Draw for the last 11 games

[pjennings]

Honestly, purists will see the premiership as more important (and I tend to agree with them...)

But just how f**king good was that feeling on 21/4/13. Pure ecstasy.

I'm a purist and prefer the premiership. However, for us last year, with our history, the championship was needed.

When the FFA cup comes in though all that changes. The Championship will be diminished over time as the HAL grows and the importance of the ACL grows.

My read of the spots is :-

Scenario 1 – Premiers, FFA Cup Winners, and 2nd in the regular season are all different Clubs

ACL Spot 1 Premiers

ACL Spot 2 FFA Cup Winners

ACL Spot 3 2nd in the regular season


Scenario 2 – Premiers and FFA Cup Winners are the same Club

ACL Spot 1 Premiers

ACL Spot 2 2nd in the regular season

ACL Spot 3 3rd in the regular season


Scenario 3 – Runners Up and FFA Cup Winners are the same Club

ACL Spot 1 Premiers

ACL Spot 2 FFA Cup Winners

ACL Spot 3 3rd in the regular season

Scenario 4 – Third Place and FFA Cup Winners are the same Club

ACL Spot 1 Premiers

ACL Spot 2 FFA Cup Winners

ACL Spot 3 2nd in the regular season

 

[VicMariner]

My view is premiership is number 1. FFA cup when running number 2. I see the end of season finals as a mini cup.
I hope the FFA cup finals replace the end of season finals.

Of course every trophy available is worth winning though.

 

[dibo]

Finals are like the League Cup, FFA Cup is the big one.

 

[style_cafe]

hehe I'm looking at your profile picture whilst reading that

Brilliant!!!

 

[bikinigirl]

Has there ever been a poll or debate on this forum on what is considered the biggest achievement, winning the premiership or winning the grand final/championship?

. it has been discussed numerous times ... and to use your words, the biggest achievement would be the premiership. but that does not necessarily reflect the view of the masses - nor the ffa

. considering our history, eenfish has nailed it:

I'd pick premiership. To win the prem means you gotta be the best team over the whole year. Championship is pretty good to have, especially after being so close so many times… but it takes more to win over 27 games than to just win 2/3 in a row.

. i feel a whole lot better knowing that we have won at least one grand final

. logically i think we should be a better chance at winning the grand final considering our status as the financial minnows of the league ... season one being a great example. we were competitive and made a great run to, and through, the finals. our combatants in that game ... the team which breached the salary cap!

 

[bikinigirl]

. the ffa's view on relative importance is skewed however. they claim (repeatedly) that because we are australian the grand final is more important ... and they promote things as such

. their reality is that they make money from the finals series (also consider their re-jigging of the finals series to remove the least popular game - the preliminary final). it is, no doubt, a huge factor in any tv rights deal as well

. they got a lot of mileage out of last year and how so close to the end of the season (two games out perhaps?) any team 'could' have made the finals ... which they claim kept people interested and added to the excitement. thankfully the best two teams played in the grand final - which has been typical

. so is it worth all that for one or two extra games a season? the general public seems to have bought into it. our two biggest crowds last year (actual mariners supporters) ... were probably the grand final and the parade in gosford

. at one of the fan forums pre-season, the ffa reps were asked what they were going to do to promote the premiership to improve crowds throughout the season (rather than having people only interested for the last couple of weeks) and they didn't understand the question

 

[VicMariner]

... and to use your words

It was a poor choice of words on my part.
A more accurate wording of my question would be : What do you prefer to win, premiership or grand final?

It's a bit difficult to answer, I would prefer the premiership because it is the biggest achievement but winning the GF gets greater recognition in the wider community and this leads to greater attendance and memberships.
Like I said earlier, every trophy is worth winning but I'm more satisfied winning the premiership.

 

[Big Al]

I wasn't around then but what got better community recognition.

Winning Premierships or the GF?

I see it a bit like RL. The only thing the premiers are remembered for is choking in the playoffs

 

[Big Al]

Also if premierships are more important than maybe CCM playing in Brisbane is more than an evil rumor

 

[eenfish]

I wasn't around then but what got better community recognition.

Winning Premierships or the GF?

I see it a bit like RL. The only thing the premiers are remembered for is choking in the playoffs

GF by far. I was actually kind of bummed by the lack of fanfare over the premiership, and the fact that every single other fan on any facebook or other social media said that we weren't the real champions and the premiership didn't matter. Then we win the championship and everyone is putting "champions" in quote when talking about us. My theory is: other fans can get f**ked. And also that the FFA is too obsessed with picking up casual sporting fans to emphasise the premiership, trying to make it easier for others to get used to the transfer from rugby/league/afl to sokkah

 

[bikinigirl]

. the premiership is really only going to mean something to those fans that are there week-in, week-out supporting the team. the media (and ffa) focusing on the finals will only perpetuate the importance of the finals

. this in turn takes even more away from the premiership ... because one follows straight after the other - there is no time to celebrate or provide due recognition for the premiers because everybody (including the players, coach and club) are immediately focused on the next game (and there ain't many places that happens)

 

[yellowcake]

Has there ever been a poll or debate on this forum on what is considered the biggest achievement, winning the premiership or winning the grand final/championship?
If so, what was the majority view?

"Achievement" is an interesting concept here.
I'd been stating that the premiership is more important but the championship is more exciting. They're different and both achievements that I can't readily pick between.

I'm leaning towards premiership and I'm happier we've got two of them and one of the other. But (and I'm sure our previous GF history influences this)...
While 2007/08 and 2011/12 were great, 21/04/2013 was an incredible feeling. I still near tear up when I think about it.

