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The end is nigh - impending doom - Moss out etc thread
- Thread starter tsd
- Start date
VicMariner
Well-Known Member
We quite often start the season slow, if we ditch the manager now we may as well get our name engraved on the wooden spoon.
If Moss is kicked do any of us think MC will shell out for a top drawer coach?
If Moss is kicked do any of us think MC will shell out for a top drawer coach?
Blackadder
Well-Known Member
Can't see MC shelling out for a quality coach unfortunately.
Dare I mention the name Farina as a alternative.
Dare I mention the name Farina as a alternative.
scoober
Well-Known Member
I'll post a few points that I know of which you can choose to ignore, throw stone at me or pretend its not happening.
1) Moss has lost the dressing room
2) Anderson was dropped because Bosnar wanted him dropped
3) None of the senior players like Bosnar
4) Anderson wants a release
5) Players aren't showing up to training due to morale
6) The team culture much adorned by every other team is gone
Like I mentioned, believe, choose not to I don't mind. Not in a hate campaign against anyone but we need to make changes asap otherwise there will be more to worry about then 1 bad season.
1) Moss has lost the dressing room
2) Anderson was dropped because Bosnar wanted him dropped
3) None of the senior players like Bosnar
4) Anderson wants a release
5) Players aren't showing up to training due to morale
6) The team culture much adorned by every other team is gone
Like I mentioned, believe, choose not to I don't mind. Not in a hate campaign against anyone but we need to make changes asap otherwise there will be more to worry about then 1 bad season.
yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
The Bosnar issue could ring true, after all, he never stays anywhere long and there must be reasons for that. If there is evidence that players aren't turning up for training, then MC needs to hold discussions to sort out where any issues lie.
Gratis
Well-Known Member
I keep hearing talk of unrest in the dressing room and dissatisfied players - is anyone genuinely in the know about this or is it all just rumour?
If it is rumour I don't see a problem other than it's taking a little while to get into sync. It appears Mossy has a plan in mind and it's taking a little while for the team to nail it and get to know each other and each other's roles - but it appears to me to be on track to getting there. I think it has all been compounded by the amount of rotation in pre-season, almost every player got a share of game time meaning no 'starting' 11 really got into sync. The upside is 23 players fit enough to deal with FFA cup, rescheduled games and possible ACL.
Traditionally we start a season slow but manage some points from early games giving us foundation for when we do start to take off. This season looks no different 3 games in. My only concern was a certain lack of fire in the belly against SFC but then we don't concede the fouls we once did either and it appears to be a change in methodology (I hope).
On the other hand if there is genuinely unrest in the squad then we have real troubles. I'm hoping it really is just rumour. If not, well Ange didn't have the backing of or the confidence in his players when he took over Roar and a coaches rejig managed to fix that. My only fear would be a loss of our greatest asset - the Mariners spirit/culture.
If anyone can confirm with knowledge that the unrest is not heresay, i.e. you have first hand knowledge, then please confirm. If you've only heard it from someone please also say. This is the critical point.
Ultimately I think Mossy is working on a playing philosophy that will work when it gets there and just needs time and our patience. I'm a way off calling for anyone's head yet.
If it is rumour I don't see a problem other than it's taking a little while to get into sync. It appears Mossy has a plan in mind and it's taking a little while for the team to nail it and get to know each other and each other's roles - but it appears to me to be on track to getting there. I think it has all been compounded by the amount of rotation in pre-season, almost every player got a share of game time meaning no 'starting' 11 really got into sync. The upside is 23 players fit enough to deal with FFA cup, rescheduled games and possible ACL.
Traditionally we start a season slow but manage some points from early games giving us foundation for when we do start to take off. This season looks no different 3 games in. My only concern was a certain lack of fire in the belly against SFC but then we don't concede the fouls we once did either and it appears to be a change in methodology (I hope).
On the other hand if there is genuinely unrest in the squad then we have real troubles. I'm hoping it really is just rumour. If not, well Ange didn't have the backing of or the confidence in his players when he took over Roar and a coaches rejig managed to fix that. My only fear would be a loss of our greatest asset - the Mariners spirit/culture.
If anyone can confirm with knowledge that the unrest is not heresay, i.e. you have first hand knowledge, then please confirm. If you've only heard it from someone please also say. This is the critical point.
Ultimately I think Mossy is working on a playing philosophy that will work when it gets there and just needs time and our patience. I'm a way off calling for anyone's head yet.
dibo
Well-Known Member
We know that *you* say it's true already. That doesn't add anything to the conversation.
We need a confident win this weekend. They are all professional players and i'd be surprised if they are sulking, the players that are on the outer need to roll their sleeves up and prove themselves. I can understand some concerns as there has been some baffling team selections but i'm sure it will all pan out ok.
dibo
Well-Known Member
So the great thing is that this post:
...is now being treated on twitter as a source rather than rumour itself. Rumour becomes the source of rumour. Rinse and repeat.
Some people seem to take great delight in kicking rumours along without confirmation/denial etc. It doesn't mean they're true or that people spreading them don't have their own reasons. Rumours aren't always true, almost never tell the full story, people spreading them aren't doing it as a public service. What do *they* want from it?
Someone gets impatient with coach/style/results, gets half a whiff of something half true... Spreading them creates other problems though. *Perception* of crisis can be self-fulfilling, and people who are pissed off for their own reasons will be perfectly willing to believe it's true (*waves to Wombat*).
