Mariners Squad - 2019-2020

[turbo]

Dagostino at Perth isnt getting much game time and has been good for the U23s

We’ve already got Murray and some other young strikers on the books. IMO to take daggers over DWH was a mistake but at least he has stepped up a few times.

We need to be more ambitious with a striker and focus our budget on some key positions for next season that we can build around.

I’m worried that the last few weeks might have cost us a chance to extend Birraz stay.

 

[Insertnamehere]

We’ve already got Murray and some other young strikers on the books. IMO to take daggers over DWH was a mistake but at least he has stepped up a few times.

We need to be more ambitious with a striker and focus our budget on some key positions for next season that we can build around.

I’m worried that the last few weeks might have cost us a chance to extend Birraz stay.

Roar letting DAg go was silly. My roar mates weren't happy.

 

[turbo]

From what I remember they were playing him out of position but he wasn’t doing much of note for them last season. My main issue with the idea is we’d be spending money on a second or third choice striker and that rules out any chance of minutes for someone lower on the pecking order.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Dagostino will now have a higher price and is not what we need.
If we are going to purchase a striker. I would rather spend the money on a visa player who can slot goals easily at A-League level and pass on knowledge to our up and comers. Something like Patrick Z. but at the other end of the field.
First priority is to tie up Birra for three years and Milan for another.

 

[Michael]

After how much of the ball and decent attacking plays, above average balls into the box yesterday I honestly believe it’s time to ditch muzz. Yeah he doesn’t always get good enough service but when he does he’s so wasteful more often than not. And he’s hold up play is getting worse. I was a fan of jair at first too but I’ve lost faith now. And matty, well it’s all been spoke about enough.
Clean out all 3 strikers and replace with a fresh 3/4.
Use one of the youth boys, find a decent Aussie mid 20s and then go as big as possible on a good visa striker.
And staj really needs to get a real structured formation down pat. I know it would be hard with this squad but he’s a good enough coach. Go back to basics even if it’s a classic 442 with some variables. Use natural wingers hugging the sideline, have Milan as a deep play maker and keep things tight.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Nizzy must be signed for 3 years this week.
I have thought he was a great talent from the little I have seen of him in the Cup and made no secret of it.
Tonights 90 minute performance confirmed it in my mind.
Good decisions quickly. A natural talent. A goer. A good football brain.

Technically very sound, but above all it’s the football brain. It’s why I was pushing for him to get game time as well, GG, Melling, DeSilva... all have some great attributes, but consistently make bad decisions.

Sure I don’t think he’ll score many, and aerially it’s a disadvantage, but I think he’ll definitely help his teams not just win, but handle pressure and respond effectively to whatever is happening, be it in attack or defence.

This quality to perceive what’s before you and respond quickly and accurately always shows in the best players, Milan has it, Kim has it, I think Nizzy has it, and I actually think Miller has it. Which is why unlike the Mill’a’rs and Austin’s (and I’m hoping not Silveras) of the world, he’s not being suddenly found out, because they’re not one trick pony’s and are capable of reading the game and Changing to get whatever job needs doing, done.

 

[Ads]

Predicted 20/21 Season if things progress as they are and we actually manage to draw some new recruits above the level of our current starting.

If we can’t snag new recruits we will easily see Stens, Desilva, Silvera, GG and Clisby creep back into the starting 11.

At least 5 to 7 changes in the first 11 hopefully.

And hopefully can organise selling some of the extra mids or loan deals.
Even next season still a fair bit of money sitting on the bench if the squad is to progress to a competitive level.

——————Birra———————-

Miller——New——Rowles——New
New——-New———New——-New
——————Duric——————-
——————New———————-


Subs -
Clisby
Silvera
Stensness
De Silva
Nisbit
Gallifuoco
Murray
Pearce
Tongyik

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Dagostino will now have a higher price and is not what we need.
If we are going to purchase a striker. I would rather spend the money on a visa player who can slot goals easily at A-League level and pass on knowledge to our up and comers. Something like Patrick Z. but at the other end of the field.
First priority is to tie up Birra for three years and Milan for another.

Exactly.

 

[pjennings]

Predicted 20/21 Season if things progress as they are and we actually manage to draw some new recruits above the level of our current starting.

If we can’t snag new recruits we will easily see Stens, Desilva, Silvera, GG and Clisby creep back into the starting 11.

At least 5 to 7 changes in the first 11 hopefully.

And hopefully can organise selling some of the extra mids or loan deals.
Even next season still a fair bit of money sitting on the bench if the squad is to progress to a competitive level.

——————Birra———————-

Miller——New——Rowles——New
New——-New———New——-New
——————Duric——————-
——————New———————-


Subs -
Clisby
Silvera
Stensness
De Silva
Nisbit
Gallifuoco
Murray
Pearce
Tongyik

I started doing the same on another thread in response to FP

No he’s not holding back. Imo he is improving but my position hasn’t changed, I doubt he’ll ever be a 10 plus goal a season HAL striker. Which is what any seriously competing side must have.

