CCM v $ity - Rd 6

[Big Al]

No reason Nizzy couldn't poach the starting spot from Stens. Better is some regards and Stens is superior in others. Its actually something i would test out at training.

Not after the start Stens and Olli have had. Stens is allowed to be the bully and Olli the conductor. If you put Niz back there you loose alot of physicality which is a huge part of our game is breaking up the play and getting the ball back.
Not shots at Niz. You need a good sub for injury cards etc. I don’t like him on right wing either. Had great passing and dribbling skills but not quick enough for a winger. He’s going to be a very handy player and will fill the cracks when necessary but i feel he isn’t in the first 11

 

[true believer]

We scrutinise our own quite heavily.

If we look objectively but Jamison or an equal and opposite player gets turned or passed a few times a game and does a few over hit crosses.
Don’t get started on Barbarouses haha.

Every Mariners player is performing statistically similar or better to their opposite but with a little more energy and heart which is why we are up there!

And for approx half the cost of our opponents.

nailed it .

 

[true believer]

The Stensness debate is quite interesting. I remember very clearly the exact same debate about Mile Jedinak on this forum when he was starting off at the Mariners, before when he was taking free kicks.

you can probably throw in sainsbury with that to and mcbreen

 

[true believer]

No reason Nizzy couldn't poach the starting spot from Stens. Better is some regards and Stens is superior in others. Its actually something i would test out at training.

only if you want to scrape nizzy up with a spatula.
horses for courses . stens has owned every opponent physically . thats something only he can
do . and something thing every team needs

 

[marinermick]

you can probably throw in sainsbury with that to and mcbreen

I was making a direct comparison- big, strong holding mids that had their issues passing

 

[onto it]

I was making a direct comparison- big, strong holding mids that had their issues passing

Ahh.... how about the pass that led to the penalty, which turned the game, which our team won...
Beat one player to get the ball, beat 3 with the perfect pass. It was world class in my book.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Stens is a much better pssser than Mile, which was never a high bar. But Mile is/was even stronger and one of the best ball winners you’ll ever see. Like Wan Bisaka on roids.

 

[marinermick]

Ahh.... how about the pass that led to the penalty, which turned the game, which our team won...
Beat one player to get the ball, beat 3 with the perfect pass. It was world class in my book.

What about the his turnover that led to the second goal conceded? I said he has issues with his passing. One or two golden balls in a game where he turnovers more than he should directly points to these issues.

That is why I was comparing him to Mile and Mile made a fruitful overseas career for himself. There is no reason Stens can’t himself if he tightens up the quality of his football when on the ball. The quality of his football when not on the ball is not in doubt.

 

[Ozhammer]

I get all the Stens debate but regarding Wednesday’s game let’s all not lose sight of the fact that Stens had to do his job without Ollie, which was what he pretty much did all last season.

For mine he did more positively than negatively overall, yes two of his turnovers resulted in $ity scoring their goals but he contributed to two of our goals too, so he did redeem himself imho.

 

[Allreet?]

Can someone explain the socceroos cap Olly gave Simmo pre game... Is my memory escaping me? When did matty play for the Socceroos? Or was it just a ollys cap?
I know he played a couple U23 games back in the day.

Played a couple of full Socceroos games under Pim Verbeek, ironically enough...

 

[Ironbark]

I get all the Stens debate but regarding Wednesday’s game let’s all not lose sight of the fact that Stens had to do his job without Ollie, which was what he pretty much did all last season.

For mine he did more positively than negatively overall, yes two of his turnovers resulted in $ity scoring their goals but he contributed to two of our goals too, so he did redeem himself imho.

I was going to write a very similar post until reading this. I think the lack of Ollie this game was the difference

 

[Wombat]

Stens is a much better pssser than Mile, which was never a high bar. But Mile is/was even stronger and one of the best ball winners you’ll ever see. Like Wan Bisaka on roids.

Mile didnt give the ball away like Stens does. Only Melling is a worse short ball passer than Stens. However, Stens is doing SOOO well this season and his engine a mongrel are offsetting his current weakness. Monty occasionally did it as well so he is in pretty good company.

 

[shipwreck]

Stens is one of the first names on Stajs team sheet, he isn't going anywhere

 

[onto it]

Mile didnt give the ball away like Stens does. Only Melling is a worse short ball passer than Stens. However, Stens is doing SOOO well this season and his engine a mongrel are offsetting his current weakness. Monty occasionally did it as well so he is in pretty good company.

It's an interesting debate for sure.
What I can't get is the noise if Stenz, on rare occasions, loses the ball in midfield. This happens in midfield. That's the engine room and the average for possession is 50%, in round figures, over the course of all teams and all seasons. Whether possession is lost via a tackle, intercept or a pass is not relevant to the net result, which is that the other side gets possession.
There seems to be a lot more emotion attached to the pass for some reason.
There are then two points. The first is that Stenz wins a huge amount of possession (highest tackle count in the league last year and probably the highest number of intercepts as well), and seldom has the ball taken off him. He often attracts 3 opposition players (as does DDS, Olli... but we are talking about Stenz here), thereby freeing up two of his team.
The other point is well seen in the lead up to the goal. After Stenz made an errant pass, he nullified the player who received it. There were then 2 opposition players who beat our entire backline, as well as the wingers, and the other DM. I have to ask, what are the centre backs doing if they are not defending? Are they expecting the midfielders to do all their defensive work? Whist the middies are also supposed to be launching attacks?
I personally think the entire back line were more at fault for the goal. It's their job to deal with balls and players who breach the lines. I like the way Rowles and Tonk come out at times but that attack was just too quick for their reactions.
All credit to Victory though, they were sharp. That's football.

