The Stajcic Era, a Partnership of desperates or a Marriage Made in Heaven?

[midfielder]

Sometimes I wonder aloud if MC is waiting for a buyer and spending as little as possible in the meantime.

 

[Big Al]

Tell me which male players will he attract (even Okon and Mulvey was ahead of him on this) or how his reputation will drive down the overs we will need to pay because of our situation? The biggest liability concerning Stajic is that he doesn't have the player and contact network in the men's game needed to find players, attract players and knowing what to pay for these players.

It's a cheap signing and shows our ambition (or lack of) for the coming seasons.

A Kurz or Rudan would certainly achieve more in this area, as would a profile coach from overseas who would have a cache of contacts and relationships. Spend a little more in the coaching area and your options would open up immensely.

Can’t argue with either of your posts.

Realistically it’s probably true.

Our major weakness is our foreign players. Staj has no pull there.

MP should but if that was the case why did we end up with two 18yr olds from Sheffield?

Jem will I’m not sure who had him in there sights but it might be fair to say it was Mulvey.

Staj I think can be a good coach it’s just can he recruit and I agree with you he would be way behind the eight ball. Maybe a few SFC kids who would of known of his success with the woman at Sydney might be tempted but thats it i feel

 

[turbo]

A Kurz or Rudan would certainly achieve more in this area, as would a profile coach from overseas who would have a cache of contacts and relationships. Spend a little more in the coaching area and your options would open up immensely.

I was trying to understand what kind of coach you were after not have a go at you. So you'd be happy with a Kurz or a Rudan or are you looking for more profile abroad?

I can't imagine prior to their time here any number of the foreign coaches had the contacts within Australian football that you're expecting of Staj for whom you're also making assumptions about his contacts and relationships. Just because he hasn't coached senior men before doesn't mean he lives in a bubble. Do the agents that work within the league also represent women? Maybe some Matildas?

I can understand the ambitious acquisition you're after but I feel like it's a leap too far to expect in 1 season. If Staj can get us fighting to be in the six, restore some faith and away from the spoon and laughing stock status we have currently I think that's a win, then maybe we're in a position to attract more talent without paying overs.

 

[Wombat]

Rudan assembled a good squad in his first ever season. I dont think its a hard job. I think Shaun and Mulvey hid behind their incompetence claiming that had to pay overs.
There are 10 HAL teams and thousands of players both here and overseas looking for a start or a restart.
They were led on a merry dance by Rallis who also handled Mulvey.....which most likely explains some of our shit signings.
Staj appears to be a decent appointment but i'd like to spend a few hours at training to really see the cut of his gib.

 

[pjennings]

I think if can retain Tom and Jem and the young ones we want that will be a start. A couple of good keepers adds to that. Then as a leaving bonus to us Mike Phelan can identify a couple of attacking visa players. That is before we consider other Aussie players that may want overs.

If we do the first part right we shouldn't have to pay overs.

 

[Ads]

I have a feeling ‘the plan’ would be 1 more year of cheap 1 year signings as they won’t payroll the release of Mcglinchy & Simon, etc to do a decent clean slate starting 11 next year.
They will wait till 20/21 and hopefully under the advice of someone with sense have a good fresh start with a more expensive starting 11 like the structure of most other clubs.
As ofcourse they are unwilling to invest big dollars in currently fit & firing marquees so they need to squeeze the best into the cap.
And hopefully for 20/21 maybe a clean slate agreed upon with a new owner!
Can only dream.

 

[midfielder]

I think if can retain Tom and Jem and the young ones we want that will be a start. A couple of good keepers adds to that. Then as a leaving bonus to us Mike Phelan can identify a couple of attacking visa players. That is before we consider other Aussie players that may want overs.

If we do the first part right we shouldn't have to pay overs.

