Australia's bid for the 2018 or 2022 World Cup

[curious]

Agree that AFL is massive in NT but is that down to no competition I wonder? What if we played some HAL games or pre season games up there?

One can do what they wish attempting to alter an ingrained culture. The resulting reality is somewhat different. Kinda like saying any sport in any country might dominate because it doesn't have competition from dominant sports from another country. RL isn't about to overtake football in regions of England  and football isn't about to overtake AFL in Darwin/NT or any other region in Australia. Both nations hold their peculiar traditions to a higher value than that of a fickle, changeable mind.

The rewards for someone who cracks the indigenous population for football is massive when you think of their relative ability in the other codes.

The horse bolted many decades ago in that regard and the FFA and football in general has no genuine interest in changing the status quo. Bit late to start now by paying just lip service for the benefit of a WC bid PR stunt. But yes, The success of the indigenous population in Australian sport is highly disproportional to the numbers involved.

 

[midfielder]

Just on the AFL and the indigenous community.... Like many things the AFL say about themselves it is much hyped.... RL without must to do .... actually do heaps in the indigenous Souths are esentially ia an indigenous team in many ways ...

However in Tassie, Vic, SA, NT & WA the indigenous population is way below NSW & QLD...

Also the number of people in NT from NSW & QLD far out number other people who move there...

I read once that if CH 9 ever went head to head to Ch 7 ie RL V AFL ... many say RL would win ... but with only 250, 000 people in total they never tho it worth the effort...

Football too in cranky Frankie has had an Australian coach with an indigenous parent ...

It actually gets on my nerves when a sport claims it has a special relationship with the indigenous community... when most sports try hard...

 

[curious]

No idea what your saying in general about the numbers Mf.
There is truth in your last comment however. Most sports do and have done for decades. Other than the recent lip service for the WC bid propaganda, football I'm afraid, is not among them. Not a sniff of a hint. "The games increasingly valuable contribution to improved health, social and education outcomes for Indigenous Australians through the Indigenous Football Programme." is stated by Nicole Kidman in the WC bid.  Bollocks of the highest order.

If it gets on your nerves, then it's for the wrong reasons.

 

[midfielder]

Curious

I agree with you pretaining to football and what its past history is regarding the indigenous community....

My comment in regards numbers is that by a fair bit the % indigenous population living in NSW & QLD is more than the other statrs... The AFL openly claim in the Vic media they are the game that cares for the indigenous community well beyond other sports... when in fact they do a lot in the NT .. they also have programs regarding the treatment of indigenous players ... my comment amoung others was that RL did / does far more than AFL for the indigenous community with little fanfair or back patting...What gets on my nerves is sports that claim they are special in this area...

 

[Jesus]

Hardly enough aboriginals in NT to be bothered i think is what midfielder is saying by the numbers, can get more aboriginals playing by working hard in sydney

 

[dibo]

I reckon there are more indigenous kids playing football and RL in NSW than there would be playing AR in the NT - the NT's total population is less than that of the Central Coast. Their indigenous population of the NT is a third that of NSW.

 

[curious]

My point was not a debate about how many Aboriginals are in each state, it was about the FFA's extreme bending of the truth. There is no Indigenous Football Programme (one tiny round robin carnival in a lifetime doesn't equate to a programme) and no plans to extend the Townsville PR/photo shoot opportunity, and no  "Also the games increasingly valuable contribution to improved health, social and education outcomes for Indigenous Australians through the Indigenous Football Programme." A more fictional statement could not be imagined.

The feeling on the ground is that the Indigenous population have only been used as a political tool for the WC bid, with no evidence of further plans and Football never to be seen again now that the purpose has been served. What I've seen myself points to it being close to the mark.

Furthermore, Football and it's participants in Australia have to decide if it wishes to include the Indigenous population in it's sport. If so, best start eh, as it's half a century behind the other codes and there's a mountain of ground work to do over future decades, and don't forget not to exclude them at the grass roots level through resistance to inclusion. If not, don't bullshite to them by using them when it suits as they're quite happy sticking to sports where they feel welcome.

 

[Jesus]

My point was not a debate about how many Aboriginals are in each state, it was about the FFA's extreme bending of the truth. There is no Indigenous Football Programme (one tiny round robin carnival in a lifetime doesn't equate to a programme) and no plans to extend the Townsville PR/photo shoot opportunity, and no  "Also the games increasingly valuable contribution to improved health, social and education outcomes for Indigenous Australians through the Indigenous Football Programme." A more fictional statement could not be imagined.

The feeling on the ground is that the Indigenous population have only been used as a political tool for the WC bid, with no evidence of further plans and Football never to be seen again now that the purpose has been served. What I've seen myself points to it being close to the mark.