 

[dibo]

My biggest and messiest celebration came after winning the league, for what it's worth. Second league wasn't bad either. I think *losing* a GF is probably harder, but I think winning either is sweet.

Put it this way - GF is maybe more worthy of a party, while the League show's you're the best. League is therefore more satisfying, but GF is a single focussed point of release.

 

[bikinigirl]

My biggest and messiest celebration came after winning the league, for what it's worth. Second league wasn't bad either. I think *losing* a GF is probably harder, but I think winning either is sweet.

Put it this way - GF is maybe more worthy of a party, while the League show's you're the best. League is therefore more satisfying, but GF is a single focussed point of release.

. premiership = tantric
. championship = wham, bam, thank-you-ma'am

. is it any wonder the premiership doesn't rate highly in australia?

 

[Lowlander]

GF by far. I was actually kind of bummed by the lack of fanfare over the premiership,

Clearly the FFA see no need for fanfare when they cant be bothered to bring the premiers plate to the game on the very night the premiership is won.......

I think without a relegation/promotion system the premiership is never going to be accepted as being the holy grail.

 

[eenfish]

Clearly the FFA see no need for fanfare when they cant be bothered to bring the premiers plate to the game on the very night the premiership is won.......

I think without a relegation/promotion system the premiership is never going to be accepted as being the holy grail.

To be fair, they had the plate at the Adelaide game where we coulda won the plate if we'd won but we drew, and they didn't have the plate at either Brisbane or Welly when either of us could've won it in week 27.

 

[Jaundice]

I like them both, GF and premeirship that is. Perhaps the premiership doesnt get the recognition/acolades it deserves but this will change. Would be nice to have a 16 team or so comp with everyone playing home and away once as even the 'purists' would have to admit its an unusual if not unfair premiership with teams playing away twice and once at home for some opponents and the somewhat randomness with our current draws.

I enjoy epl and european leagues but I sometimes feel Aus football fans have this inferiority complex where we have to be identical to them in every way. Grand finals to me just seem a part of Australian sporting culture and I feel there is nothing wrong or blasphemous incorporating that into our football. And yes ffa cup I hear you say, well yes I want that too but not as a replacement.

I also wonder with our developing league if interest would nose dive if lets say a team almost had the season wrapped up by this stage of the competition season we are at present. Especially with no relegation fights for survival and what have you.

What if your team has a terrible run at the start of the season, all that would turn up is the rusted on core support for the rest of the year in my opinion.

 

[bikinigirl]

What if your team has a terrible run at the start of the season, all that would turn up is the rusted on core support for the rest of the year in my opinion.

. valid points. the counter argument being that interest (only?) increases at the 'business end' of the season - ie. traditionally crowds are low early in the season. theoretically no finals could be the worst of both worlds

. but if we're talking theories i think it is possible to win the championship without winning a game (i'm sure dibo has done the maths to prove or dis-prove). could a team make 'the six' by only drawing games? they could then make it to the grand final by drawing and going through in a shootout ... they could then be crowned league champions by winning the GF in a shootout even if their opponent had one practically every game they played for the entire season

. that scenario (if possible) wouldn't cause much debate, would it?

 

[nebakke]

Personally, I think the Premiership is the bigger and more satisfying achievement - long-term... But Dibo (and BG) are right, the build up to the Grand Final is more immediate and thus stronger in a sense... It's difficult to maintain that level of excitement over a year (staunchly trying to ignore the tantric remarks here thank you ).
To me, the importance of the championship has more to do with slowly closing down any of the "attacks" that other fans might use... It's really great to have and if we can't have the premiership then the Championship'll definitely do - VicMariner is spot on, any silverware IS worth winning.

Re the thing about having the season stitched up well before comletion, I don't think that has as great an impact as one might expect... I've seen FC Copenhagen do it a couple of times - perhaps not halfway through but definitely early... Focus seems to got towards second of the ladder then... Don't forget, there's still prestige in sitting higher than everyone else. In a sense, I tend to see fotball as a bit of a recursive universe... Each game is a focal point, with it's own tensions and worries... Some of those include the ladder position, but most of them, at-the-time, are about the game itself. Before and after, there's the potential impact of the result, in the calculation, but that's not really what attending the match is about. I certainly know people who attend the games without knowing the ladder at all, really... They go to support the Mariners, to enjoy a game and that's that... The friend that I attend with, when not going with family , is like that.. He likes football, he enjoys a good game, but I'm not sure he's all that on top of the league as such.

So, after that sidetracked diatribe - I prefer the premiership - and as most of the other games sofar this season, I think this weekend will be defining for that... If we can beat the Roar up there, I think we've got a good shot at the premiership. If not, well at least we should have a chance at shooting for second and maybe become successive champions while also qualifying for the ACL again - fingers crossed.

 

[Gratis]

I feel the need to reflect on the strange season this is shaping to be -
this is quite the season of contradictions and wtf's.

eg.
* we've played poorly the bulk of the season yet sit third on the ladder with a game in hand and 2nd for the taking

* we lose players to overseas or injury yet don't recruit to replace them at all (Bernie the exception)

*we have lost the least amount of games yet have scored the fewest goals except for one other team

* we have an owner who challenges the fans to reach 5000 members, succeeds strongly, then says there's not enough to support the club

* we have the best stadium and surface in the country yet move/threaten to move games elsewhere

and the biggest wtf of all -
* Liam Reddy of all people has been one of our most regularly capped MoM players this season