That makes sense, Tommy & Jem could be a defensive midfield pair who could control a game if the right players are chosen for other positions.\

I almost cry when I see the movement [I mean lack of] off the ball, both in showing for the ball i.e. the easy pass and the closing down of space and going with runners...

I recall reading in the 70's a detailed playing style by the then Liverpool coach Bill Shankly and it was latter followed by Bob Paisley again a Liverpool coach... Why do I know this so well is because in 1977 our team was approached by North Rocks and they offered us a coach and we were like most teams of the day, hoof & run .... the coach gave us copies to read and said this is how we would play. Bear in mind at this time Liverpool especially in the 80's were considered the worlds best team by many...

It went something like this, when we win the ball, every player is to push off their marker and show for the ball so the player with the ball has many options... when we loose the ball every player to get behind the ball and either close down space or mark a player...

Players need to be engaged and the old """ No dick head policy""" also helps a lot...

The key for me is Tom & Jem... Jem in particular as he is a leader and is constantly talking and moving players all over the park...

 

[marinermick]

I was trying to understand what kind of coach you were after not have a go at you. So you'd be happy with a Kurz or a Rudan or are you looking for more profile abroad?

I can't imagine prior to their time here any number of the foreign coaches had the contacts within Australian football that you're expecting of Staj for whom you're also making assumptions about his contacts and relationships. Just because he hasn't coached senior men before doesn't mean he lives in a bubble. Do the agents that work within the league also represent women? Maybe some Matildas?

I can understand the ambitious acquisition you're after but I feel like it's a leap too far to expect in 1 season. If Staj can get us fighting to be in the six, restore some faith and away from the spoon and laughing stock status we have currently I think that's a win, then maybe we're in a position to attract more talent without paying overs.

You are definitely not having a go but missing my point:

1) Hiring Stajcic shows a lack of ambition and shows we will continue to underinvest. Doing the same things over again and expecting different results is the proverbial.
2) Not recommending a coach. Investing more in this area will open up our options infinitely.

In relation to your replies:
1) You are the one to mention Kurtz and Rudan. I just said they would still be better options than Stanjic.
2) If our ambition is not to get the wooden spoon then we should pack up and go home now. An eighth or ninth next season would be a failure.

We have all been conditioned to failure that we think anything just short of this is deemed successful.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

It's not hard to see that our team is more organised in defence - but is that enough? I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to look critically at the Staj signing (though at this point, I can't get excited about a coach no matter who it is).

Defence has organised and some of the gaps are plugged (some....we're still making too many very basic errors) - but our attack has become nonexistent.

I've noticed that play under Staj seems to be a very low-energy form of playing. Defence is pressing as slowly as we can to put the pressure on, and that's fine, but we don't hit gear in attack. No more fast counters, no more running at the defence. It's why the team just looked so very, very, very lethargic in that game.

To be honest, I'd argue that we've had better attack under Mulvey. Sure, we've also had worse attack. But at least we've had games where we've been running at the defence from all angles, mixing it up and creating all sorts of problems. Outside of the Jets game, our attack has gone from bad to nonexistent, along with the new 'lethargy' style of play.

So, what's going on there? I think that's worth looking at before getting too excited over Staj.

I have a feeling ‘the plan’ would be 1 more year of cheap 1 year signings as they won’t payroll the release of Mcglinchy & Simon, etc to do a decent clean slate starting 11 next year.
They will wait till 20/21 and hopefully under the advice of someone with sense have a good fresh start with a more expensive starting 11 like the structure of most other clubs.
As ofcourse they are unwilling to invest big dollars in currently fit & firing marquees so they need to squeeze the best into the cap.
And hopefully for 20/21 maybe a clean slate agreed upon with a new owner!
Can only dream.