 

[Big Al]

It's an interesting debate for sure.
What I can't get is the noise if Stenz, on rare occasions, loses the ball in midfield. This happens in midfield. That's the engine room and the average for possession is 50%, in round figures, over the course of all teams and all seasons. Whether possession is lost via a tackle, intercept or a pass is not relevant to the net result, which is that the other side gets possession.
There seems to be a lot more emotion attached to the pass for some reason.
There are then two points. The first is that Stenz wins a huge amount of possession (highest tackle count in the league last year and probably the highest number of intercepts as well), and seldom has the ball taken off him. He often attracts 3 opposition players (as does DDS, Olli... but we are talking about Stenz here), thereby freeing up two of his team.
The other point is well seen in the lead up to the goal. After Stenz made an errant pass, he nullified the player who received it. There were then 2 opposition players who beat our entire backline, as well as the wingers, and the other DM. I have to ask, what are the centre backs doing if they are not defending? Are they expecting the midfielders to do all their defensive work? Whist the middies are also supposed to be launching attacks?
I personally think the entire back line were more at fault for the goal. It's their job to deal with balls and players who breach the lines. I like the way Rowles and Tonk come out at times but that attack was just too quick for their reactions.
All credit to Victory though, they were sharp. That's football.

It’s not loosing the ball but where and how. He looses it when originally under no pressure or trying a poor pass that when turned over is costly.
If he turned it over on the pass that lead to our second goal it’s no biggie as It’s the position on the Field where it’s lost and ability to cover. He needs to cut out the mistakes where he exposes the back 4. Sometimes he plays around with it a bit and makes sloppy passes. When he fixes that he will be awesome

 

[Ancient Mariner]

It’s not loosing the ball but where and how. He looses it when originally under no pressure or trying a poor pass that when turned over is costly.
If he turned it over on the pass that lead to our second goal it’s no biggie as It’s the position on the Field where it’s lost and ability to cover. He needs to cut out the mistakes where he exposes the back 4. Sometimes he plays around with it a bit and makes sloppy passes. When he fixes that he will be awesome

I suspect it was my earlier post that kicked off this discussion. I was not intending it to be the basis of a criticism of Stens who., by the way, I think has progressed extremely fast in his abilities. The point I was making was that he made a few weak passes as noted in the above quoted post by Big All and I hoped that it was a one off and also hoped that it would disappear from his game.
Stens has the makings of a traditional strong arm DM and is a vital part of the team, Nizzy has the potential to be a great creative DM and is also a vital part of our machine. Janota appears to be pure class, Olly is Olly and DDS is brilliant.
Five starting players for four spots, the discussion is about who makes the best fit, not amplifying the perceived mistakes.

All are more than acceptable and unlike our position last year would probably walk into any other A League club lineup.

Just trying to be clear.

 

[pjennings]

I suspect it was my earlier post that kicked off this discussion. I was not intending it to be the basis of a criticism of Stens who., by the way, I think has progressed extremely fast in his abilities. The point I was making was that he made a few weak passes as noted in the above quoted post by Big All and I hoped that it was a one off and also hoped that it would disappear from his game.
Stens has the makings of a traditional strong arm DM and is a vital part of the team, Nizzy has the potential to be a great creative DM and is also a vital part of our machine. Janota appears to be pure class, Olly is Olly and DDS is brilliant.
Five starting players for four spots, the discussion is about who makes the best fit, not amplifying the perceived mistakes.

All are more than acceptable and unlike our position last year would probably walk into any other A League club lineup.

Just trying to be clear.

To my mind sadly Nizzy is the one to miss out though he is deserving of a spot. I would play

Left to right

Janota ---Ollie--Stens--DDS

Ollie to play deeper and protect the CBs stens to break up play. DDS and Janota free to swap.

After that Nizzy is the first on for any midfielder. He fits like for like for anyone except Janota where you just swap wings with DDS. Then you have Casella as another wide option and Ballard as another central option. And I haven't even mentioned Jankovic since I have no idea how he plays and where to fit him.

You can also play Bouman in the mids but I prefer him further forward

 

[scottmac]

What about the his turnover that led to the second goal conceded? I said he has issues with his passing. One or two golden balls in a game where he turnovers more than he should directly points to these issues.

That is why I was comparing him to Mile and Mile made a fruitful overseas career for himself. There is no reason Stens can’t himself if he tightens up the quality of his football when on the ball. The quality of his football when not on the ball is not in doubt.

I said exactly this before the game in that Stens had been sloppy with the ball but he has the ability to excel in the position but needs the exposure. He's young and with time I think he'll be better than Mile was. He's definitely ahead in his career trajectory than Mile. He'll be a better player for that game because he can look at where he's shining and where he needs to work.

 

[scottmac]

To my mind sadly Nizzy is the one to miss out though he is deserving of a spot. I would play

Left to right

Janota ---Ollie--Stens--DDS

Ollie to play deeper and protect the CBs stens to break up play. DDS and Janota free to swap.

After that Nizzy is the first on for any midfielder. He fits like for like for anyone except Janota where you just swap wings with DDS. Then you have Casella as another wide option and Ballard as another central option. And I haven't even mentioned Jankovic since I have no idea how he plays and where to fit him.

You can also play Bouman in the mids but I prefer him further forward

Agree. We're probably lucky that Nizzy’s coming off injury because on performance he's earned the starting spot. This will give Janota the chance to take it.

 

[onto it]

I said exactly this before the game in that Stens had been sloppy with the ball but he has the ability to excel in the position but needs the exposure. He's young and with time I think he'll be better than Mile was. He's definitely ahead in his career trajectory than Mile. He'll be a better player for that game because he can look at where he's shining and where he needs to work.

If they play it right, I think the club stands to do well out of a transfer when the boy is ready.
Apart from the excellent results, this could well be the start of a new golden era for the club. But am I getting ahead of myself...?