.....

Heard a few things that make me think striker training is probably an area we’re deficient in and we may need someone like Mc’Breen or Mori if we’re going to persist with trying to develop young unproven strikers.

You have to think if we add a quality 10 and real striker to the side yesterday, then we more than likely win that game by a couple.

....

Muzz is a decent all rounder, works hard, and gets up well, but that’s not enough for a striker to succeed at this level. And I think that’s now been proven to be true.

This is where I disagree. The likes of Miller, Rowles, Stensness, Nisbet, Murray & Silvera shouldn't be who we are relying on. They are the type of players we need to be developing. Ideally none are guaranteed starters except to cover injury or form slumps.

We have all agreed that a real visa #10 and a real visa striker. Well Muzz is not that. He is a lower paid squaddie trying his best and learning. Who knows with real service how good he could be - I don't. But as a backup striker or second striker next to a true visa striker I am happy to have him there.

Staj has made a big difference this year but needs to make a bigger difference next year.

Birighitti must be retained,

Assuming 6 visa players next season then Milan and if possible Kim (though going back to Korea seems likely) need to be retained.

Ziggy I'm not sold on but if not him an upgraded visa CB is needed as well as a visa LB given the dearth of talent there.

The final two visa players need to be a top quality #10 and a top quality striker.

-----------------------Birighitti/Pearce------------------------
RB/Miller------Ziggy/Other Visa/GG/Tongyik---CB/Rowles-----Visa LB/Clisby
---------------Kim or other Visa DM/Stensness---------------
RM/Silvera----------Duric/Nisbet--------Visa AM/DDS------LM/Ruiz-Diaz
-----------------------Visa CF/Murray-----------------------

 

[Big Al]

Dagostino at Perth isnt getting much game time and has been good for the U23s

Tony Pinata tweeted he’s been injured and they got him ready for the u23’s.

Lets see if he gets any time when he comes back

Looks decent but we do need to fix the main striker first

 

[Forum Phoenix]

After how much of the ball and decent attacking plays, above average balls into the box yesterday I honestly believe it’s time to ditch muzz. Yeah he doesn’t always get good enough service but when he does he’s so wasteful more often than not. And he’s hold up play is getting worse. I was a fan of jair at first too but I’ve lost faith now. And matty, well it’s all been spoke about enough.
Clean out all 3 strikers and replace with a fresh 3/4.
Use one of the youth boys, find a decent Aussie mid 20s and then go as big as possible on a good visa striker.
And staj really needs to get a real structured formation down pat. I know it would be hard with this squad but he’s a good enough coach. Go back to basics even if it’s a classic 442 with some variables. Use natural wingers hugging the sideline, have Milan as a deep play maker and keep things tight.

Great post.

I’d love to hear someone experienced speak to the 4222 as I’ve never personally played in one or coached that system.

To me there seems to be issues around width in attack sporadically. In defence it’s clearly not as fast to slide when the opposition switches play and I noticed sometime the front or back two compress. So you see a 442 and 424 that at first I thought was a 433 when players were shifting in and out and confusing me,

My biggest concern is that too often for my liking the opponents can easily progress up field and deep into our final third. But with this formation I’m struggling to tell who is failing in their duty in these instances - which is not helped by the amount of cheap ball we still give away.

Appreciate any and all thoughts. (I can use google but prefer to hear from those with personal. Experience)

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I started doing the same on another thread in response to FP


This is where I disagree. The likes of Miller, Rowles, Stensness, Nisbet, Murray & Silvera shouldn't be who we are relying on. They are the type of players we need to be developing. Ideally none are guaranteed starters except to cover injury or form slumps.

We have all agreed that a real visa #10 and a real visa striker. Well Muzz is not that. He is a lower paid squaddie trying his best and learning. Who knows with real service how good he could be - I don't. But as a backup striker or second striker next to a true visa striker I am happy to have him there.

Staj has made a big difference this year but needs to make a bigger difference next year.

Birighitti must be retained,

Assuming 6 visa players next season then Milan and if possible Kim (though going back to Korea seems likely) need to be retained.

Ziggy I'm not sold on but if not him an upgraded visa CB is needed as well as a visa LB given the dearth of talent there.

The final two visa players need to be a top quality #10 and a top quality striker.

-----------------------Birighitti/Pearce------------------------
RB/Miller------Ziggy/Other Visa/Tongyik---CB/Rowles-----Visa LB/Clisby
---------------Kim or other Visa DM/Stensness---------------
RM/Silvera----------Duric/Nisbet--------Visa AM/DDS------LM/Ruiz-Diaz
-----------------------Visa CF/Murray-----------------------

Ok, but Muzz is our current starting striker. And you agree we need a 10 + goals per season player as our starting striker? But you still think Muzz can become that one day at this level?