And where are you getting that idea from?
If that's 'the plan', then our club will never recover.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Owner, CEO are the same so under investment and chronic mismanagement will continue.
Phelan is a smokescreen, anyone with faith in what he has done for the club needs to be reminded of those 2 duds from Sheffield and the fact that it looks like another failed season for the academy (31 points off club championship already). The area he conducted an extensive review on and nothing changed.
To be a top 6 club we need to attract top 6 players (der). We simply won't pay the required wages. End of.
What scares me is Stajic won't play our youth kids either. He would have no idea if they can cut it because he won't play them.
For mine, I doubt he will do better than the others because he won't have the squad quality and he works for people who aren't good at what they do (Millar situation is the latest)

 

[FFC Mariner]

Owner, CEO are the same so under investment and chronic mismanagement will continue.
Phelan is a smokescreen, anyone with faith in what he has done for the club needs to be reminded of those 2 duds from Sheffield and the fact that it looks like another failed season for the academy (31 points off club championship already). The area he conducted an extensive review on and nothing changed.
To be a top 6 club we need to attract top 6 players (der). We simply won't pay the required wages. End of.
What scares me is Stajic won't play our youth kids either. He would have no idea if they can cut it because he won't play them.
For mine, I doubt he will do better than the others because he won't have the squad quality and he works for people who aren't good at what they do (Millar situation is the latest)

Edit: Regarding the 2 kids from Sheffield, would Glassock and Kekeris do worse? I doubt it. They just need to be fitter

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I have a feeling ‘the plan’ would be 1 more year of cheap 1 year signings as they won’t payroll the release of Mcglinchy & Simon, etc to do a decent clean slate starting 11 next year.
They will wait till 20/21 and hopefully under the advice of someone with sense have a good fresh start with a more expensive starting 11 like the structure of most other clubs.
As ofcourse they are unwilling to invest big dollars in currently fit & firing marquees so they need to squeeze the best into the cap.
And hopefully for 20/21 maybe a clean slate agreed upon with a new owner!
Can only dream.

If you’re right, then they’re crazy and have learnt nothing.

Only what unfolds over the next offseason will truly tell, but personally, despite this years abject failure, I think there were obvious signs that they’ve clearly learnt some things off the back of many of their other stupidly painful lessons over the past five years. And I draw my optimism from this.

We learnt what? f**k all maybe. I hear most people say. The signs I see we’re learning are:

A) From what I’ve been told, decent squad spends these past two seasons. But this was mitigated due to a mix of poor recruitment, previous poor recruitment, greedy agents/paying overs and poor coaching.

B) Mulvey and Phelan were not bad appointments upfront. They were the opposite. Given one was a HAL winning coach and the other was incredibly over qualified.

But Mulvey failed - in part stitched up by his agent but also shown up for not being the coach his title win running on Anges fumes suggested. And Phelan being over qualified meant we could not keep his eye on the ball that (for us) matters.

C) boardroom strengthening.

D) the lack of re-signings in our squad. Sure a couple would be real losses, but we need a clean out like we’ve never had before. And it looks like we’re shaping up for one. Which I’m wholeheartedly in favour of.

Retention, Recruitment quality, Pre season, Fitness, are going to be the big indicators I’ll go by.

If we retain Kennedy and Hoole... We’re still clueless.

If we fail to recruit well and in time... we’re still clueless.

If we fail to put together a very strong pre season... we’re still clueless.

If we fail to avail ourselves of high quality S&C... we’re still clueless.

As per the beginning of my post, Im willing to be optimistic, but those are the metrics that I’ll change my opinion by. Well that and the knowledge of the good folks on here.



But I won’t worry at a single bad signing, (unless it’s Kemnedy) or get excited by a couple of good ones, and I won’t be charmed by the speil of another coach no matter how good their rhetoric may be.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

You are definitely not having a go but missing my point:

1) Hiring Stajcic shows a lack of ambition and shows we will continue to underinvest. Doing the same things over again and expecting different results is the proverbial.
2) Not recommending a coach. Investing more in this area will open up our options infinitely.

