CCM v $ity - Rd 6

[onto it]

To my mind sadly Nizzy is the one to miss out though he is deserving of a spot...

For me Nizzy has amazing skills and is progressing rapidly. His strengths are dribbling and tenacity. His obvious weakness is his lack of size.
So, while he is not a great interceptor of the high ball or has the mass to push big attackers off the ball (so cannot match Olli, Stenz or Jano...) he is brilliant at working in tight spaces.
I do think he would be best suited to a number 10 role than a defensive midfielder position. In a 4231 he would be the man for the centre of the 3.
I think in the current 442 he needs to be on a wing with freedom to come in and create havoc behind the strikers.

 

[greenlig]

Apart from the excellent results, this could well be the start of a new golden era for the club. But am I getting ahead of myself...?

Mate you're allowed to think it, but to say it out loud?? Bold.

I do think he would be best suited to a number 10 role than a defensive midfielder position

I'm not sure he's creative enough? He also doesn't have a shot on him as far as I can see. Strikes me as an industrious, technical centre mid.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

For me Nizzy has amazing skills and is progressing rapidly. His strengths are dribbling and tenacity. His obvious weakness is his lack of size.
So, while he is not a great interceptor of the high ball or has the mass to push big attackers off the ball (so cannot match Olli, Stenz or Jano...) he is brilliant at working in tight spaces.
I do think he would be best suited to a number 10 role than a defensive midfielder position. In a 4231 he would be the man for the centre of the 3.
I think in the current 442 he needs to be on a wing with freedom to come in and create havoc behind the strikers.

His strengths are his ability to read a game, his stamina, his quickness and a good quick pass. His defending is also good. His lack of size has not been shown to be a weakness and he has won more balls in the air than he has had a right to. The only weakness that I have seen is his shooting ability. I have said the same about DDS's shooting ability. Maybe it is there and just needs developing.
If he can develop the ability to lay off a pass into space for a striker he could develop into a great #10. Does he need to go overseas to develop some these skills?

 

[greenlig]

I have said the same about DDS's shooting ability.

Interesting that DDS has scored two blinders, and had two really good shots v City that didn't go in. Seems like he's had some coaching in that area. I'd be shook if no-one was spending time teaching them how to kick a ball well.

 

[Big Al]

I suspect it was my earlier post that kicked off this discussion. I was not intending it to be the basis of a criticism of Stens who., by the way, I think has progressed extremely fast in his abilities. The point I was making was that he made a few weak passes as noted in the above quoted post by Big All and I hoped that it was a one off and also hoped that it would disappear from his game.
Stens has the makings of a traditional strong arm DM and is a vital part of the team, Nizzy has the potential to be a great creative DM and is also a vital part of our machine. Janota appears to be pure class, Olly is Olly and DDS is brilliant.
Five starting players for four spots, the discussion is about who makes the best fit, not amplifying the perceived mistakes.

All are more than acceptable and unlike our position last year would probably walk into any other A League club lineup.

Just trying to be clear.

All good, it actually all started from me saying id pick him of Niz in the 11.
I think we’ve just taken it further. The passing was a flaw in his game last year that has not been as evident with Olli around him. First game Olli misses he makes an absolute howler. Issues exist like all players but he is growing. Sort it out and he can be a really good player.

 

[scottmac]

His strengths are his ability to read a game, his stamina, his quickness and a good quick pass. His defending is also good. His lack of size has not been shown to be a weakness and he has won more balls in the air than he has had a right to. The only weakness that I have seen is his shooting ability. I have said the same about DDS's shooting ability. Maybe it is there and just needs developing.
If he can develop the ability to lay off a pass into space for a striker he could develop into a great #10. Does he need to go overseas to develop some these skills?

Interesting thought. Let's say that Nizzy has received the development and coaching that Bowman has, would he have needed to return to Australia? A better touch and finishing and he's better than the aleague.

 

[marinermick]

Interesting thought. Let's say that Nizzy has received the development and coaching that Bowman has, would he have needed to return to Australia? A better touch and finishing and he's better than the aleague.

