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"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

hasbeen

Well-Known Member
labor 70
libs79
Katter 1
wilkie 1
ind 1

From our illustrious TB.

Labor 70 ? From the Penny Wong School of Predictions.
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Congratulations to Tony Abbot and the LNP.

So, I'm expecting the boats to be stopped within months, the deficit to be abolished, two million new jobs, a whole bunch of new roads including the M1 to M2 link, revitalisation of Gosford CBD, the carbon tax to be scrapped, the new lease vehicle crackdown to be reversed, a stronger economy "so everyone can get ahead" and highly competent handling of the Syrian crisis as well as other foreign policy. All of the above (and more) to happen competently and smoothly with no excuses. After all, they're about "real action" and "real delivery".

I really hope those things are achieved, although I actually like the Carbon Tax and I hate the stop the boats policy (an admiral in charge of blasting the vermin FFS!). But I'll be happy to admit I made a mistake in this election if all of the above happens and Australia benefits.

Unfortunately, I have a sneaking suspicion it's all not-so-smooth political speak which is pretty much solely designed to undermine the ALP's campaign. I guess that is not a surprise. However, I expect we won't see a significant change in the deficit and that the LNP policy for spending cuts in the public sector will result in damage to the economy. I'm worried there will be more job losses at a time when loads of people have already lost jobs (in spite of the dodgy ALP figures on this) and areas like the Central Coast will be hardest hit as there's no plan for significant spending on long term job creation up here other than a vague promise to move a commonwealth agency into Gosford (more low paid jobs that probably won't help school leavers).

Buckle up people.......
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I'd hate to be a gay refugee prone to sun burn who wanted high speed internet to skype my family about their new lack of foreign aid right about now.

On the other hand, I'm a business owner with a good income who can afford private health care and private education for my children. My business or family is unlikely to be hurt by this change of government. But unfortunately I have a social conscience. Meanwhile people of lesser fortune who don't know any better vote for a party who cares less than nothing for them.

Cut foreign aid, protect the borders, and stop the boats. Sigh. Very disappointed in Labours choice of battle ground in this election, but it seems pretty clear that
some sins can only be washed clear with blood. The people have their pound of flesh now, and hopefully with Rudd gone, Labour can make a new start of things now.

Dibo & TB, whose your pick for next most likely labour leaders?

Hasbeen, what are the key policies you are most looking forward to seeing implemented?
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Some international thoughts...

Tory MP Douglas Carswell seized on Mr Abbott's victory to urge Mr Cameron to adopt similar policies.

'I'm loving the way that the centre right in Australia have modernised - and won. Ought to inspire Conservatives here in UK!' he wrote on Twitter.

'Abbott won offering lower taxes, less immigration, an end to obsession with CO2 and less foreign aid. Go figure.

'Abbott's views are throughly modern. He seems to have seen through global warming fad, wants less government and is pro Anglosphere.'

There were some less complimentary assessments from Labour MPs.

Paul Flynn posted: 'Oz has elected a bigoted air-head to drag them backwards into mean prejudice and vainglorious chauvinism.'
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
Ok, let's see if I'm ready for the new world.

White? Check
Employed? Check
Able bodied? Check?
Home owner? Check
Not receiving any State benefits? Check
Health insurance? Check

Just like growing up in Thatchers Britain really. Don't know what all the fuss is about.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Unsurprisingly, I agree more with the UK Labour man than the Tory.

The result is much better than News Limited would have had us all believe.

In 1996, we were reduced to 49 seats and 46.37% of the two-party vote and at the next election in 1998, we came within a whisker, with 50.98% of the two-party vote and won back 18 seats, but 67 seats left us short of victory.

In 2004, we won 60 seats and 47.26% of the two-party vote and in 2007 we all remember that Labor won 52.70% and 83 seats as Rudd coasted to victory.

This time we're set for roughly 57 seats and 46.67% of the 2pp.

In vote terms, we're nearer 96, but in seat terms, we're just behind 04. If anyone tells you that Labor's gone for a generation, they're simply wrong, and if Abbott fails to deliver, the Liberals can lose.


CENTRAL COAST MATTERS

For local central coast matters, McKinna and Bracken had an influence, but only to guarantee the seats to the Liberals.