He’s improved I think, but I just don’t see him as a development player anymore as he is almost 25, played 35 odd games for us and is scoring 1 in every 7. He’s also had plenty of service to be on a lot higher than his current tally.,. So I’m not at all convinced he deserves the development spot off the bench vs some other young Aussie several years younger and several yards faster with more raw talent. But either way he is not a starting striker, which right now he is.

 

[pjennings]

It comes down to the fact that Muzz is a cheap squaddie. There is a club captain paid more than him as a central striker and a visa striker as well. If there is a problem it is that those two players are not performing well enough for him not to be the current starting striker. We have Jair, Simon, Murray Majok and Roberts as central strikers at the moment. The older ones aren't keeping him out and no one is advocating for the younger ones so he is the starting striker by default.

He is not a big money player like Fornaroli, Berisha, Le Fondre, Barbarouses, Maclaren or even Roy. If there is a comparison to be made it is to Adam Kwasnik who had at the same stage had a very similar record and at a very similar age. Kwas bled for the club (literally at times) and I see that sort of commitment from Murray. We also had stronger squads and gave better service to our strikers when Kwas played. It should be noted that Kwas also doubled his conversion rate after this and is our second highest goal scorer.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Great post.


So you see a 442 and 424 that at first I thought was a 433 when players were shifting in and out and confusing me,

This is has hit the nail on the head not just confusing you and me but also the players.
I have no experience at all in football tactics or structures, but what I can gather is that the aim of the narrow box 4-2-2-2 with high wingbacks is to crowd and outnumber the opposition in the midfield. The aim is to prevent the opposition getting through by creating an effective barrier. With no misdirected passes, poor touches and cheap turnovers, this tactic should be effective.
In the event of a turnover players should be able to move instinctively to cover gaps, eg DM to fullback.
I do not think our players are sufficiently skilled to play this structure. There are too many cheap turnovers leaving us at risk of quick counters, with our defence stretched and many players having to react quickly to fill holes. I suspect this has led to a lot of the criticism (I think a little unfair) of Ziggy and Kim being forced to play defensively.
In attack I think it requires the attack to be narrow with quick short passes and movement to get through the opposition. At the moment our midfield seems capable of only one or two of these passes when it really needs three or four to penetrate.

These are only my conclusions from watching Mariners live. I do not know of other teams playing this way as sometimes watching on tv the camera is on the ball and it can be difficult to work out what the off the ball players are doing.

I, like FP, would love to hear what others who have some experience or knowledge think.

A talk by Staj in an off season forum explaining his philosophies on tactics at a fans' night would be excellent.

 

[Coastalraider]

I also have no real tactical brain for football, but one things that has been bugging me is that we are playing a narrow box to load the midfield, and our attacking plays are long diagonal balls which immediately negate the benefit of our structure. Without high wingers to revive those balls, we are stuck fairly central when we receive, with minimal players in and around the box as they are all left behind in the stacked midfield once to long ball goes floating over their heads.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Kwas was also the leading goalscorer in the NPL the year before the A-league started. He may also have learnt a bit from playing alongside Stewart Petrie with both Mariners and Northern Spirit.
If we can get a top quality striker and Muzz can turn into an unpredictable genius like Kwas things will look good.

 

[Insertnamehere]

I also have no real tactical brain for football, but one things that has been bugging me is that we are playing a narrow box to load the midfield, and our attacking plays are long diagonal balls which immediately negate the benefit of our structure. Without high wingers to revive those balls, we are stuck fairly central when we receive, with minimal players in and around the box as they are all left behind in the stacked midfield once to long ball goes floating over their heads.

We do it to stop teams passing through us. Teams just go wide on us when no one babysitting the WB spot.
But when we get the turnover we also have noone busting their ass to get up the wings.

 

[Pirate Pete]

Kwas was also the leading goalscorer in the NPL the year before the A-league started. He may also have learnt a bit from playing alongside Stewart Petrie with both Mariners and Northern Spirit.
If we can get a top quality striker and Muzz can turn into an unpredictable genius like Kwas things will look good.

Kwas was one of those players in the right place at the right time.
Whether this was because he read the game or by accident I have no idea.
That the header that hit the post the other night. It would have rebounded, hit Kwas on the knee and gone in.
The other time he'd score was just after my mate said he was f**king useless.

 

[Ironbark]

Kwas was a master of the well timed curved run in behind. He'd bend his run in such a way that it looked quite deceptive - scored quite a few by taking defenders totally off guard

 

[style_cafe]

Kwas could do things other players couldn`t do, but couldn`t do the things other players could do...

Edit: DDS is pretty much in the same category