It could be argued that turned out the way he did because he didn’t receive the “development”. Nizzy is a different player to clones our system is churning out.

 

[scottmac]

It could be argued that turned out the way he did because he didn’t receive the “development”. Nizzy is a different player to clones our system is churning out.

Yes. 100%. I wonder if that's a by-product of his size and not fitting into the desired traits of the over arching curriculum here

 

[Ancient Mariner]

It could be argued that turned out the way he did because he didn’t receive the “development”. Nizzy is a different player to clones our system is churning out.

That is why I suggested OS to develop technical skills.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I think one of his most important skills that I did not mention was his ability to terrorise tiring defences late in a game.

 

[marinermick]

Yes. 100%. I wonder if that's a by-product of his size and not fitting into the desired traits of the over arching curriculum here

My nephew was told by a former Socceroo and NSW U15 coach at the time that he won’t be selected for national titles because of his size. Coach said he was the best player in his age group technically but won’t be picked because he was too small.

Nephew is now playing first grade for Manly while most of the players selected in that team have not progressed.

 

[Josho Howe]

Why does that size BS continue to exist? 2 of the best players in the history of the sport Maradona and Messi - Diego 5 foot 5, Messi 5 foot 7. Football coaches judging young players on their height and not on their skill is ridiculous. The no.10 and wide positions are regularly taken up by players under 6 feet tall. Mertens and Insigne other examples of shorter but elite players. No wonder we haven't developed many world class players in the last 15 years.

 

[scottmac]

Why does that size BS continue to exist? 2 of the best players in the history of the sport Maradona and Messi - Diego 5 foot 5, Messi 5 foot 7. Football coaches judging young players on their height and not on their skill is ridiculous. The no.10 and wide positions are regularly taken up by players under 6 feet tall. Mertens and Insigne other examples of shorter but elite players. No wonder we haven't developed many world class players in the last 15 years.

Most definitely to do with the Aussie "culture" and our inability to value skill over strength. More than likely why football remains a second/ third tier sport. So many kids that belong in top grade teams get ostracised because of it. And then money.........

 

[shipwreck]

I'm 6"2 and 95kg, I always wished I was smaller as I felt my lack of agility was a disadvantage. Always wished did played rugby instead ?

 

[true believer]

Why does that size BS continue to exist? 2 of the best players in the history of the sport Maradona and Messi - Diego 5 foot 5, Messi 5 foot 7. Football coaches judging young players on their height and not on their skill is ridiculous. The no.10 and wide positions are regularly taken up by players under 6 feet tall. Mertens and Insigne other examples of shorter but elite players. No wonder we haven't developed many world class players in the last 15 years.

yeah maradona had a chest like a weight lifter .
he also had oscar ruggeri , sergio batista ,jorge valdano .all of those guys were big men for 80's football players.
what have the technically gifted japanese won ?

 

[Ancient Mariner]

If you want to look at rugby league Tommy Bishop did ok.

 

[onto it]

yeah maradona had a chest like a weight lifter .
he also had oscar ruggeri , sergio batista ,jorge valdano .all of those guys were big men for 80's football players.
what have the technically gifted japanese won ?

You could say, what did the technically gifted small framed Barcelona win? Well, just about everything... multiple times.
Of course herein lies the contradiction of Australian football. A curriculum based on possession as per Cruyff, Guardiola, Bielsa... endeavoring to fit with the old school ethic of grit and determination as the 'aussie way'.
Somehow individual styles and creativity got lost on the way. Nizz and Stenz are both victims of this but have found their own paths.
Nizz has shown that he can overcome all the politics and biases to beat the system and be well on his way to a promising career.
Stenz fought the other bias - that because of his size and strength, he could only be a centre back, probably the reason he quit Australia for NZ after Ufuk Talay as U20 coach only played him in that position. An obvious waste of vision, technical ability and mobility.
What is admirable with both kids is they have shown the character, the guts to play their own games, and both do it very well in my view.
A few goals would be nice.

 

[true believer]

If you want to look at rugby league Tommy Bishop did ok.

yes he played half back . he had cliff watson in the front row , maddison and pierce .
the moral of the story is you need a balance