National Youth League Fixtures and Mariners youth team discussion

[pinklady]

Who started on the left side over Kekeris?

Front three were Lachlan Wales, Josh Bingham and Trent Buhagiar, with Powell at 10.

 

[scottmac]

Front three were Lachlan Wales, Josh Bingham and Trent Buhagiar, with Powell at 10.

Kekeris would have to be unlucky not to start from how he went in pre season

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

 

[Football nut]

Steve Whyte signs for Olympic Fc in Brisbane with Ben Cahn.

 

[Football nut]

Did anyone go to the game today who could give a summary of the match? How did Trent, Bingas and Berry go? Were there stand outs?

 

[priorpeter]

Got done 1-0. Definitely had the better of the chances but couldn't hit the back of the net - a few decent saves from THB, combined with the woodwork and poor finishing keepeing the Mariners scoreless. Berry did quite well and on another day could've had a couple of goals. Bingers' movement was much better than it has been at senior level. Young number 6, Jordan Nisbit(?), came on at half time and looks a handy prospect - despite only being about 4 foot 3

 

[Wombat]

So shafting Ben for Sully is going really well?

Clowns.

 

[pinklady]

So shafting Ben for Sully is going really well?

Clowns.

What do you actually base that on other that an irrational dislike of Sully?
Ben was a good coach and very popular but probably for a very good reason. The discipline within the team off the park last year was very disappointing and is one of the reasons that many of the players are not there this year and have moved on to NPL clubs. Note that none of the players released last year have been snapped up by other NYL teams.
On Sunday the team lost 0-1 to Sydney FC. There were four players from last year's NYL squad playing (Adam Pearce, Lachie Wales, Gianni Stenseness and Peter Kekeris). The last time we played Sydney FC (in January) with Ben in charge we lost 0-3. There were EIGHT players from the Sydney team on that occasion that played on Sunday.
Our biggest problem is being able to create chances and converting them when we do. Sully is trying to get the boys to play like the A League and the stats on our passing accuracy definitely back that up. We had 8 players on Sunday whose passing accuracy was over 85%, Sydney had 0 (except for Ben Koop who came on for two minutes and made 1 successful pass).
Also keep in mind the average age of the team is much lower this year and is geared towards to long term development. Last year 11 of the 18 man squad were born in 1996 or 1997. This year we have a more balanced spread of 97, 98, 99 and 2000 born players meaning there should be much less turnover each year.
Will the results be better? Maybe - maybe not, doesn't really matter.
Will we produce more better quality players - probably in the long term.
Is Ben a better coach than Sully? Depends on what criteria you want to use.
To call Okon a clown for replacing one with the other reflects more on the person making the comment than the one making the decision.

 

[priorpeter]

What do you actually base that on other that an irrational dislike of Sully?
Ben was a good coach and very popular but probably for a very good reason. The discipline within the team off the park last year was very disappointing and is one of the reasons that many of the players are not there this year and have moved on to NPL clubs. Note that none of the players released last year have been snapped up by other NYL teams.
On Sunday the team lost 0-1 to Sydney FC. There were four players from last year's NYL squad playing (Adam Pearce, Lachie Wales, Gianni Stenseness and Peter Kekeris). The last time we played Sydney FC (in January) with Ben in charge we lost 0-3. There were EIGHT players from the Sydney team on that occasion that played on Sunday.
Our biggest problem is being able to create chances and converting them when we do. Sully is trying to get the boys to play like the A League and the stats on our passing accuracy definitely back that up. We had 8 players on Sunday whose passing accuracy was over 85%, Sydney had 0 (except for Ben Koop who came on for two minutes and made 1 successful pass).
Also keep in mind the average age of the team is much lower this year and is geared towards to long term development. Last year 11 of the 18 man squad were born in 1996 or 1997. This year we have a more balanced spread of 97, 98, 99 and 2000 born players meaning there should be much less turnover each year.
Will the results be better? Maybe - maybe not, doesn't really matter.
Will we produce more better quality players - probably in the long term.
Is Ben a better coach than Sully? Depends on what criteria you want to use.
To call Okon a clown for replacing one with the other reflects more on the person making the comment than the one making the decision.

Oh, hey there Mrs Sully

 

[Wombat]

What do you actually base that on other that an irrational dislike of Sully?
Ben was a good coach and very popular but probably for a very good reason. The discipline within the team off the park last year was very disappointing and is one of the reasons that many of the players are not there this year and have moved on to NPL clubs. Note that none of the players released last year have been snapped up by other NYL teams.
On Sunday the team lost 0-1 to Sydney FC. There were four players from last year's NYL squad playing (Adam Pearce, Lachie Wales, Gianni Stenseness and Peter Kekeris). The last time we played Sydney FC (in January) with Ben in charge we lost 0-3. There were EIGHT players from the Sydney team on that occasion that played on Sunday.
Our biggest problem is being able to create chances and converting them when we do. Sully is trying to get the boys to play like the A League and the stats on our passing accuracy definitely back that up. We had 8 players on Sunday whose passing accuracy was over 85%, Sydney had 0 (except for Ben Koop who came on for two minutes and made 1 successful pass).
Also keep in mind the average age of the team is much lower this year and is geared towards to long term development. Last year 11 of the 18 man squad were born in 1996 or 1997. This year we have a more balanced spread of 97, 98, 99 and 2000 born players meaning there should be much less turnover each year.
Will the results be better? Maybe - maybe not, doesn't really matter.
Will we produce more better quality players - probably in the long term.
Is Ben a better coach than Sully? Depends on what criteria you want to use.
To call Okon a clown for replacing one with the other reflects more on the person making the comment than the one making the decision.

