Mariners Squad - HAL 12 - 2016 - 2017

[dibo]

Who don't they cut?

My son knows Alessi. Don't think WSW is an easy camp or survive and flourish in.

Is Alessi interested in moving north?

 

[All in]

Why does everyone keep going on about a "10", change the formation to suit the squad. we have 2 strikers that would compliment each other play them both and forget a "10". we have an abundance of midfielders. I see the Socceroo's did it last night.

 

[dibo]

Rogic looks like he's in the 10 role here:

It's not like we've never played a diamond before either - it was basically our stock formation from 2005 - 2012.

 

[All in]

Rogic looks like he's in the 10 role here:

It's not like we've never played a diamond before either - it was basically our stock formation from 2005 - 2012.

it

 

[All in]

The Socceroos didn't rely on Rogic to transition us into attack or be our focus at creating as "10" would be expected to do, it was more a free role which someone like Ferreira could do for us

 

[dibo]

Rogic was very clearly playing as a 10. Just because not every attack went through him doesn't change that.

 

[All in]

Main point is we have a squad with some decent options let try fit that into a system rather than complain about what we don't have.
We are not a youth team so we don't have to play one system

 

[Coach]

Main point is we have a squad with some decent options let try fit that into a system rather than complain about what we don't have.
We are not a youth team so we don't have to play one system

Here, here love that atitude, just what all good coaches should do, make the structure fit the cattle not the other way around, unfortunatly our youth structure makes the structure prime which is dumb.

 

[dibo]

I think that it's good that we set a structure for the youth - 4-3-3 is like a language you're teaching. Every kid coming through knows the functional roles across one formation - they've learnt the grammar, so to speak. Having ensured all kids learnt football in that 'language', it's then pretty simple to translate that single message into other messages, rather than taking kids from a wide variety of different native tongues (to torture the analogy further).

 

[Big Al]

The reason is we have no flexibility in the attacking midfielders.

Powell is a good player but primarily a striker.

The rest are all defensive midfielders.

You need flexibility. Last year we never ever went down the middle. It was exclusively wide. That suited the cattle but made us predicable as you know what.

A 10 allows a variety of avenues to goal or to the attackers or formations.

The Socceroos were regularly going wide through Leckie or Kruse or Burns. They have now changed to use the midfield strength they have with the diamond to suit the cattle but, should injury or the opposition thwart that setup they can change to the wide setup.

We don't have that option, that is why a #10 is required. They don't need to play every game they just need to be a tactical option

 

[All in]

I think that it's good that we set a structure for the youth - 4-3-3 is like a language you're teaching. Every kid coming through knows the functional roles across one formation - they've learnt the grammar, so to speak. Having ensured all kids learnt football in that 'language', it's then pretty simple to translate that single message into other messages, rather than taking kids from a wide variety of different native tongues (to torture the analogy further).

There are so many different ways to play 433 or 451 or 4231 or what ever you want to call it, how is that different to educating players on different formations? The national team is not using that formation every game because it didn't suit every player or opposition. Back to my point if we don't have players to fill the role then change the formation.

 

[dibo]

There are so many different ways to play 433 or 451 or 4231 or what ever you want to call it, how is that different to educating players on different formations? The national team is not using that formation every game because it didn't suit every player or opposition. Back to my point if we don't have players to fill the role then change the formation.

The curriculum takes players through a development process to understand the functional roles of each position and the relationships each position has to the team as a whole (and the opposing team).

At SAP, a kid in U9s will play in a shape that is
----1----
2---6---5
7--9--11

In U10s, this transitions to:
----1----
2---6---5
--8--10--
7--9--11

And in youth league in U13s this typically transitions to:
----1----
2--3--4--5
---8---6---
----10------
-7---9---11-

Later, there's the option of flipping the triangle to be:
----1----
2--3--4--5
-----6-------
---8---10---
-7---9---11-

As sides get older and players develop, the system becomes more flexible and of course there are different ways to play it. But it all starts from getting to know the functional roles and relationships.

Once these are bedded in, it's easy to move from there to shifting the roles around to flatten the midfield, to drop the 7 and 11 deeper to have a lone striker, to drop the 9 in behind the wingers, etc.

But the kids need to learn what each role does the same way, so that when coaches are tweaking later on they're able to tweak from the set of basic principles that they know every player knows.

As you note, a 4-3-3, a 4-5-1 and a 4-2-3-1 are all shapes that can be derived from the 4-3-3, but all rely on each player knowing what their role is, and that starts from the fundamentals of the 4-3-3.

 

[All in]

I don't disagree with you on that dibo

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Is Alessi interested in moving north?

Yes he was. He went to the jets.

 

[dibo]

Oh. damn.

 

[midfielder]

Lots of second guessing pertaining to formations etc...

