to help with goal decisions.
The fans complain after the match about perceived errors and boo the ref as he leaves the field. It is a part of the game.
If you want to improve officiating develop truly professional referees to match the development of the competition.
Technology can help to correct mistakes but if you want to go down that path look at the code of football where technology is successful American football.
Personally I am not prepare to sit for 4 hours to watch a 90 minute game.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I'm still pissed off too.

I never want to watch any part of that game again.

 

[pjennings]

Officiating will never be 100% correct. In football there has always been and always will be ref errors. It has developed into a beautiful free flowing game immensely successful and supported worldwide.
Referees have assistants on each side of the field and may have a goal line assistant to help with goal decisions.
The fans complain after the match about perceived errors and boo the ref as he leaves the field. It is a part of the game.
If you want to improve officiating develop truly professional referees to match the development of the competition.
Technology can help to correct mistakes but if you want to go down that path look at the code of football where technology is successful American football.
Personally I am not prepare to sit for 4 hours to watch a 90 minute game.

That is the real problem with VAR. You change the game, and people's reaction to it completely. I'm happy to boo a ref as he comes off the field when he stuffs up. but let him do it as it happns time with assistance from his sideline assistants.

Going back and forensically looking at 'selected' angles does not help officiate the game.

If you persist with VAR then the VAR should only be able to tell the ref that he may want to look at an incident - no commentary. Then let the ref see all angles - but only once in real time. No cropped images, no slomos, no replays. The game is played in real-time - it should be officated the same way

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

That is the real problem with VAR. You change the game, and people's reaction to it completely. I'm happy to boo a ref as he comes off the field when he stuffs up. but let him do it as it happns time with assistance from his sideline assistants.

Going back and forensically looking at 'selected' angles does not help officiate the game.

If you persist with VAR then the VAR should only be able to tell the ref that he may want to look at an incident - no commentary. Then let the ref see all angles - but only once in real time. No cropped images, no slomos, no replays. The game is played in real-time - it should be officated the same way

And - others may disagree - but while the first 2 penalties should not have been given in the first place, I felt like the VAR not overturning them was the bigger travesty.

Given live, you know that mistakes happen in the heat of the moment, sometimes a referee's angle makes something look different....heck, the first one, you could probably imagine that Fielding thought there was much more significant contact than there was.

I remember a dive that I spotted and cautioned the player - this one was easy because I could see daylight between the two player's feet. But i remember thinking afterwards that if my position was 5 metres to either side I wouldn't have seen that and probably would have thought there was contact and given the foul.

If we had no VAR and ended up with the 2-2 draw from the bullshit penalties, we'd be pissed at the ref for 2 shit penalties but move on. f**kups happen.

VAR doesn't get away with the excuses the referee has. VAR is supposed to have the benefit of not dealing with having to make a decision with limited vision, in a split second, while fatigued, stressed and dehydrated with all the on-field pressures and human factors affecting decision-making processes.

Without VAR, that game wouldn't have looked fix. With VAR, it absolutely did.

I don't think VAR has improved the decisions - I still think it has reduced accuracy - but either way, it's made the game look worse and ruined the flow.

 

[Big Al]

Originally VAR was to correct obvious errors.
1st pen. Obvious dive, VAR should have over turned it. Yellow to Mauk
2nd pen. No obvious error. Home team pen. Suss but I can see it.
3rd. Ref was right there and didn't give it. No obvious error.

So VAR was required to work once. They get 1 pen.

The key is the word obvious

Exactly what Strebre should have said.