"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[FFC Mariner]

That's the sort of thinking that leads to the sound of jackboots

 

[midfielder]

Do you really think there's no ideological base that guides each party? Do you not think that the two parties' basic constituencies (workers for Labor, business for the Liberals) drive a fundamental difference of view on how the world works? Do you deny that there is an essential difference between the parties that revolves around collectivism vs individualism?

You might not subscribe to every individual policy of a party (and personally, I've struggled with the ALP's position on asylum seekers and marriage equality for years) but still firmly believe that the ideological base of the party will necessarily lead to a better government than their opposition.

For that reason, I'll always vote for a Labor candidate even over a 'good' Liberal candidate.

For example, I could never vote for Malcolm Turnbull. He might make nice noises on this or that, but he's still a Lib - he believes in kicking unions apart and leaving workers divided and easy pickings for employers. He desires freedom from government rather than freedom through government - so at his heart he'll choose budget cuts and tax cuts over socialised education and health that provide opportunity and protection for all. His interest is in providing an opening for business and the elite to succeed so we can all get some of the trickle down. Of course, if you feed the horses enough oats, some passes through for the sparrows...

He can make all the nice noises on reconciliation and marriage equality and carbon pricing that he likes; he's still a paid up member of a party that takes what is (to me) an abhorrent position on too many issues to consider voting for them *because of what they believe in*.

Give me Malcolm Turnbull and an endorsed Labor candidate and you won't need to ask me where my pencil is going to hit the paper.

The notion that somehow I'm a sucker or on the dark side for believing in a party is itself pretty naive. It's ignoring some basic facts about those parties and how they govern. It's also leaving yourself open to being convinced by whatever was the most catchy three word slogan during the campaign. Look under the bonnet before you buy.

You only need to spend the day listening to them speak about an issue in Parliament when it's *not* a big set-piece speech - where they're simply talking about what they want to see in policy or legislation - to work out on a pretty basic level who you agree with and who you don't. I'd particularly suggest you do this before suggesting people are somehow ignorant or blind for supporting a party rather than being a swinging voter.

D

My original post was made a tad TIC ....

But your reply kinda wants me to explain my view ... first a little preamble pertaining to my views... I have worked overseas for about four and a half years NZ 2 and a bit, US 1 and a bit & Fiji 1 year... in the US I lived in West Palm Beach and Chicago...also in my mid 20's I lived in a seat called Mitchell that always went with the government that won at the Federal election, and finally worked on Rupert Murdock's personal staff for two years at Cumberland Newspapers ...

In Mitchell at election time we got constant door knocking with various folk wanting our vote and telling their story... so from a strong ALP family I started to hear the views of others and they did not seem the despots we made them out to be...

At News I played touch everyday with a mixed game that took place every day and talked to many reporters from the Tellie, Mirror and ABC and their stories did make you think...

Overseas in the US I could not believe so many people did not vote and so many people were so [looking for words] so so fixed in their views especially about the rest of the world and nothing would change it.... In Fiji I saw two culturals the native and Indian polls apart... The village chief was the sauce of wisdom and all the village voted the way the chief said.... regardless of how poor that advice was...

About this time I started to appreciate what a great system we have and my right to vote was hugely important... that democracy is worth fighting for ... being able to change your views is very important ... not be bias and so on...

I fully respect your decision to support a party however although said as somewhat of a Star Wars joke in join the Force and leave the Dark Side.. I am so thankful Australia allows me the right to change my mind and vote for my own reason who I think is the best... and those News reporters from the late 70's early 80's opened my eyes in many ways to both sides are very similar .

As I said when you don't care who wins as long as IYO who will govern best.... it does as I said set you free to some degree... but as I said huge respect for your decision..

 

[true believer]

mean while .for tonys tough guys ,it's time to bash the indonesian's for stating the obvious about the stupidity of the liberals.
Julie ding bat bishop and old fish net downer rattling the sabre." of coarse we can turn back the boats"
Australian gdp is 12th in the world the indo's about 20 .their expected to suppass us by 2017 in this regard.
it's getting tough for the one policy party.

 

[dibo]

NewsPoll. 50:50.

Game on.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

This is a brilliant post Dibo. Before Q &A I had to listen to my son sprout News limited rhetoric tonight. He's 15, So I can forgive him for being caught up in the simple minded brainwashing or personality politics and negativity campaigns, but I'm going to read him your post. Thank you.

Do you really think there's no ideological base that guides each party? Do you not think that the two parties' basic constituencies (workers for Labor, business for the Liberals) drive a fundamental difference of view on how the world works? Do you deny that there is an essential difference between the parties that revolves around collectivism vs individualism?

You might not subscribe to every individual policy of a party (and personally, I've struggled with the ALP's position on asylum seekers and marriage equality for years) but still firmly believe that the ideological base of the party will necessarily lead to a better government than their opposition.

For that reason, I'll always vote for a Labor candidate even over a 'good' Liberal candidate.

For example, I could never vote for Malcolm Turnbull. He might make nice noises on this or that, but he's still a Lib - he believes in kicking unions apart and leaving workers divided and easy pickings for employers. He desires freedom from government rather than freedom through government - so at his heart he'll choose budget cuts and tax cuts over socialised education and health that provide opportunity and protection for all. His interest is in providing an opening for business and the elite to succeed so we can all get some of the trickle down. Of course, if you feed the horses enough oats, some passes through for the sparrows...