In relation to your replies:
1) You are the one to mention Kurtz and Rudan. I just said they would still be better options than Stanjic.
2) If our ambition is not to get the wooden spoon then we should pack up and go home now. An eighth or ninth next season would be a failure.

We have all been conditioned to failure that we think anything just short of this is deemed successful.

Mick, I do not see the reported signing as a lack of ambition, I see it more as a safe signing rather than a gamble.

The only Australian coaches that would satisfy your requirements who are not already coaching A-League would be Ange and Arnie. Both are tied up and totally unrealistic.

If you look overseas you can be lucky or unlucky as has been shown in the past by other A-League clubs' experiences. But even then they do not necessarily have Australian players as followers.

I also suspect that Stajcic is not necessarily the cheap option and I suspect we may have been lucky to get him. I really doubt that without a hell of a lot more skill or luck than we have shown in the past we would be lucky to do better but we could definitely quite easily do a lot worse.

As FP said above we need to do recruitment and retention exceptionally well. To do that we need some wise heads to make up a football management committee, not just the coach, his assistant and a loud agent, with an absent pom thrown in.

I think FP's point D will be the determining factor for next season rather than Stajcic.

When it comes to coach signings I was more concerned when I heard we were getting Arnie all those years ago than I am now.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I think Mick is likely right about Staj having limited ability to impact on our player signing and scouting capabilities.

But I think he will have us well organised and if he can add very fit to the equation, we’d be a big step up on the past 2 years even if he struggles to recruit.

The power of someone like Phelan is not so much what players he personally knows and will call, but that he can probably get on the phone and be taken seriously by almost anyone. From scouts to agents and directors of other football clubs... who can help point us toward quality players. My concern is does he have the time and thereby full inclination to do it.

3 more foreign players of Jem and Tom’s quality, one CB, one 10, One Striker, with a proper Australian keeper would go a long way to making us a good competitive side again.

 

[true believer]

Sometimes I wonder aloud if MC is waiting for a buyer and spending as little as possible in the meantime.

Lucky you weren't there last week.
What a truely miserable night . The punters started leaving at about the sixith minute . Its just a hopeless feeling .
And with the pikey next year it will be the same ..
I've said it before but i won't resign while the pikey owns the team .
Cry the beloved country

 

[Wombat]

Edit: Regarding the 2 kids from Sheffield, would Glassock and Kekeris do worse? I doubt it. They just need to be fitter

Dont Mallon and Kekeris play on different flanks? Any way......the reason we got the Sheffield kids was because they were FREE.

 

[Big Al]

Dont Mallon and Kekeris play on different flanks? Any way......the reason we got the Sheffield kids was because they were FREE.

Kekeris is a left winger as well but Mulvey was trying to convert him to the right

 

[midfielder]

Stay with me on this post.

These are the official numbers and positions.
1 Keeper
2 Right side centre back
3 Left side centre back
4 Right back
5 Left back
6 Defensive mid... ball player
7 Right Mid / Wing
8 Defensive mid ... box to box
9 Striker
10 Attacking Mid
11 Left mid / wing..

Key formations

5 - 3 - 2
5 - 4 - 1
4- 4 - 2
4 - 2 - 3 - 1
4 - 3 - 2 - 1
4 - 5 - 1
4- 3 - 3
3 - 4 - 3

Staj has played a formation I have not seen much an its an interesting formation.

He has played a 4 - 1 - 4 - 1, with Gem being the link player between the backs and mids its similar to the 70's & 80's "'stopper position" ... clever if you are new and unsure of the skills you to work with.

I have also seen a lot of midfield switching, between Gem, Tommy & O'Neil .

Arnold played a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 ... with LM playing more a 4 - 4 - 2 formation as did Arnold when he first came.

I have also seen Staj react earlier than both Oken & Mulvey, things have not always worked but he has reacted in an attempt to change the game.

LM IMO is in a class of his own in Hal history in his ability to spot young talent, as a club we have never had since LM left a great talent spotter.

