Webber Crashes again...on 2 wheels

[tuftman]

The best way to judge Webber is to compare him to his teammates performace, machinery and engineering are even, driving ability is the deciding factor...Webbers teammates so far:

Minardi 2002
Alex Yoong- Absolute rubbish, struggled to qualify the car
Anthony Davidson-Inexperienced, and underprepared when stepping into Yoongs seat for the Hungarian and Belgian GP's
2002 saw Webber fighting factory teams (Toyota, Jaguar) despite these teams having cars that where far ahead of the Minardi he was driving. He took 5th at the Australian Grand Prix, navigating through the first corner mayhem that saw half the field eliminated, and holding of Mika Salo's Toyota in the dying stages. Was 2 seconds a lap faster then Yoong, and comparing him to Davidson isnt perhaps fair as preparation wasnt on Davidsons side

2003-Antonio Pizzonia- 2003 showed why Webber is rated highly in Formula One circles, he destroyed Pizzonia, who despite being a rookie, had credentials that saw him highly rated by BMW-Williams, Pizzonia was given the flick midseason, and replaced by Brit Justin Wilson. Wilson was exposed as being out of his depth by Webber who made him look 2nd rate many a time

In his 2nd season in Formula 1, Webber finished a creditable 10th, with 17 points, finishing 6th at the Nurburgring, Magny-Cours, and the Hungaroring

2004 saw him paired with Christian Klien in the Jag, which proved to be an uncompetitive, unreliable car. When both cars made it to the finish, Webber was ahead of Klien every time, this attracted the attention of BMW-Williams, whom he signed for the 2005 and 2006 seasons

2005-German Nick Heidfeld was paired with Webber, with the general consensus being that Heidfeld would be the first teammate to test, or even beat Webber with any consistency. This proved to be the case, as with 5 races to go in the season they where neck and neck on 28 points, before Heidfeld was replaced by Pizzonia due to injury. Mark took his first podium of his career at Monaco, overtaking Fernando Alonso audaciously to take 3rd position, Alonso would go on to win the 2005 championship. Webber for the 2nd time in his career beat Pizzonia in a big way, with Pizzonia's Formula One career effectively being ended after this season due to Webbers thrashings

2006-Was paired with 1982 champ Keke Rosbergs son Nico. Nico set the fastest lap of the race at Bahrain(this was Nico's first race in Formula 1), thus proving his credentials. The 2006 Williams was powered by an engine that was the most powerful in the field, but the most unreliable, with Webber only finishing 7/18 races. Mark suffered 7 mechanical failures, was taken out in a first corner pileup at the USGP where he could take none of the blame, and was hit from behind by his teammate at the season ending Brazillian Grand Prix. Mark outdrove his teammate earing 7 points to 4 in a frustrating season. He signed with Red Bull for 2007&2008

2007/08-Consistency of teammates saw him paired with David Coulthard during the previous 2 seasons, with the Scot having an Indian summer of soughts, stating himself that he felt he had never driven better. Red Bull introduced a dual-clutch gearbox for 2007, which proved to be unreliable, Mark finished 12/18 grand prix in 2007, and was beaten in the standings (12th, 10pts), compared to DC (10th, 14 points). He finshed 3rd in a wet-dry European Grand Prix which saw him, which saw him finish ahead of the BMW's, and only behind Massa and Alonso

2008-Webber finished 15/18 races, and scored 21 points to DC's 8, finished 11th, to DC's 16th, and was a regular contender for points. Finished a season best 4th at a wet Monaco GP

He has outqualified all his teammates consistently throughout his career, showing he has one-lap pace as well as consistent race pace that has seen him beat his teammates in all bar one season, and even then the tables where turned in the following season. Martin Brundle(165 race F1 veteran, has been the expert commentator for iTV and from 2009 onwards BBC) calls Mark Webber the unluckiest man in Formula 1. He was wanted in 2005 by Renault to parter Fernando Alonso, Renault won the championship, and Webber can possibly regard this as his biggest regret, as he showed at Monaco that season, in inferior machinery, and on a track where overtaking is regarded as impossible, that he could match it with Alonso. All Webber has lacked through his career is luck, and a reliable car(2008 the exception). IMO Webber has the ability to win championships, though this may never come to fruition as the teams capable of winning the championship in the remaining years of Webbers career (McLaren, Ferrari, Renault, BMW) generally have their drivers signed for long-term deals the ensure stability

 

[Bear]

Can you just give me a straight list of engines destroyed and races finished compared to his teammates?

