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More relocation chat/brawling

bikinigirl

Well-Known Member
Imagine for a moment ... we determine our average crowd is 10.5 K over time and with other costs we need to hire the stadium for say 40K per match... now council says we want 90K per match ... so 15 games with a 50K loss ... or $ 750, 000 extra to be found ... maybe more than double ticket prices and hope the crowd stay at 10.5 K ... the figures I have used are made up .... hopefully they shine a light on why the stadium rental deal is so important for our future ...

Back to the dilemma ... what if they cannot reach a comprise .... what does MC do .....

. we keep coming back to the issue of transparency ... the only figure i have seen quoted in the media was rent of $7,500 per match ... and this has not been disputed by anyone (i have heard though that it may actually be less than that!)

. if the council want to increase the rent ... by a multiple of 'x' ... then that is a simple way of explaining things to the punters and may put some pressure on the council, etc, etc. for example: 'the council want to quadruple the rent which we simply can't afford'

. the problem is: the message i have heard is that charlesworth wants a rental deal less than what he is paying now ... which i interpreted as his way of putting pressure on the council to not increase the rent

. considering we reportedly have the cheapest rental deal in the league and the pitch was recently voted as best in the league (i heard on the radio) ... perhaps what MC has to do is realise he doesn't really have that much leverage to get a better deal especially if the council only wants to impose a marginal increase (who knows?) ... if he can do that before fans start turning away in droves that would be much better
 

bikinigirl

Well-Known Member
PT tried to find buyers for gods knows how long .... to assume there are folk out there willing to step in for the good of the Coast HHHHHmmmm they are hard to find me thinks...

I am in no way defending what MC has done .... in fact I see some huge mistakes he has made ... however I will give him this ... the Brass Band, New Mascots, the Cannon at the match, The Cannon hand out at matches .... The indigenous academy at the COE .... it's not all that one sided ...

I have seen this whole thing from day one as I have often posted as a stadium rental issue ... MC for whatever reason choose to use the I am going unless I get ... Council is calling his bluff it would appear...

As Netbake said there were far smarter ways or say different ways to get the message across ....

So the question I ask you is .. say the rental is put up to where we need 13.5 K to break even ... do you see buyers anywhere to make it work for the Coast ... remember the Russians HHHHMMMmm ....

. my interpretation of why PT struggled to find 'buyers' was that he was not actually 'selling' the club (and/or COE) ... he was asking for investors for 'his' business (the club and/or COE). he was under financial pressure, but quite understandably, didn't want to lose all that he built-up (and have somebody else later realise 'his' profit). i also suspect this was part of the reason why gorman was hanging on to his share (he was under less financial pressure and also wanted to share in any future gain)

. charlesworth (my opinion from the outside) seems to have played turnbull and gorman well ... he bought in and then waited until PT was at breaking point and took control. i can only assume he is hoping to benefit from the money invested (and lost) by PT ... whether that is through the club, COE or both i don't know

. so perhaps there are buyers out there ... it just comes down to what is for sale, how much it would cost and how much control they would have ... who knows?

. as for the things charlesworth has 'done' ... he may have allowed them to be implemented but they were not necessarily his ideas ... but you're right he has implemented and funded some things which have proven to be successful
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
BG

I have no idea where you got the $ 7, 500.00 ... but I would bet it is far more than that ... there is no dispute MC wants to pay less than he does now...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
It was in the papers, and has been quoted on here several times.

SMH, 19/12:
The Mariners pay $7500 in stadium rental fees at their home ground, Bluetongue Stadium - understood to the be the lowest in the A-League - and Charlesworth confirmed they were looking for a reduced tenancy rate when Gosford City Council assumes management on February 1.
 

Big Al

Well-Known Member
On the bright side NSO was a shit event. i won't go again - But I'm sure plenty would.

It was a beer garden not a football game. Heaps of guys going to have a night out with friends. No interest on what was happening on the field.

So if they take the mariners off us & give them to North Sydney they will be dead as well. We loose but so does the people who move it. Sounds like a stupid statement but I'd hope for nothing but the worst if it was taken from us.

