CCM Supporters Trust

[bikinigirl]

<snip> he is not rich enough to poor as much money into the team as other owners <snip>

 

[turbo]

I see any money available must be used to close the gap as much as possible between us and the better funded clubs.

I agree with your sentiment overall but the quoted bit is at the core of the matter. If ordinary people are kicking in extra funds on top of their memberships they want to see the overall spend go up to get us closer to a level playing field and there isn't any guarantee of that. A new owner doesn't guarantee it either but would have more benefit of the doubt while MC's time has jaded many fans even though it kept the lights on. I don't begrudge him wanting to reduce his losses but it doesn't inspire me to subsidize it.

 

[bikinigirl]

I agree with your sentiment overall but the quoted bit is at the core of the matter. If ordinary people are kicking in extra funds on top of their memberships they want to see the overall spend go up to get us closer to a level playing field and there isn't any guarantee of that. A new owner doesn't guarantee it either but would have more benefit of the doubt while MC's time has jaded many fans even though it kept the lights on. I don't begrudge him wanting to reduce his losses but it doesn't inspire me to subsidize it.

. only i think that part of AM's point is that the benefit of the doubt to new owners is completely blind (particularly with regard to setting things in place now)

... it could just as easily be worse under new owners

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I think you will find that it is the aim of every owner for their club to be self sufficient and not have to put their hands in their pockets more than necessary.
Many here may be surprised how much owners actually fork out each year. I suspect some of the larger clubs may have a greater income from gate receipts and sponsorships and may actually out their hands in their pockets less than owners of smaller clubs. It is something we will probably never know.
If Sydney for example were setting up a fans trust fund I suspect they would be wary of just reducing the owner's contribution.
If we give money to the Academy as some have suggested the same question may be asked of Anton. Will he contribute less?
I am pretty sure no owner expects to make a dividend from a club. Any who are looking to make a quid will expect to do it when they make a capital gain when they sell the club when the League grows.
The argument I am trying to make is that any owner will be no different to Mike. There are some out there who will invest more money to achieve success, in the hope that over time this success will be the way for the club to be self sufficient. But in the long term they will all be looking for their club to be self sufficient.
Many owners will see that having a supporters trust fund available is a way to achieving self sufficiency for the club, whether they have deep pockets or not.
The Trust will have work towards attaining a say in the management and even ownership rights in return for any contribution.
Yes, I am saying that if Mike or someone new is the owner it will not answer the questions being raised here.
I am also pointing out that we are doing ok under Mike compared to the Jets under Lee and the Roar under the Bakries.
From all that I hear bills are being paid. Yes, they are being written off against profits in MC's accounts.

A question to consider, when we were shit many blamed Charlesworth. Do you also wish to Blame him now that we are doing well?

The take home message is do not let your individual likes and dislikes talk down what may be an opportunity for this Club to be a leader in football in this country.

It may not work, but I want to see it have every opportunity of success. I want my descendants to be able to say their father, grandfather whatever was a foundation member of this great Club and the trust that made it great.

 

[bikinigirl]

. i think the crux of the matter is that nobody wants to put money in to maintain the status quo* - the money needs to be seen to be doing some good ... for the Club**

* to avoid unnecessarily muddying the waters i am excluding the recent on pitch success
** in this instance Club does not equal Mike (which appears to be the sticking point for more than a few without further clarity)

 

[bikinigirl]

. by the way, i am not being deliberately argumentative

. this is serious, people have legitimate concerns - it is all new and it needs to be done right. i don't think people will disagree with that

. so in depth discussion of people's reservations are necessary to make this thing viable

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Done but I accidentally hit send on the specifics of spending. Apologies, Mark if/when you read this:

My selection of “salary cap“ spending suggestion was - nembers vote on the position that they feel most requires strengthening and the funds are allocated to be spent there.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

. i think the crux of the matter is that nobody wants to put money in to maintain the status quo* - the money needs to be seen to be doing some good ... for the Club**

* to avoid unnecessarily muddying the waters i am excluding the recent on pitch success
** in this instance Club does not equal Mike (which appears to be the sticking point for more than a few without further clarity)

No pun intended, but it’s clearly a trust issue.

