Most important Car in 100 years

[marinermick]

Shirt shopping......

surely he doesn't buy those shirts

they must be hand-me-outs from mates and now they are just taking the piss

 

[serious14]

For his sake I hope so.....

*hides collection of Hawaiin shirts*

 

[Redline]

For his sake I hope so.....

*hides collection of Hawaiin shirts*

Can't hide it from me mate..I remember you in Hawaiin shirts, shorts, thongs, hair, about 30 kg lighter .... Dr Seriousnecki.

 

[Jimmy]

where's dr karl when you need him

He was asked a question relating to the hydrogen cars the other day on Triple J, he mentioned he wasn't read up on the situation.

I think the question was regarding what would happen with all the extra water in the atmosphere from the car emissions.

 

[dibo]

where's dr karl when you need him

He was asked a question relating to the hydrogen cars the other day on Triple J, he mentioned he wasn't read up on the situation.

I think the question was regarding what would happen with all the extra water in the atmosphere from the car emissions.

there wouldn't be any extra water, if anything there'd be slightly less (some otherwise existing water would be temporarily held as hydrogen and oxygen before being recombined). but seriously - go to terrigal, look east. we're not exactly short of water.

 

[Redline]

Yeah I remember that one. I don't recall what his answer was though. It's probably on the podcast.

 

[Jimmy]

Yeah I remember that one. I don't recall what his answer was though. It's probably on the podcast.

He related his "I don't know" answer to 9/11. He mentioned that when all the planes were taken out of the sky over the U.S. which meant there were no vapour trails in the sky, it made the temperature rise up by 3/4 of a degree or something.

 

[Redline]

Yeah I remember that one. I don't recall what his answer was though. It's probably on the podcast.

He related his "I don't know" answer to 9/11. He mentioned that when all the planes were taken out of the sky over the U.S. which meant there were no vapour trails in the sky, it made the temperature rise up by 3/4 of a degree or something.

That's right. And he said something along the lines of the pollution is helping keep temperatures down or something. lol

 

[skilbeck]

the fact of the matter is the covalent bonds that hold hydrogen and oxygen together in water are very strong and to do it on a large scale requires a lot of energy, much more than is currently used. there would need to be some novel catalytic approach to separating hydrogen and oxygen to do it today, as for solar panels, i reckon youd need to coat vast amounts of the earths surface with them for there to be enough incident energy absorbed for this to happen. the only other way i could see it happening would be with the development of a clean nuclear approach i.e. fusion power, antimatter-matter annihalation, though these two technologies are years off, if at all possible

 

[skilbeck]

Was thinking about what Skillbeck said about the hydrogen fuel cell technology.

Why has the fuel company gotten involved with hydrogen? And selling it, even if only for a trial? These maggots are profiteering everyone with petroleum prices now, why give them hydrogen to use as well?

IF a car could be made to take the water from the 'exhaust' of the hydrogen car and put the water through a process of separating the hydrogen from the oxygen, with an apparatus mounted say in the boot, the car would be almost self sufficient. Or at least a  part way there.

I have heard that separating hydrogen from other matter is energy intensive, maybe the car's engine and a separate apparatus could be used while the car is being driven (and the inertial energy used too), to make a bit of hydrogen as you go?

May not make enough for a full refill, and I guess the hydrogen has to be compressed into the fuel cell anyway, but maybe it could be stored - once processed - and taken to a compression station for refilling into your car? Or maybe develop technology to a point where the whole process is done domestically?

Sorry I'm obviously not a physicist, but I am loathe to hand over a new batch of technology to fuel companies and spend the remainder of this century and the next paying for a gas that is plucked out of the air.

your proposed process is producing energy from nothing, remember: energy can neither be created nor destroyed

 

[skilbeck]

hydrogen fuel cells are basically electric cars that use hydrogen as a form of battery. batteries have always been the problem with electric cars. they're too heavy, they take too long to charge.

the thing that makes that car different is simply that as opposed to using the stored energy of lead and acid, they're using the stored energy of hydrogen and oxygen. hydrogen and oxygen are lighter for the same power output, and they can be 'charged' (refilled) in a way that is familiar.

it's energy intensive, but it's also a stable, lossless way of storing and transporting energy. batteries go off and require non-renewable (and often dangerous - mmmm... acid) goods to be produced.

imagine how you might go about producing hydrogen. take somewhere with loads of both water and sunshine. i'm thinking norht queensland. build yourself some sort of kickarse solar array to suck up sunshine for ever and a day, and use that power to crack the water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen. once you've got it, just store the gas, transport it, do whatever.

unlike using solar for baseload, you don't need it to be 24/7, it doesn't need to be especially close to anything (no need for transmission lines etc.) and after the energy loss that comes from production you've got a lossless way of storing and transporting the energy.

though i've got to say, the idea of hydrogen supertankers sailing around is a bit... interesting...

remember most of the water in this world is sea water and in an electrolysis cell, the sodium and the chlorine will split before the hydrogen and the oxygen. This process will require an upstream desalination plant or a downstream cryogenic distillation unit for it to work in Australia (where we barely have enough water as it is), both of these units are expensive

 

[tuftman]

Skillers, care to dumb it up a little??