The view was shit, the seats were shit, the atmosphere was shit. But plenty of North Sydney people prob didn't even know they went to the A League they just thought it was the newest place to get a drink. They will go again as long as it's a novelty. No way would they go every week (that's not hip).

I do see merit in 2-3 games a year at NSO for the carnival atmosphere. Friday night would be perfect you would get a bigger crowd & Bluetongue sucks on a Friday night. Coasties can watch on Free to Air. But you would have to give them the shit games like Wellington which I'm fine with. Our memberships would be cheaper as less games on the coast. But does the club really make any money out of that - I doubt it. I'm sure half the people where there for free.

After experiencing it I am very confident a relocation would fail miserably & am less worried than before. They probably still want to persist with it but they are wasting there time really.

Something I did pick up was a lot of talk of joining with the Gladsville association to run the W League etc. It was the Gladsville association are ours for the merging type stuff & some Gladsville kids were given the half time entertainment of playing on the field.
However I was a little suprised to go to Pirtek stadium for the WSW game to see the Gladsville Southern Mariners association kids as the half time entertainment. Shows that they are not in our pocket at all or playing us like a fiddle or just as happy to take the WSW hospitality as ours. Might be a very minor coincidence but took special note of it.

MC likes the COE for what ever reason - He either feels that will line his pockets or CCM's pockets. Others feel it is a liability - without the numbers is hard to say but MC has been part of it for quite a while so would be keen to see it through. That however doesn't mean the mariners stay on the coast (the mariners will always be on the coast but the football team may not).

I think a move to North Sydney would be a major flop but can handle 2-3 games there a year but I don't really see the purpose of it.
 

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
On the bright side NSO was a shit event. i won't go again - But I'm sure plenty would.

It was a beer garden not a football game. Heaps of guys going to have a night out with friends. No interest on what was happening on the field.

So if they take the mariners off us & give them to North Sydney they will be dead as well. We loose but so does the people who move it. Sounds like a stupid statement but I'd hope for nothing but the worst if it was taken from us.

The view was shit, the seats were shit, the atmosphere was shit. But plenty of North Sydney people prob didn't even know they went to the A League they just thought it was the newest place to get a drink. They will go again as long as it's a novelty. No way would they go every week (that's not hip).

I do see merit in 2-3 games a year at NSO for the carnival atmosphere. Friday night would be perfect you would get a bigger crowd & Bluetongue sucks on a Friday night. Coasties can watch on Free to Air. But you would have to give them the shit games like Wellington which I'm fine with. Our memberships would be cheaper as less games on the coast. But does the club really make any money out of that - I doubt it. I'm sure half the people where there for free.

After experiencing it I am very confident a relocation would fail miserably & am less worried than before. They probably still want to persist with it but they are wasting there time really.

Something I did pick up was a lot of talk of joining with the Gladsville association to run the W League etc. It was the Gladsville association are ours for the merging type stuff & some Gladsville kids were given the half time entertainment of playing on the field.
However I was a little suprised to go to Pirtek stadium for the WSW game to see the Gladsville Southern Mariners association kids as the half time entertainment. Shows that they are not in our pocket at all or playing us like a fiddle or just as happy to take the WSW hospitality as ours. Might be a very minor coincidence but took special note of it.

MC likes the COE for what ever reason - He either feels that will line his pockets or CCM's pockets. Others feel it is a liability - without the numbers is hard to say but MC has been part of it for quite a while so would be keen to see it through. That however doesn't mean the mariners stay on the coast (the mariners will always be on the coast but the football team may not).

I think a move to North Sydney would be a major flop but can handle 2-3 games there a year but I don't really see the purpose of it.
The atmosphere was amazing in season 1 of the old NS but they had 20k+ crowds every @ home game
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
COE is a liability until it turns its first dollar. Problem is that nobody has any idea when that might be. We've been waiting a long time - this is from the first page of the
Mariners Centre of Excellence is GO! thread:

Oh, I should also mention that construction should commence start of 2010 and finished by early 2011.