Obviously some of our community feel betrayed by MC and won’t go into business with him, but I’m not sure this is an accurate way to see the trust.

Unless I’m misunderstanding, for myself, any MC issues become moot if the trust is set up to function with enough autonomy around how and when it spends its funds. And this is what Mark and co) are working to do.

Look forward to Mark weighing in to clarify.

 

[bikinigirl]

No pun intended, but it’s clearly a trust issue.

. i don't believe you

 

[bikinigirl]

Unless I’m misunderstanding, for myself, any MC issues become moot if the trust is set up to function with enough autonomy around how and when it spends its funds. And this is what Mark and co) are working to do.

. whereas my understanding is that you would be buying part of a business ... a minority part. the running of that business will still be governed primarily by the majority owner/s

. this is where the trust issue really comes in

. i know that a co-op or other trust is not exactly the same as a typical corporate arrangement but i am yet to see how it could work any other way. if Mark can pull off autonomy ... he deserves far more credit than i am giving him already

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I suspect it will be quite a while before the Trust will be in a position to buy a part of the Club. It may be given a share, it may get a seat on the board or as what I suspect most likely it will be a benefactor at arms length with some access to those making decisions.
A lot of water to go under the bridge.

 

[bikinigirl]

I suspect it will be quite a while before the Trust will be in a position to buy a part of the Club. It may be given a share, it may get a seat on the board or as what I suspect most likely it will be a benefactor at arms length with some access to those making decisions.
A lot of water to go under the bridge.

. fair enough

 

[marinermick]

I think you will find that it is the aim of every owner for their club to be self sufficient and not have to put their hands in their pockets more than necessary.
Many here may be surprised how much owners actually fork out each year. I suspect some of the larger clubs may have a greater income from gate receipts and sponsorships and may actually out their hands in their pockets less than owners of smaller clubs. It is something we will probably never know.
If Sydney for example were setting up a fans trust fund I suspect they would be wary of just reducing the owner's contribution.
If we give money to the Academy as some have suggested the same question may be asked of Anton. Will he contribute less?
I am pretty sure no owner expects to make a dividend from a club. Any who are looking to make a quid will expect to do it when they make a capital gain when they sell the club when the League grows.
The argument I am trying to make is that any owner will be no different to Mike. There are some out there who will invest more money to achieve success, in the hope that over time this success will be the way for the club to be self sufficient. But in the long term they will all be looking for their club to be self sufficient.
Many owners will see that having a supporters trust fund available is a way to achieving self sufficiency for the club, whether they have deep pockets or not.
The Trust will have work towards attaining a say in the management and even ownership rights in return for any contribution.
Yes, I am saying that if Mike or someone new is the owner it will not answer the questions being raised here.
I am also pointing out that we are doing ok under Mike compared to the Jets under Lee and the Roar under the Bakries.
From all that I hear bills are being paid. Yes, they are being written off against profits in MC's accounts.

A question to consider, when we were shit many blamed Charlesworth. Do you also wish to Blame him now that we are doing well?

The take home message is do not let your individual likes and dislikes talk down what may be an opportunity for this Club to be a leader in football in this country.

It may not work, but I want to see it have every opportunity of success. I want my descendants to be able to say their father, grandfather whatever was a foundation member of this great Club and the trust that made it great.

I put it to you that we are doing well for the following reasons:
1. A coach who we paid the minimum amount of money to and made a gamble on is finally doing well. The last three gambles did not pay off.
2. The lower salary cap with Covid has brought teams in line with our wages making us competitive
3. Anton is funding and running the academy.

Therefore I believe MC has lucked on the first two points and should be grateful to Anton for the last.

I do not need to list the number of bat shit ideas we have had to endure the last few years that has cost MC more money than it should have. Money that could have been used to a full salary cap.

I won’t put my hard earned money into a venture with this sort of history of weird arse spending and lack of focus on the actual football department.

 

[FFC Mariner]

I put it to you that we are doing well for the following reasons:
1. A coach who we paid the minimum amount of money to and made a gamble on is finally doing well. The last three gambles did not pay off.
2. The lower salary cap with Covid has brought teams in line with our wages making us competitive
3. Anton is funding and running the academy.