Sully was a flop before when teamed with the most clueless Coach the Mariners ever had....and i dont mean Warmsley. I dont know the bloke and he is apparently a lovely bloke. But you dont replace an excellent coach with a novice if you want success.

I expected us to struggle and so far it has proved true. I will watch a few games and let you know if i can see any positives. Last year I saw ALOT of positives.

I'm always hopeful.

 

[Yoda]

What do you actually base that on other that an irrational dislike of Sully?

Our biggest problem is being able to create chances and converting them when we do. Sully is trying to get the boys to play like the A League and the stats on our passing accuracy definitely back that up. We had 8 players on Sunday whose passing accuracy was over 85%, Sydney had 0 (except for Ben Koop who came on for two minutes and made 1 successful pass).

Passing % = nothing when you don't score goals, ask Arsene Wenger.

 

[Yoda]

Final home game of the very short Youth League competition.

 

[Woollybutt]

Surely the point of a youth team is to develop players for the first team. Without transfer fees and a pyramid structure like in England the only way the academy can pay for itself is by developing players for the first team in the hope that they'll either get a big transfer overseas or become a first team regular. As good as Cahn's results were there still seemed to be too big a gap between youth team and A-League, Peterson being the best example. I'm happy to be corrected by people who watch every youth match, but when the announcement was made about Cahn my assumption was that it was because players weren't developing in the way the club expected. You can be an excellent coach and get great results by building a team with a strong structure, but a first class youth coach needs to develop players as individuals and to fit into the first team's structures when required. The fact that Okon turned to Wales, Kekeris, and Kuipers for this month, rather than trying to grab a more experienced player on a short-term contract, suggests to me that he's happy with the development going on at youth level. It was also said back when Sully was appointed that the focus for the NYL season was going to be on performance and development rather than results, so I think it's much too early to judge the decision.

 

[Woollybutt]

Sully's comments when he was appointed: "This year is a transition year for our youth structure in regards to performance vs results. It’s crucial that we use the FNYL to implement our playing style, make sure the players understand the key principles associated with the Hyundai A-League team and physically develop those players.The PlayStation 4 NPL season will be where focus will be more on results, we will use that because there’s promotion/relegation where you need to win some games. There will be a higher focus on winning in that space than there necessarily will be in the FNYL which is purely about closing the gap and aligning with our Hyundai A-League team." https://www.ccmariners.com.au/news/mariners-youth-team-coaches-squad-fixtures

 

[Wombat]

Fair bit of wank being spoken.

Ben Cahn was a great Football coach but didnt babysit the players enough...WTF!

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

Wales has mostly been developed by Cahn, Kekeris also played for Cahn, Kuipers was in his team as well.

 

[Woollybutt]

Where did you get babysitting players from? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a youth team to develop players for the first team. It's pretty well established around the world that results aren't the be all and end all for youth football, the development of players always takes precedence so that they can make it as professionals, and sometimes that means sacrificing results to focus on individual development or installing a particular way of playing. EG, it's pretty common for young players to be played out of position to improve specific aspects of their game. Playing your gun winger who never tracks back at fullback so he develops the defensive parts of his game isn't going to improve your chances of winning a youth match, but it's going to give him a much better chance of making it as a professional. I have no doubt that Cahn is a great coach, but that doesn't mean he's the best fit for a youth coaching job. You can't judge youth football on results alone.

 

[Woollybutt]

Wales has mostly been developed by Cahn, Kekeris also played for Cahn, Kuipers was in his team as well.

But they weren't really knocking on the door of the first team last year, and neither were any of the older youth league guys. That's not to say their development this season is down to a new coach, just that no one was ready to step in straight away last season, which suggests that the gap between academy and first team was too big. Wales is the furthest ahead at the moment, but that seems to have come from training with Okon and the first team.

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

But they weren't really knocking on the door of the first team last year, and neither were any of the older youth league guys. That's not to say their development this season is down to a new coach, just that no one was ready to step in straight away last season, which suggests that the gap between academy and first team was too big. Wales is the furthest ahead at the moment, but that seems to have come from training with Okon and the first team.

I wouldn't say the gap has gotten closer though, Ryan Peterson played nearly the same amount of time as Wales has, and Wales was only given his opportunity because of injuries and Trent being away. Trent Buhagiar made his jump to the first team under Ben Cahn and he is arguably our most successful academy player in a while. Adam Berry moved from being an academy player to a first team player under Cahn. Kekeris is only being given an opportunity because Pain is injured and Kuipers because of Josh Rose's suspension. Steve Whyte made match day squads and the bench, Recce Papadimtros made match day squads, as did Brian Jamba during the Walmsley era. Cahn developed plenty, there aren't many players ready to jump straight up from academies around the country especially when we are often third or fourth choice in NSW.

 

[Wombat]

Surely the point of a youth team is to develop players for the first team. Without transfer fees and a pyramid structure like in England the only way the academy can pay for itself is by developing players for the first team in the hope that they'll either get a big transfer overseas or become a first team regular. As good as Cahn's results were there still seemed to be too big a gap between youth team and A-League, Peterson being the best example. I'm happy to be corrected by people who watch every youth match, but when the announcement was made about Cahn my assumption was that it was because players weren't developing in the way the club expected. You can be an excellent coach and get great results by building a team with a strong structure, but a first class youth coach needs to develop players as individuals and to fit into the first team's structures when required. The fact that Okon turned to Wales, Kekeris, and Kuipers for this month, rather than trying to grab a more experienced player on a short-term contract, suggests to me that he's happy with the development going on at youth level. It was also said back when Sully was appointed that the focus for the NYL season was going to be on performance and development rather than results, so I think it's much too early to judge the decision.

Your assumption was incorrect.
Cahn was sharfted due to nepotism....no other reason.