Robertson is a narrow Liberal win. This is in no small way due to McKinna's 9% - taken from Labor and the Liberals, but more from Labor - flowing mostly to the Liberals.

Dobell is still very tight, but the Liberal will most likely win. Bracken's 8% is a big factor here too.

These guys weren't independents; they were shills. They did a deal to guarantee that tight contests will swing to the Liberals.

I'd have had a lot more respect for Lawrie in particular if he had actually asked the parties to speak to a set of issues he identified rather than just mouthing meaningless motherhood statements and then doing a deal with the Libs. He's either a patsy or (if he thought he was a chance of winning) a dope.


THE SENATE

None of this is the real story though; once Rudd's honeymoon ebbed, the only interest in the House result was the degree. It's in the Senate that the action is on.

The main thing is the rise of Palmer and success of a number of vote-harvesting microparties. Results are far from certain - there are a couple of weeks of counting yet, and it's going to be messy in some states, but it looks like some microparties are a chance of getting up. They get votes through having a bunch of tiny parties with names that attract the wayward voter's pencil and harvest just enough votes to stay in the race and through complicated cross-preferencing arrangements they hope to get one of them to stay in long enough to get someone elected. It's gaming the system, not democracy.

In NSW, the Liberal Democratic Party (pro-gun 'libertarians'; basically not far from being a socially liberal tea party group) took advantage of being drawn in group A and won nearly 9% and will be in the Senate. Because of the resulting preference flows, the Libs knock off the Greens for the 6th spot, so there are 4 right wing senators from NSW and only the 2 Labor senators on the left.

In Queensland, Palmer Party polled 10% and Glenn Lazarus will get up, in the place of a Labor senator.

In Tassie, Palmer Party polled 7% and will knock off a Labor senator.

In ACT, there's a faint possibility that the Greens might knock off the Liberal Senator, while in the NT it's one Labor, one CLP as it has ever been.

SA is a mess. Xenophon polled 26%, and because he knocked the Labor and Liberals' primaries around so badly, Labor missed out on electing even a second senator (it's the bible-bashing SDA droog Don Farrell, so I'm not exactly crying about that) but unfortunately Family First are the beneficiary because we preferenced them ahead of the Libs and Xenophon. Family First get the gig despite having received only 3.77% of the vote.

WA is worse. Some group called the Australia Sports Party look like they're up, alongside 3 Libs, one Labor and one Green. I'm pretty politically aware (as you will all know) but I'd literally never heard of these guys. It's a fair bet that most of WA hadn't either, their primary vote count is just 1908 - 0.22% of the vote.

They harvested votes from:
  • Australian Voice Party
  • Rise Up Australia Party
  • Stable Population Party
  • Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party
  • Family First Party
  • Wikileaks Party
  • Shooters and Fishers Party
  • Help End Marijuana Prohibition Party
  • Animal Justice Party
  • Sex Party
  • Australian Independents
  • Australian Christians
  • No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics
  • Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party
  • Liberal
  • Liberal Democrats
  • Stop The Greens
  • Smokers Rights
  • Australian Democrats

In Victoria, same mess, but this time it's 2 Libs, 2 Labor and a Green, with the Libs missing out to another microparty I've never heard of; the Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party. They've polled 11232 votes (0.52%) and then harvested from:
  • Bank Reform Party
  • Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party
  • Help End Marijuana Prohibition Party
  • Shooters and Fishers Party
  • Stable Population Party
  • Senator Online
  • Rise Up Australia
  • Building Australia Party
  • Bullet Train For Australia
  • Family First
  • Citizens Electoral Council
  • No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics
  • Palmer United Party
  • Katter's Australian Party
  • Democratic Labor Party (who must be feeling pretty ripped off they couldn't pull the same shit as last time when they were elected on just 2.33% but this time miss out to someone with not even a quarter of that)
  • Socialist Equality Party
  • Sex Party
  • Australian Voice Party
  • Wikileaks Party
  • Drug Law Reform
  • Stop CSG
  • Animal Justice Party
  • Australian Independents
They're grab bags of microparties and scraps off the big parties. These are accidental Senators.

In WA a party that polled not even two thousand votes might get a senator, while Labor polled nearly a quarter of a million and will also get only one senator.