Therefore I believe MC has lucked on the first two points and should be grateful to Anton for the last.

I do not need to list the number of bat shit ideas we have had to endure the last few years that has cost MC more money than it should have. Money that could have been used to a full salary cap.

I won’t put my hard earned money into a venture with this sort of history of weird arse spending and lack of focus on the actual football department.

I'd back Anton and the academy over giving anything to MC.

 

[scottmac]

I'd back Anton and the academy over giving anything to MC.

I'm just not sure that backing an academy or the npl with $1 mill of supporters money is bang for buck. Not sure what the upside is or the incentive to continue handing it over. Let's say you get the best academy from the resultant funding but you still have a cluster f**k of an owner operating in the way of mate has four the past 5yrs. Then the fans are funding the next generation of players for other clubs.
"I'd really like to thank the Mariners academy for the opportunity they've provided me but the offer to learn under so and so was to good to refuse".
Like MM said we've lucked out with Staj and the reduction in cap (wsw......) but you can't pull an Arnie or Staj out of your arse every time.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I'd back Anton and the academy over giving anything to MC.

Interesting if you care to remember it was Charlesworth who brought out Phelan who contributed a great amount to the academy that Anton was then able to support.
Many bad decisions have been made as those in poor have learnt what running a football club was all about.
Coach appointments have been our biggest problems.
From the word go Charlesworth made it clear that the Club would have to be self funding.
He has put in a lot of money to attempt to achieve that end and now realised that his wallet is not big enough.
He has run the Club at arms length and a lot of people have wasted a lot of his money in the learning process.
You could criticise the appointment of Moss, but he came highly recommended by our most successful coach.
Wlamsley was appointed above his competence.
The squad that was funded under Okon was quality apart from one striker and an arrogant coach.
Mulvey talked the talk and I was at the meeting where fans were excited by his appointment. Another disaster.
I agree that we got lucky with Staj. The biggest favour FFA did to us.
Mike Charlesworth has made some good decisions and some poor ones. He has taken some good advice and some bad advice.
You can blame him for Harry Redknap but you also must give him credit for Mike Phelan (ask Monty whether that was a good decision or not).
He has supported Shaun through thick and thin and it is not a matter of backing Anton over Charlesworth as Charlesworth appointed him as his own local representative with management decision function.
Through it all he has paid the bills and kept us out of the red.
His decisions have not always been correct and the buck does stop at the ultimate decision maker. However after a very rough road for all concerned we are now in a good place and I personally think we owe him thanks rather than brickbats.
It is easy to lay the blame at one person's door but it is lazy.
I am thankful to him for making it possible for us to still be functioning and at last successful.
I could go through past posts for those here who were outspoken in their criticism of him not selling to Lee. Thank goodness he did not. I doubt the powers that be would have supported this club like they are supporting the Jets.

I guess haters are going to hate and not be changed by anything I can say. It is an emotional sport and emotions run high. I have made my position quite clear I believe.
It is now a time for some serious planning and thought. The future ownership of the Club is not the most important decision in front of us now while we are discussing setting up the Trust. The issues being raised here about Charlesworth will apply to whoever owns the Club and should not distract us from the issue at hand.

I have said enough.

 

[marinermick]

I for one was critical of him not selling to Lee and still am. No one predicted Trump coming and crippling plenty of Chinese businesses just as no one predicted that Peter Turnbull would be screwed by the GFC.

However bad Newcastle has been the last few years, they have been more successful than us.

And I think you are way off the mark about Phelan, the academy and Monty’s view of Phelan. It was an absolute clusterf$&k under Phelan that only changed when Anton came in, Schembri oversaw the program and Monty became technical director.

 

[FFC Mariner]

2,000 people at $500 = $100,000 not a million. Buys very little at AL level but can move the dial in NPL. If we end up in NPL 1 there are some big budgets in there and we will need all the help we can get.

 

[scottmac]

2,000 people at $500 = $100,000 not a million. Buys very little at AL level but can move the dial in NPL. If we end up in NPL 1 there are some big budgets in there and we will need all the help we can get.

You might want to do your maths again bud

 

[FFC Mariner]

You might want to do your maths again bud

lol yup. oops