Meanwhile...

The atmosphere was amazing in season 1 of the old NS but they had 20k+ crowds every @ home game
No, they didn't. Their record crowd was 18,985 for their very first game, and their averages started at about 15k and dropped away after that.
 

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
COE is a liability until it turns its first dollar. Problem is that nobody has any idea when that might be. We've been waiting a long time - this is from the first page of the
Mariners Centre of Excellence is GO! thread:



Meanwhile...


No, they didn't. Their record crowd was 18,985 for their very first game, and their averages started at about 15k and dropped away after that.
:doh: & yes they got worse & worse til they moved to pittwater rugby park then that was the beginning of the end:(
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Given it's off-season, is it time to fire up the brawling again? It's a long wait til the A-League starts in October, it's even a long wait til the FFA Cup fixtures come around.

*cracks knuckles*

Next year, we'll have fewer members and smaller crowds than we have had this year or last.

The short term financial impact might not be massive - we'll move two games to venues where they'll roll out the barrel for us and we'll save a few bucks in rent, but the long term damage is real. As crowds drop the apparent need to move games to cut costs might grow, but moving games is part of the problem.

It dilutes our brand, it weakens our parochial association with the region and it erodes locals' confidence that the club is here to stay.

That slogan Thurbs was talking about months ago (and which is/was on the billboard on the highway at Ourimbah) - We are the Central Coast - feels like it needs to come with a rider:
  • We are the Central Coast (as long as we feel like paying the rent)
  • We are the Central Coast (unless someone offers us a better deal)
  • We are the Central Coast (until Mike has another brainwave)
Feel free to make up your own.
 

rbakersmith

Well-Known Member
With any luck Mike will actually learn something from that EPL study tour he's doing with Tony Sage and Brisbane's Chris Fong...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
We've already talked a lot about the $7.5k vs $75k stuff. Start on P7 or even with BG's post here:

. i mentioned this earlier , but $7,500! and he wants a reduced rate? to what?

. if that is the case let's look at some numbers:
  • $7,500 x 13 home games = $97,500 in rental fees ... a year!
  • lets assume 'other' costs are consistent regardless of the venue ... so excluding security, road closures, etc
  • also exclude finals games (apparently that is the ffa's cost) and acl (for the sake of the argument)
  • a 50% reduction will save $48,750 ... a year!
  • free rental will save $97,500 ... a year!
  • ok, so i couldn't afford to pick up the tab ... but seriously!
. what does less than $100k a year get you:
  • a groundsman, lawn tractor and some petrol?
  • the reason for ccm not putting in a tender for management rights seems obvious ... they couldn't manage the stadium for less than $100k pa!
  • yet he still wants a better deal!
. what would it take to gain or lose $100k pa through other streams:
  • 279 platinum members @ $350
  • 375 gold members @ $260
  • 500 blue members @ $195
  • 4,875 walk up supporters @ say $20 (you could say he has already lost 5,000 people in two games ... not the whole season!)
  • if he loses more than say 400 members in the next year ... and gets the rent for free ... he would still be shooting himself in the foot if there was any feet left
. and the money brought to the coast through the quoted 42,000 people is largely an irrelevance to gosford council. if a couple (or a family of 37) wsw supporters attend a match and head for a stuff 'til ya chuck feed at the leagues club beforehand ... how much money does the council see before the profits are taken to a holding company off the coast?

. anybody get the feeling i think this is all illogical?

When we talked about $75k, it was noted that that's $975k for a 13 game season, which seems a plausible sum. But like the quotes from MC about taking games away, nobody's ever bothered to get the SMH to correct the numbers.

That's part of the whole problem here. Nobody at the club is bothering with actual facts.

If MC came out with numbers and said "this is what we're getting through the gate, we need to hit x or we're going under," we'd be more able to take it as a rational and considered thing.

If he came out and told us what the annual loss was, it'd give people a feel for the scale of the problem. More importantly, if he told us the *direction* of the bottom line, it would give us a better idea.