That's not proportional representation, it's gaming the system.

This is why Senate voting needs reform; voters should be able to direct their preferences above the line rather than relying on the parties to direct their votes.
 

hasbeen

Well-Known Member
"That's not proportional representation, it's gaming the system.

This is why Senate voting needs reform; voters should be able to direct their preferences above the line rather than relying on the parties to direct their votes."


That's right, when things aren't going your way, change the rules.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
The Libs have lost out in Victoria, it's probably Palmer losing out in WA; it's not Labor that's missing out on the last spot.

Are you going to defend people getting into the Senate on fractions of a percentage point? Are you going to defend tablecloth ballot papers and sneaky back room preference deals? Or are you just going to oppose everything I say out of simple reflex?
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Bets for

1] New Alp Leader .... my pick is Blinky Bill ...[sorry D .. Bill Shorten]

2] Surprise dumping or promotion from the libs for their front bench ... and what will the Phoney do with "Malcolm X" ...

Finally the Dude stops the off the cliff that was believed back in June and TBH it's better to have it this way ...
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
D

On your preferences discussion

You can direct preferences above the line ..

But I would support a system where you could opt to only pick say 10... or whatever number is seen as being reasonable ..
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
D

On your preferences discussion

You can direct preferences above the line ..

But I would support a system where you could opt to only pick say 10... or whatever number is seen as being reasonable ..
No, you can't direct your preferences above the line (you can in NSW and local election, not in the federal election). Only your 1 is counted; thereafter the preferences are distributed according to the Group Ticket Vote lodged by that party or group.

I'd support compulsory preferential voting above the line being an option - you pick the order in which you preference the parties, same as for the lower house, but you only number above the line.

Fewer informal votes, more control over where your vote goes, less influence over the result from backroom powerbrokers.

Simply put, it's more democratic.
 

yellowcake

Well-Known Member
Dibo's thoughtful dissertation about the senate preference structure and results adds so much more to this page than this gas-full gloat:
That's right, when things aren't going your way, change the rules.
I actually resent my tax money paying the wages of these two new senators, with no professed interest in the betterment this country and polling barely half of 1% of the primary vote.
Some of sfcu's political luminaries had discussions on voting below the line. Can't imagine that will ever catch on with all 110 squares needing to be filled to be valid.

On another note, it will be an interesting three years in Canberra if the new member-elect for Fairfax survives the reported re-count! Really extraordinary results nationally for a hastily strung-together party conceived by a fruitcake. (And when I put that notion to the PUP volunteers handing out how to vote cards, they agreed!)
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
New title ....HHHHHhmmmmmm cough cough .. maybe Tony's time ...

Fat Tony and Please Explain both in ... like wow nay double wow .. Fat Tony despises the Phoney and given he can't be sued for anything he says inside the house it good be... good times celebrate come on .... as for Please Explain it could be not stop the boats ...SINK the boats ...

Wonders aloud if the good folk of Queensland are right or wrong ... from the days of Joe and Russ ...

BTW my 88 seats for the libs is looking close ... I may be able to all kneel before a greater God ... well at picking numbers...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
I reckon Plibersek might be a smokie for it. She was *excellent* on ABC last night, she's been a good health minister, she's a good local member and she's a clear speaker. She's not tainted by any of the leadership malarky, and she's as Labor as the day is long.
 

true believer

Well-Known Member
Abuse & poor grammar. You really did miss the Education Revolution didn't you ?


Yes, your turd factor rating is still in the 99 percentile. Keep up in class son, or you'll have to stay behind & catch up.

The Public Service & Unions, rewarding mediocrity.

It must be hard to be such a bitter kiddie . what a base individual rejoicing in people losing their job, possibly their homes . your a real tribute to your kind . you'll be able to give a big fist pump for every individual who life is diminished for your ideology. cheers
 

true believer

Well-Known Member
Plibersek is outstanding ,strong debater but after the sexist treatment gillard received I cant see
a woman running for another decade .
tony burke is who I believe will be the next labor prime minister
I expect shorten to become leader and run at the next election . he'll also oversee the reconstruction
of the alp. the old branch structure is no longer viable in it's current format and needs a 21 century format
get up may well be the needed template to revitalised it.
 

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