 

[tuftman]

Can you just give me a straight list of engines destroyed and races finished compared to his teammates?

It took me waaay to long to do that last post......2006 it would be squillions from him and Rosberg, the Ford-Cosworth engine was a grenade, and Webbers issues have been replicated by his teammates..i.e the gearbox issues Reb Bull seem to have, have effected both him and DC. Races finished, hang on ill go through the seasons and add them up...Webber has finished 78/123 races, his teammates 60. That what you where after?

 

[Bear]

Not totally, but comparisons to his teammates, but thats sweet.

So, maybe he is not as bad as I thought. Still, everytime someone f**ks up in any sport, I still say that person has "done a mark webber" lol

 

[serious14]

Not totally, but comparisons to his teammates, but thats sweet.

So, maybe he is not as bad as I thought. Still, everytime someone f**ks up in any sport, I still say that person has "done a mark webber" lol

Could just say "he's Hutch".  Hutch = shit. 

 

[Redline]

He still blows cars up and it follows him from race to race. He may very well have the skill, and yeah, people see something in him to keep hiring him, but every team he's been in he's had engines go and DNFs.

And serious....lolz

 

[Ravana]

sigh,

F1 engines are very highly strung things, its all about speed and relibility.
Problem with the teams mark has been in, is that there isnt enough speed, and all it takes is one part of the engine to break, and it's all over.

Engine or compent failure says nothing at all about the driver! Everyone in F1 knows this.

Mark is a fantastic sportsman, in one race he was sick with food posioning, and threw up in his helmet during the race, but still he pushed on and finished it.

You really have to watch f1 to really understand why there is no chance he could win in the cars he has raced in. No one could have, not even Shumacher.

 

[Redline]

Oh I know those cards are under huge stress...don't they have to basically put in a new engine every Grand Prix or something?

 

[Bex]

He still blows cars up and it follows him from race to race. He may very well have the skill, and yeah, people see something in him to keep hiring him, but every team he's been in he's had engines go and DNFs.

And serious....lolz

Mate, its not the 50s any more; an F1 driver can't actually select the wrong gear or over-rev the engine. Its all done electronically and hydraulically. The driver CANNOT hurt the engine or gearbox. Virtually the only way the driver can stuff up these days is by damaging tyres, crashing the car or just driving badly.

 

[Redline]

I know this...it's the running joke...everywhere he goes, cars blow up underneath him.

 

[Bex]

Oh I know those cards are under huge stress...don't they have to basically put in a new engine every Grand Prix or something?

No, an engine has to last two grand prix and gearboxes 4 grand prix these days.

 

[tuftman]

Mark is a fantastic sportsman, in one race he was sick with food posioning, and threw up in his helmet during the race, but still he pushed on and finished it.

If memory serves me correctly, this was Fuji 2007, when Webber was in 2nd place and in position to challenge Hamilton for the win. Vettel hit him from behind under safety car robbing them both of at least 2nd and 3rd place respectively.
Just so everyone knows, before 2007 the engines weren't rev limited and the Ford-Cosworth engine Webber had in 2006 was pushed beyond 20,000rpm as per instructed by the engineering team at Cosworth, causing it to be stressed waaaaaaaaay to much. Nowadays the engines are limited to 'just' 19,000rpm hence Webber not having reliability issues last season, as engine and gearbox arent stressed as far

 

[Bex]

Mark is a fantastic sportsman, in one race he was sick with food posioning, and threw up in his helmet during the race, but still he pushed on and finished it.

If memory serves me correctly, this was Fuji 2007, when Webber was in 2nd place and in position to challenge Hamilton for the win. Vettel hit him from behind under safety car robbing them both of at least 2nd and 3rd place respectively.

That was absolutely gut wrenching watching that happen

 

[tuftman]

Mark is a fantastic sportsman, in one race he was sick with food posioning, and threw up in his helmet during the race, but still he pushed on and finished it.

If memory serves me correctly, this was Fuji 2007, when Webber was in 2nd place and in position to challenge Hamilton for the win. Vettel hit him from behind under safety car robbing them both of at least 2nd and 3rd place respectively.

That was absolutely gut wrenching watching that happen

You used gut wrenching as an adjective then, im sure it was a verb in Webbers case