At present we have no information, only the presumption that he deems we're not doing well enough. We don't even know what success is defined as being, so not running a 10% surplus could be not doing well enough for all we know.

We don't know whether bringing our average up by 1k is enough.

We don't know if bringing memberships up to 7.5k is enough.

We don't know if getting one more big sponsor is enough.

We don't know if nothing will ever be enough, and if it's up to him the club's moving.

We just don't know because he's not saying.

Instead, he will quietly make his plans and they'll have a session to chat with some handpicked fans who will apparently be convinced by the end of the meeting (according to Bruce at least) and that passes for consultation and communication.

It's a load of horseshit.

For the first time I'm seriously unsure as to whether I renew my membership.
 

gull

Well-Known Member
:goodpost:

The continual comments about moving games (through the media I might add) just cause so much damage. Every member I know is aware of them, and all are not renewing without knowing a lot more about what is going on.

It would seem simple that a firm commitment to the coast and a concentrated effort to get more people to the games will get us back to the numbers we've had in the past.

Better service at the games would help as well as people don't like missing 15-20 minutes of a game to stand in a queue when they can stay at home for a lot less hassle and money.

My own theory is that a certain person wants the crowds to slowly dwindle down to the point that he can approach the FFA about moving the "franchise" to another location. I'd love to be wrong.

BTW at no stage have the FFA come out with any firm commitment to keep us on the coast either. They are always strangely silent.
 

Wombat

Well-Known Member
On the bright side NSO was a shit event. i won't go again - But I'm sure plenty would.

It was a beer garden not a football game. Heaps of guys going to have a night out with friends. No interest on what was happening on the field.

So if they take the mariners off us & give them to North Sydney they will be dead as well. We loose but so does the people who move it. Sounds like a stupid statement but I'd hope for nothing but the worst if it was taken from us.

The view was shit, the seats were shit, the atmosphere was shit. But plenty of North Sydney people prob didn't even know they went to the A League they just thought it was the newest place to get a drink. They will go again as long as it's a novelty. No way would they go every week (that's not hip).

I do see merit in 2-3 games a year at NSO for the carnival atmosphere. Friday night would be perfect you would get a bigger crowd & Bluetongue sucks on a Friday night. Coasties can watch on Free to Air. But you would have to give them the shit games like Wellington which I'm fine with. Our memberships would be cheaper as less games on the coast. But does the club really make any money out of that - I doubt it. I'm sure half the people where there for free.

After experiencing it I am very confident a relocation would fail miserably & am less worried than before. They probably still want to persist with it but they are wasting there time really.

Something I did pick up was a lot of talk of joining with the Gladsville association to run the W League etc. It was the Gladsville association are ours for the merging type stuff & some Gladsville kids were given the half time entertainment of playing on the field.
However I was a little suprised to go to Pirtek stadium for the WSW game to see the Gladsville Southern Mariners association kids as the half time entertainment. Shows that they are not in our pocket at all or playing us like a fiddle or just as happy to take the WSW hospitality as ours. Might be a very minor coincidence but took special note of it.

MC likes the COE for what ever reason - He either feels that will line his pockets or CCM's pockets. Others feel it is a liability - without the numbers is hard to say but MC has been part of it for quite a while so would be keen to see it through. That however doesn't mean the mariners stay on the coast (the mariners will always be on the coast but the football team may not).

I think a move to North Sydney would be a major flop but can handle 2-3 games there a year but I don't really see the purpose of it.

It's pointless. MC tried to prove a point and it was a fizzer.
He damaged his standing within the community no end although he did salvage some brownie points when he called out the f**kwits at the FFA prior to the Drive Bys game.
Clearly he is not an idiot so hopefully he has learned not to be so openly stupid in future and we can put this relocation nonsense to bed.
 

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
It's pointless. MC tried to prove a point and it was a fizzer.
He damaged his standing within the community no end although he did salvage some brownie points when he called out the f**kwits at the FFA prior to the Drive Bys game.
Clearly he is not an idiot so hopefully he has learned not to be so openly stupid in future and we can put this relocation nonsense to bed.
:goodpost:
 

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