PO has made it clear he wants a CB, and that our defence needs to improve... Not entirely untrue I would suggest.

He has a squad, and in his mind he knows what he wants.... I think like Muskie he will demand every player both attack and defend..... but he will develop a plan and playing style and I am looking forward to what he can bring.

If I recall correctly, part of the national team set ups was to upskill players to be able to switch formations at different times within games... Arnold was very good at this aspect of his coaching ...

PO I am sure will have in his head different formations for different stages... way to early to be predetermining what they will be.

 

[dibo]

PO I am sure will have in his head different formations for different stages... way to early to be predetermining what they will be.

It's really not! The transitions between shapes need to be automatic - the players need to know exactly where they're shaping up. I expect to see us being able to change 'mood' in attack and defence through the year based on the game circumstances. That means they need to be practicing each shape now to be able to pull it out without trouble in-season.

We're talking about professionals all round - If Paolo wants to be able to shift from a deep-block 4-4-2 in defence to a higher pressing 4-3-3 and back again within a match with just a simple instruction, the complicated instructions need to be memorised and brought to a state where it's nearly instinctive.

Ditto if he wants to transition from careful build-up to fast counters and back again. Each player's going to have a particular role and they need to know the script.

He's got to be working on that right now.

 

[Rowdy]

My question is why was he cut by the drive bys?

Why did the Drive Bys cut Mooy.... they seem to cut two thirds of the team each year.

Mooy was technically released by WSW, but it was only because they couldn't or weren't prepared to entertain the offer$ other clubs (@ least x3) were throwing at Mooy, all prepared to make him their Australian Marquee.

Melb Heart won out, reportedly due to the multi-year contract - & this was well before Manchester City's $11.25 million take-over was even announced.

With hindsight, I'm sure Poppa wished he'd 'just spent the $$$' and KEPT Mooy, especially when you look at the shitload of $$$ they've wasted on
Dino Kressingers & Piovaccari , but Poppa's too arrogant to ever publicly admit to that.

 

[Rowdy]

If Paolo wants to be able to shift from a deep-block 4-4-2 in defence to a higher pressing 4-3-3 and back again within a match with just a simple instruction, the complicated instructions need to be memorised and brought to a state where it's nearly instinctive.

Ditto if he wants to transition from careful build-up to fast counters and back again. Each player's going to have a particular role and they need to know the script.

He's got to be working on that right now.

"Adjustment" ..... This is the area where Walmsley failed miserably.

Sitting on his arse for the majority of a game acchieves nothing in 'praying' the team will adhere to your wishes. If they're not executing 'it', common sense tells you to get up and 'bark for change'.
But NO, he wouldn't.

In fact it was Tony's pre-season 2015/16 of statement of:
'You'll see 5 mins of Fury", whenever CCM commits a turnover, that was just pure laughable
...... I/we never saw it executed once, however - R'OD was up for it !
- BUT sadly no-one else in the team seemed to buy into TW's BS football catch-cry's.

I think Okon is 'streets ahead' tactically than Walmsley and I have no concerns & that we'll see a transformation in CCM's style of 'play' from this point forward.

Just a shame we won't get to see it until Rnd 1 and NOT in FFA Cup and the likes of pre-season games.

 

[dibo]

Roddy, you're absolutely right.

TW's plan was basically for what's otherwise known (thanks to Jurgen Klopp) as the gegenpress or whatever the hell Guardiola called it at Barca - when you lose it, win it straight back and don't allow the opponent to settle.

The best demonstration of it that I ever saw was Spain in the 2010 WC semi against Germany. The Germans had been frankly unbelievable leading up to that game, but the Spanish side never gave them a second to settle, and ground out a win. Despite the idea of 'pretty' tiki-taka and beautiful build-up, their success was really built on being absolute mongrels when they didn't have the ball. Snarling, snapping at heels and making the ball-carrier unsettled to the point of fear.

Whilst it's a great phrase and all, TW clearly had no idea how to get our squad to do it (as evidenced by the thing I liked to whinge about most - Ferreira and Austin standing hands-on-hips watching us get carved after we lose the ball), and we got punished constantly.

I don't think we'll see Okon do anything that ambitions that quickly. We'll have a textbook 4-3-3 pressing up to deny easy passes into the channels and restrict attacking options, but we're not going to be up the arse of central defenders and we're not going to be hunting in packs on the other side of halfway.

When we're tired, looking to slow the game down or consolidate, we'll probably drop deeper to a 4-4-2, concede the middle third of the field and instead deny space in behind the back 4.

I care most of all about us getting these things right - getting our structures right without the ball and making sure our transitions into them are instinctive.

We can get away with 'heroic' acts to get us goals, but we can't get away with heroism in defence. It just has to work from kickoff to the final whistle.