He can make all the nice noises on reconciliation and marriage equality and carbon pricing that he likes; he's still a paid up member of a party that takes what is (to me) an abhorrent position on too many issues to consider voting for them *because of what they believe in*.

Give me Malcolm Turnbull and an endorsed Labor candidate and you won't need to ask me where my pencil is going to hit the paper.

The notion that somehow I'm a sucker or on the dark side for believing in a party is itself pretty naive. It's ignoring some basic facts about those parties and how they govern. It's also leaving yourself open to being convinced by whatever was the most catchy three word slogan during the campaign. Look under the bonnet before you buy.

You only need to spend the day listening to them speak about an issue in Parliament when it's *not* a big set-piece speech - where they're simply talking about what they want to see in policy or legislation - to work out on a pretty basic level who you agree with and who you don't. I'd paparticularly suggest you do this before suggesting people are somehow ignorant or blind for supporting a party rather than being a swinging voter.

 

[hasbeen]

Polls only matter when your side is winning

 

[true believer]

But but labor

 

[true believer]

here is a nice list on climate change denial
there's little doubt that jones , Hadley and the liberals have their snouts in this trough

 

[midfielder]

Never been more confused leading into an election..

Never have I see an opposition leader so reluctant to discuss polices…. Never have I seen a PM who conceder’s himself a God [even Hawkey had nothing on Kev].

Arguably the worst two, [maybe the last election] presentations by two parties I have ever seen…

I feel very uneasy about Tony … and Kev just plain frightens me … a lot actually …

Both IMO are very shallow on policy … Kev is better at pointing out a problem but his ways to solve it are so in the clouds with heaps of political speak… and never before have I seen a PM use another country … Like the Libs will start a war … FFS that is extreme and to re visit constantly OMG that frightens me… for those that say well the question must be asked … HHHHMMMmmmm why do you actually think the Libs will start a war or are that dump …. Like banning the sale of food to their nation as the ALP did could not be said to be a war starter if you wanted to play that particular card…


If you asked me to describe very simply why am I so uneasy … to me it’s because through media say Alan Jones & Mike Carlton you have people that polarise issues and as a society we seem to some extent to polarise almost everything into left or right…. The methods that both parties have used to destroy the character of the other parties leaders HHHHMMMMMmm I just don’t like it…

 

[true believer]

Jones has a conviction for cash
For comment.

 

[true believer]

Tony doesn't believe in a market for an invisible substance.
What idiot thought up that line up for mr tough guy.
So seeing as how electricity is invisable.perhaps
The clown should explain that

 

[dibo]

Tony doesn't believe in a market for an invisible substance.
What idiot thought up that line up for mr tough guy.
So seeing as how electricity is invisable.perhaps
The clown should explain that

...or futures markets.

The thing that annoys me is that this guy has degrees in law and economics and was a Rhodes Scholar; he did a MA in politics and philosophy at Oxford.

Does anyone seriously think he's doesn't know how carbon permits can be traded on an open market?

I don't. I think the truth is worse.

He thinks voters don't understand it so he thinks he can lie about it.

Worse, he thinks that showing that he knows a bit about it will mean that he gets drawn into a discussion on the merits, whereas at the moment he's trying to get the public to think it's some sort of nonsense.

If you're discussing the merits of the policy then you're conceding it some semblance of legitimacy, and that's the last thing he wants.

Better for him that he pretend to be a fool and assume we are all fools too.

If pretends that Government policy is nonsense, he thinks he can put up any nonsense he likes in response and the winner will be the party with the best soundbite because it's all nonsense anyway.

It's a rubbish way to treat voters, it's a completely rubbish way to think about policy and it and he should be binned at the first opportunity.

 

[midfielder]

HHHHMMMMmmmm .... The shoe is kinda on the other foot.... will Rudd the dud ... cause the Libs to dump Tony the pony and replace him with Malcolm X [go look up the name BTW if you don't get it ie the X part] ...

 

[dibo]

NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE A NICKNAME!

 

[midfielder]

NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE A NICKNAME!

WHY

BTW if you don't stop shouting at me I'll tell Mum so there...

 

[true believer]

I would have just gone with he's using capitals. the inner English nazi in him.
would given him an aneurysm.

mean while phoney tonys one policy has been stopped by the new kokoda .
looks like scott morrison won't be tattooing anyone.

rudd 2.0 keeps looking better every day

 

[true believer]

do you think these guys were thinking of phoney tony when they drew this

 

[midfielder]

Well the Dud has done it... if he wins he is the big cheese come what may..

 

[FFC Mariner]

Refugee kids in camps so that these 2 can win their race to the bottom? So proud to be Australian right now

Both parties can f**k right off. Sadly, no sane person could support the Greens so my protest will be to vote for an independent or anyone who isn't one of the above.

C'mon Mr Mayor.

Vote 1, vote football

 

[true believer]

frankly in terms of what needs to get done . asylum seekers is number 567889888897 on the list . labor gets no votes if they
try to do the right thing . where as the liberals have played the race card .whether it be yellow peril, reds under the bed or boat people ,
forever .

good call mr rudd .