Furthermore, Football and it's participants in Australia have to decide if it wishes to include the Indigenous population in it's sport. If so, best start eh, as it's half a century behind the other codes and there's a mountain of ground work to do over future decades, and don't forget not to exclude them at the grass roots level through resistance to inclusion. If not, don't bullshite to them by using them when it suits as they're quite happy sticking to sports where they feel welcome.

But again, if the ffa or football in general has programs for aboriginal kids in sydney, then those programs would have more effect on "aboriginals" than the NT stuff. I dont think the FFA specifically said they had large programs for isolated aboriginies?

I am sure there is a football club in sydney focusing on aboriginies, the same way there is one focusing on african immigrants.

 

[scottmac]

My point was not a debate about how many Aboriginals are in each state, it was about the FFA's extreme bending of the truth. There is no Indigenous Football Programme (one tiny round robin carnival in a lifetime doesn't equate to a programme) and no plans to extend the Townsville PR/photo shoot opportunity, and no  "Also the games increasingly valuable contribution to improved health, social and education outcomes for Indigenous Australians through the Indigenous Football Programme." A more fictional statement could not be imagined.

The feeling on the ground is that the Indigenous population have only been used as a political tool for the WC bid, with no evidence of further plans and Football never to be seen again now that the purpose has been served. What I've seen myself points to it being close to the mark.

Furthermore, Football and it's participants in Australia have to decide if it wishes to include the Indigenous population in it's sport. If so, best start eh, as it's half a century behind the other codes and there's a mountain of ground work to do over future decades, and don't forget not to exclude them at the grass roots level through resistance to inclusion. If not, don't bullshite to them by using them when it suits as they're quite happy sticking to sports where they feel welcome.

One tiny round robin carnival =

Proud Parent said  | July 10th 2009 @ 3:28pm | Report comment

I would like to congratulate the FFA & their State Representatives for putting together the Indigenous Football Festival just held in Townsville. There was a lot of positives to come out of this festival for reasons other than finding the next Dodd or North ect.. My 13 yr son came back with a greater appreciation and understanding of the very real differences and difficulties that some, though not all, Indigenous Youth face to be able to play in any sporting competion, be it Football, (all codes) Tennis, Cricket, Swimming ect.. Some of the players that he met from around the Country had to travel very long distances, both by road and by plane just to get to the Festival. That being Indigenous, was not necessarily idenitified by the shade of a persons skin or a perceived behaviour. He was able to play against boys up to 3yrs his senior, who all played showing fair and good sportsmanship, with no negative episodes from any or the games. Back at the accomodation, he was able to mix easily with boys from other states and he discovered through the many conversations between boys from all over the country, that there was a real strong kinship throughout many of the family connections and communities. All the boys exchanged playing tops with others and this gesture also gave the boys a sense of pride of belonging to the wider Australian Indigenous Community. This Competition/Festival was not perhaps totally representative of the very best and real talent of actual Indigenous playing football young men, but hopefully in time and with all that FFA will learn from this the first tournament, there is room for improvement. Our son has come back a Taller and Prouder young man, who will go back to his Club and School Teams, happy to share his experiences and that of the exciting future of Inigenous Football that will descend onto Australia in the years to come. Lets hope that as the word spreads throughout the sporting and school arenas, that more and more Indigenous players come forward to trial out for next years Tournament. Thankyou FFA and all your dedicated staff for a wonderful experience.


Reply

Clearly it looks that the FFA has started something that may grow to be bigger than anything else done for the indigenous population by any other sport. Note i say grow and harbour no ideas that it is in its current form anything other than a round robin tournament.
Everything starts somewhere and with a competition that is only 5 years old and an organisation taking leaps and bounds in the right direction i am proud that they have got this together earlier rather than later.

You say that the indigenous population would be happy sticking to sports that make them feel welcome. Tell me are you Aboriginal? And if not how do you then speak on their behalf? How many Indigenous Australians have you interviewed to come up with the assumption that they do not feel welcomed by the round ball code?

 

[curious]

But again, if the ffa or football in general has programs for aboriginal kids in sydney, then those programs would have more effect on "aboriginals" than the NT stuff. I dont think the FFA specifically said they had large programs for isolated aboriginies?

I am sure there is a football club in sydney focusing on aboriginies, the same way there is one focusing on african immigrants.

I'm not talking about NT in particular, jesus, I'm speaking of all regional Australia where the majority reside. Only a small proportion are in Sydney.

 

[curious]

i am proud that they have got this together earlier rather than later

You say that the indigenous population would be happy sticking to sports that make them feel welcome. Tell me are you Aboriginal? And if not how do you then speak on their behalf? How many Indigenous Australians have you interviewed to come up with the assumption that they do not feel welcomed by the round ball code?