 

[midfielder]

Skillers, care to dumb it up a little??

agree ... in two words .... please explain

 

[dibo]

hydrogen fuel cells are basically electric cars that use hydrogen as a form of battery. batteries have always been the problem with electric cars. they're too heavy, they take too long to charge.

the thing that makes that car different is simply that as opposed to using the stored energy of lead and acid, they're using the stored energy of hydrogen and oxygen. hydrogen and oxygen are lighter for the same power output, and they can be 'charged' (refilled) in a way that is familiar.

it's energy intensive, but it's also a stable, lossless way of storing and transporting energy. batteries go off and require non-renewable (and often dangerous - mmmm... acid) goods to be produced.

imagine how you might go about producing hydrogen. take somewhere with loads of both water and sunshine. i'm thinking norht queensland. build yourself some sort of kickarse solar array to suck up sunshine for ever and a day, and use that power to crack the water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen. once you've got it, just store the gas, transport it, do whatever.

unlike using solar for baseload, you don't need it to be 24/7, it doesn't need to be especially close to anything (no need for transmission lines etc.) and after the energy loss that comes from production you've got a lossless way of storing and transporting the energy.

though i've got to say, the idea of hydrogen supertankers sailing around is a bit... interesting...

remember most of the water in this world is sea water and in an electrolysis cell, the sodium and the chlorine will split before the hydrogen and the oxygen. This process will require an upstream desalination plant or a downstream cryogenic distillation unit for it to work in Australia (where we barely have enough water as it is), both of these units are expensive

you'd pull it off with a desal plant. solar energy is essentially limitless (given the ability to build an infinitely large solar plant and that may not necessarily be traditional photovoltaics - could be a different sort of 'solar engine'), then there's wind, tidal... power that and the uber-voltameter and you're rolling.

even desal may not be necessary - a solar engine in itself could distill vast quantities of water simply through excess heat. it'd be an interesting design task because you've got shitloads of salt and other resultant muck to deal with, but they're chalkboard problems, not brainfart problems. while it's my brainfart i'm calling it do-able.

 

[Bex]

I'm lost; are we talking about putting a major solar energy farm on a car???

And when Jesus split the water there was no sign of any hydrogen by all reports.

 

[tuftman]

I'm lost; are we talking about putting a major solar energy farm on a car???

And when Jesus split the water there was no sign of any hydrogen by all reports.

hahahahahaha

Skillers, Dibo, reckon you could put it in laymans terms for us now??

 

[dibo]

big electric current through water = hydrogen + oxygen. store the hydrogen and transport it to wherever the same way you would with oil/petrol.

problem is, where do you get the power?

big solar plant is good - once the plant's built, the energy's free. ditto for wave power, geothermal power, wind power etc.

you need to get the salt out of seawater (easiest source of water and you don't really want to compete with agriculture for limited supplies fresh water) though, so you need to desalinate.

you can do this either through a desal plant (which is a very power intensive process) or you can use a solar engine to simply distil the water - the heat's available anyway, might as well use the energy rather than waste it.

 

[tuftman]

big electric current through water = hydrogen + oxygen. store the hydrogen and transport it to wherever the same way you would with oil/petrol.

problem is, where do you get the power?

big solar plant is good - once the plant's built, the energy's free. ditto for wave power, geothermal power, wind power etc.

you need to get the salt out of seawater (easiest source of water and you don't really want to compete with agriculture for limited supplies fresh water) though, so you need to desalinate.

you can do this either through a desal plant (which is a very power intensive process) or you can use a solar engine to simply distil the water - the heat's available anyway, might as well use the energy rather than waste it.

thanks mate, much clearer

 

[Margaret Thatcher]

some american hippies have worked out a way, using mirrors to intensify the suns heat to 2400 deg., to seperate the necessary elements for the production of petrol from air.
petrol is made of hydrocarbons (hydrogen and carbon). these guys have seperated carbon monoxide from the carbon dioxide in the air leaving only pure oxygen behind.this means petrol can be made without using oil and the by products of petrol such as carbon dioxide is used again in the cycle.
i can try to post a link for a video no this if anyone is interested

 

[midfielder]

some american hippies have worked out a way, using mirrors to intensify the suns heat to 2400 deg., to seperate the necessary elements for the production of petrol from air.
petrol is made of hydrocarbons (hydrogen and carbon). these guys have seperated carbon monoxide from the carbon dioxide in the air leaving only pure oxygen behind.this means petrol can be made without using oil and the by products of petrol such as carbon dioxide is used again in the cycle.
i can try to post a link for a video no this if anyone is interested

Link if you have one