Arnold signed some decent marquees and our reputation brought players like Rogic ... but he signed few youth players who excelled.

Essentially we need in a new coach three key things, a good technical analysis ability with the courage to react to game positions and have various formations being played by his squad. Staj for me has a pass mark at this stage edging towards a credit pass, but not a distinction grade as yet.

Second the ability to identify talent especially youth talent into the team he has and the players he has to work with... his background as a national coach and a successful one who picked many youth players to replace senior players suggest he has this talent.

Finally a good manager of players... tis to soon to judge this.

But we have way to many Defensive mids, a poor keeper, average at best centre backs, and no forwards, ... the squad he has is poorly balanced and that's Mulvey's fault . Attacking players again poor...

When I look at the player numbers above we only have quality players in positions 6 & 8. None of this is Staj's fault.

The most important appointment to the club will be our talent spotter... LM had connections to Blacktown & Sydney United and thu them to most other Western Sydney clubs.

The model Gorman set up and we all loved needs as a club the ability to identify talent and to some extent that means having reliable connections into western Sydney rep sides and NPL clubs.

I have no idea if Staj is the right person, simply because his time has been to short and we have not seen any signings.

What I do know is we need someone who can build a squad and spot talent....

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Stay with me on this post.

These are the official numbers and positions.
1 Keeper
2 Right side centre back
3 Left side centre back
4 Right back
5 Left back
6 Defensive mid... ball player
7 Right Mid / Wing
8 Defensive mid ... box to box
9 Striker
10 Attacking Mid
11 Left mid / wing..

Key formations

5 - 3 - 2
5 - 4 - 1
4- 4 - 2
4 - 2 - 3 - 1
4 - 3 - 2 - 1
4 - 5 - 1
4- 3 - 3
3 - 4 - 3

Staj has played a formation I have not seen much an its an interesting formation.

He has played a 4 - 1 - 4 - 1, with Gem being the link player between the backs and mids its similar to the 70's & 80's "'stopper position" ... clever if you are new and unsure of the skills you to work with.

I have also seen a lot of midfield switching, between Gem, Tommy & O'Neil .

Arnold played a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 ... with LM playing more a 4 - 4 - 2 formation as did Arnold when he first came.

I have also seen Staj react earlier than both Oken & Mulvey, things have not always worked but he has reacted in an attempt to change the game.

LM IMO is in a class of his own in Hal history in his ability to spot young talent, as a club we have never had since LM left a great talent spotter.

Arnold signed some decent marquees and our reputation brought players like Rogic ... but he signed few youth players who excelled.

Essentially we need in a new coach three key things, a good technical analysis ability with the courage to react to game positions and have various formations being played by his squad. Staj for me has a pass mark at this stage edging towards a credit pass, but not a distinction grade as yet.

Second the ability to identify talent especially youth talent into the team he has and the players he has to work with... his background as a national coach and a successful one who picked many youth players to replace senior players suggest he has this talent.

Finally a good manager of player... tis to soon to judge this.

But we have way to many Defensive mids, a poor keeper, average at best centre backs, and no forwards, ... the squad he has is poorly balanced and that's Mulvey's fault . Attacking player again poor...

When I look at the player numbers above we only have quality players in positions 6 & 8. None of this is Staj's fault.

The most important appointment to the club will be our talent spotter... LM had connections to Blacktown & Sydney United and thu them to most other Western Sydney clubs.

The model Gorman set up and we all loved needs as a club the ability to identify talent and to some extent that means having reliable connections into western Sydney rep sides and NPL clubs.

I have no idea if Staj is the right person, simply because his time has been to short and we have not seen any signings.

What I do know is we need someone who can build a squad and spot talent....

Thoroughly agree. Great post Middy.

 

[turbo]

https://www.ccmariners.com.au/news/pain-aspropotamitis-set-depart-western-united

The worst kept secret in the league is now official.