Errrr, how about assist with the on the ground organisation of the IFF, regional and local level football in general and assist Aboriginal kids gain opportunity in football and other sports. Fighting the brick wall of bigotry each freaken day. Hearing too often " We really don't need those black c**** in the club?" "You can't distribute that IFF info to the Aboriginal kids or some of the white kids and parents will get angry that it's not for them too". Ect ect ect ect ect. You won't like what I have to say, but shall i go on?

All on the ground at grass roots level and not sitting at the coast on a forum many hundred klms away from the reality of it all, thinking we know everything because the FFA propaganda machine tells me so.

In answer to your question, by now, many hundred. Not interviewed of course, as you sarcastically asked, but does dealing with and assisting on a regular basis count? And no. it's no damned assumption, it's reality. Something to be proud of, you think?

BTW........football isn't 5 years old in Oz. Like every other sport in this country it has had the opportunity to include the Indigenous population for many decades but has chosen not to. Not until a WC hosting bid, that is.

 

[scottmac]

i am proud that they have got this together earlier rather than later

You say that the indigenous population would be happy sticking to sports that make them feel welcome. Tell me are you Aboriginal? And if not how do you then speak on their behalf? How many Indigenous Australians have you interviewed to come up with the assumption that they do not feel welcomed by the round ball code?

Errrr, how about assist with the on the ground organisation of the IFF, regional and local level football in general and assist Aboriginal kids gain opportunity in football and other sports. Fighting the brick wall of bigotry each freaken day. Hearing too often " We really don't need those black c**** in the club?" "You can't distribute that IFF info to the Aboriginal kids or some of the white kids and parents will get angry that it's not for them too". Ect ect ect ect ect. You won't like what I have to say, but shall i go on?

All on the ground at grass roots level and not sitting at the coast on a forum many hundred klms away from the reality of it all, thinking we know everything because the FFA propaganda machine tells me so.

In answer to your question, by now, many hundred. Not interviewed of course, as you sarcastically asked, but does dealing with and assisting on a regular basis count? And no. it's no damned assumption, it's reality. Something to be proud of, you think?

BTW........football isn't 5 years old in Oz. Like every other sport in this country it has had the opportunity to include the Indigenous population for many decades but has chosen not to. Not until a WC hosting bid, that is.

I'm sorry for being sarcastic but being of Aboriginal heritage myself i find it highly offensive for someone to suggest that a whole race of people would rather play sports that are not free from racisim and bigotry themselves. Who are you to say what i feel about my chosen sport or even what i have experienced being involved in it. Neither myself or my daughter have experienced anything like what you tell me and i sure as hell don't feel taken advantage of because the FFA have decided to start a Program or Round robin tournament and broacast the fact to help bring the World Cup to Aus.

If Australia was to gain the world cup and the indigenous program was still up and running, do you think there would still be complaints when the FFA have much more funding available for programs such as this? Would anyone still be worried about supposedly being taken advantage of for 5 mins 12 years ago?

 

[curious]

If you haven't experienced anything like I describe, you're lucky to have very different circumstances to the Indigenous kids I deal with in the far west regions. You are fortunate. Good luck to you.

 

[scottmac]

If you haven't experienced anything like I describe, you're lucky to have very different circumstances to the Indigenous kids I deal with in the far west regions. You are fortunate. Good luck to you.

I am from the far west (north west) region. Narrabri.

 

[Jimmy]

If you haven't experienced anything like I describe, you're lucky to have very different circumstances to the Indigenous kids I deal with in the far west regions. You are fortunate. Good luck to you.

I am from the far west (north west) region. Narrabri.

don't get me started on wee waa and perfleet near taree.

 

[curious]

don't get me started on wee waa and perfleet near taree.

Regarding what?

 

[midfielder]

I heard the BBC news the other day and their sports report said something very similar to this SBS article below...

Is Qtar buying its way into the bidding process ... I think they have a snownball chance of winning the 2022 bid ,,, but they could take us out in the early rounds... The BBC football show said Australia shouild win the 2022 if it was a fair and open vote ... BUT that Qtar had brought the African vote and many Asian votes...


The BBC show said Australia had to survive the first two rounds of voting and that looked very hard now .. what we needed was the European vote to stay in the race long enough to take Qtar out...

Jessie Fink (a long time forum favorite hehehaha) wrote this and it is not  a bad article and follows very much the same line as the BBC football show I heard on the ABC...

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blogs/halftimeorange/qatars-cunning-stymies-australias-bid-prospects-279667

Qatar's cunning stymies Australia's bid prospects

By Half Time Orange - Jesse Fink | 18 January 2010 | 16:08


Late last year HTO attended the Asian Football Confederation Annual Awards in Kuala Lumpur and I was concerned even then by the clear and present danger the Qatar 2022 bid presented to Football Federation Australias World Cup roadshow.


When the roll-up of Asian bids was initially announced Australia, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Qatar Australia stood out as a laydown misere for the next World Cup in the region but slowly momentum is gathering behind the Qatari campaign, fuelled by inexhaustible reserves of oil money and the undeniable cachet of having one of the richest men in the world, the Emir of Qatars son, as its public and very telegenic face.

Frank Lowys billions pale in comparison.

All seemed cordial and civil between the two competing Asian bidders in Malaysia, but this month the Qataris made a preemptive strike, sponsoring the Confederation of African Football (CAF) Congress in Luanda, Angola, on January 29 and in so doing securing exclusive rights to make presentations to African delegates including FIFA executive committee members Issa Hayatou, Hany Abo Rida, Amos Adamu and Jacques Anouma and hand out showbag goodies.

The only activity available to the FFA on its expensive jaunt to south-east Africa was, confirmed CAF general secretary Mustapha Fahmy, to attend as observers, but without the possibility to organise press conferences, distribute any promotional material or erect stands to that effect within the venue and its vicinity on that day.

All of which means Australias bid team is effectively stopped from doing what its supposed to do be doing with part of that massive $45.6 million handout it got from the Rudd Government to schmooze world footballs elite to get us the 2018 or 2022 World Cups.

Despite this, FFA chief executive Ben Buckley maintains Australia will have a strong presence at the event and the pow wow is a great opportunity for us to talk about Australia's bid credentials and support football in Africa.

That strong presence, we are led to believe, is Buckley and his sidekick, head of corporate and public affairs Bonita Mersiades. Socceroos assistant coach Graham Arnold, who was supposed to attend Togo vs Ghana in Cabinda before it was called off, is no longer going.

This comes in the same week that reports linked Qatar with a possible takeover of Manchester United, conveniently apropos of the clubs training camp at the Aspire Academy for Sports Excellence in Doha. Sir Alex Ferguson has also done his bit by saying some suitably nice things about the Qatar 2022 campaign. And, of course, next years Asian Cup takes place in Qatar.

Its clear these guys arent messing around.


The question facing Australia is have we underestimated the threat they pose?

My own view on this issue has been expounded before  I think a pan Arab bid would have been a far better idea, indeed unassailable but the answer is a most resounding yes.

The Australian bid had some energy when it was launched but lately it seems to have been caught up in Qatars slipstream and not enough has been done to address what will be a key issue when FIFAs executive committee convenes to make its decision in December this year: our timezone.

Qatar has a timezone that sits equally well with TV viewing times in Asia and Europe, just three hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time while Australias east coast is a whopping ten which means the only continent to really benefit from having the World Cup in Australia in terms of television is east Asia. Qatar doesnt dramatically inconvenience anyone.

Australia has made much hay about the fact most of the global TV viewing audience for the World Cup resides in Asia and it is undoubtedly true, but what isnt mentioned is the fact that most of FIFAs revenue comes from broadcasting rights and most of that revenue from Europe.

In 2008, according to its annual report, FIFA generated total income of US $987 million, $556 million from the sale of TV rights for the 2010 World Cup. Of that $556 million, $308 million came from Europe and only $113 million from Asia and North Africa.

So it stands to reason that if the 2022 World Cup is hosted by a country with a more complementary timezone to Europe, the monetary value of those TV rights is going to be naturally higher.

As we have seen in Luanda with the antics of the Qatar 2022 bid team, money matters to the CAF and it sure as hell matters to FIFA.

A World Cup in Australia isnt a pipedream by any stretch of the imagination but the campaigning needs to step up and the gloves need to come off.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Isnt this board a Fink free zone?

 

[midfielder]

Isnt this board a Fink free zone?

Now now now.... open your heart maybe the sinner maybe has seen the error of his ways and is  getting better... anyway he is the only one who is writing about it... Accordinging to the BBC Qtar has already brought the African vote in the WC ... further a number of Asian votes...

This has the potential to see us rubbed out in the first two or three rounds of voting.... my sourse here is the ABC where they play the BBC news ... now the guys talking where football people and they said that by any means Australia is the best pick for the WC ... But that Qtar was taking this very seriously and was buying votes and looked like taking us out in the early rounds of voting...

The BBC guys said we need to finish in the top three in the first round of votes as this is where the winner has always come from... Qtar is trying to put itself in that top three position... Further they said the top three raely change and the other behind them get one by one taken out...

 

[dru]

tl;dr