It was put to me that "people can think it's rainbows and lollipops or there is a problem", which I take to mean that unless you're credulous enough to believe any rumour going, you're in the rainbows and lollipops.
*Quick - believe this rumour or you're just a fool!*
f**k that.
I don't see a team or club in disharmony. Without seeing rumours posted on the net I'd have no reason whatsoever to think that's an issue. But there's always someone with a rumour 'for our information', bless their socks.
I don't know whether it's a desire to break news, to be the big man with the big tip, a feeling of being on the inside track for information or whatever, but f**k it makes it tiresome to be a fan sometimes.
...is now being treated on twitter as a source rather than rumour itself. Rumour becomes the source of rumour. Rinse and repeat.
Some people seem to take great delight in kicking rumours along without confirmation/denial etc. It doesn't mean they're true or that people spreading them don't have their own reasons. Rumours aren't always true, almost never tell the full story, people spreading them aren't doing it as a public service. What do *they* want from it?
Someone gets impatient with coach/style/results, gets half a whiff of something half true... Spreading them creates other problems though. *Perception* of crisis can be self-fulfilling, and people who are pissed off for their own reasons will be perfectly willing to believe it's true (*waves to Wombat*).
It was put to me that "people can think it's rainbows and lollipops or there is a problem", which I take to mean that unless you're credulous enough to believe any rumour going, you're in the rainbows and lollipops.
*Quick - believe this rumour or you're just a fool!*
f**k that.
I don't see a team or club in disharmony. Without seeing rumours posted on the net I'd have no reason whatsoever to think that's an issue. But there's always someone with a rumour 'for our information', bless their socks.
I don't know whether it's a desire to break news, to be the big man with the big tip, a feeling of being on the inside track for information or whatever, but f**k it makes it tiresome to be a fan sometimes.
neverwozza
Well-Known Member
Nicked this from 442 forum - seems kind of relevant here at the moment.
"For all the books written about football, for all the information available online, and for the closeness that it is still possible to feel to the players in some areas of the country, the fans will never really know how a player feels when he steps on and off the pitch, what it’s like to score, what it’s like to win a football match, and how it feels to have 80,000 people watching what you’re about to do with the ball.
The fans work all the hours that God sends so that they can spend part of their income on an expensive ticket to watch us play for the sum total of 90 minutes, and most of them aren’t overly bothered about any problems that a player may have outside of those 90 minutes. In fact, most of the fans I talk to, including many of my friends, believe that the right amount of money will remove any problem a footballer may have. While it is true that monetary problems are generally squashed in the womb, many of the other problems everybody has to deal with in everyday life persist. We’re not all that different.
And it isn’t really a surprise that some fans can’t get on board with that. The level of passion they feel for their local club will always evoke a sense of belonging that foreign players, in particular, should never be able to feel – unless a foreign player comes to the club and plays well, of course, then he becomes an adopted son. Football provides fans with a sense of passion like no other pastime I know of, and every now and again it blows up on all sides.
When Mark Viduka played for Middlesbrough he found himself – where the fans were concerned – in a tight spot. When things were going well he was their best hope for another season in the Premier League, but when things were going badly he was the unacceptable face of inflated footballers’ wages, paid with fans’ hard-earned money by a chairman in pursuit of exactly the same goal.
In one particular game, things – as you might expect with a club like Middlesbrough – were not going according to plan. The team were losing 0–2 to Aston Villa when Viduka was taken off at half-time. The announcement led to frustrated jeers by the home fans. I’ve seen it a million times before – it is the insatiable and totally irrational need for people who know next to nothing about football to reduce the game to a primeval and nonsensical rationale so as to have some flimsy foundation upon which to demonise their own come Monday morning. In short, the need for a scapegoat is as pressing as the need of an ex-teammate of mine to have sex with as many different women as possible.
As the tall Australian walked toward the side of the pitch the boos grew louder, until Viduka had taken his seat on the bench, where he was then faced with the fans abusing him from all sides. As the stadium erupted with all eyes on the centre-forward, Viduka, looking dead ahead as he sat on the bench, began to sing the Monty Python classic ‘Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life’, complete with the whistling. Needless to say, it didn’t go down well with the Riverside faithful.
When the game had finished and Middlesbrough had duly lost, the players made their way out to the car park. The players’ cars at Middlesbrough, for some inexplicable reason, are parked right opposite the main stand and protected by a waist-high, makeshift, metal fence, patrolled by two security guards. It isn’t that anybody is daft enough to try to steal the cars, it’s the fact that in Middlesbrough there isn’t a lot of money about and when the team loses a football match, the people don’t really want to be confronted with £100,000 sports cars 10 minutes after the final whistle of a game in which they have been played off the pitch.
At £60,000 a week, Mark Viduka was the highest earner at Boro at that time and, as he left the ground, he walked into a barrage of abuse from fans who had congregated around the metal barriers protecting the gleaming cars within.
As he walked into the enclosure, a group of fellas began to get very vocal and aggressive, before one rather portly gentleman did his best to bring about early onset cardiovascular disease by abusing Viduka and all he stood for at the top of his voice: “I pay your f**king wages, Viduka.” As he got to the car, Viduka put his bags down and started walking towards the four-foot-high metal fence a group of 30 or 40 fellas were pretending to have a great amount of difficulty in scaling.
“You pay my wages?” said Viduka, looking the biggest fella dead in the eye.
“That’s f**king right,” said the ringleader.
And with that Viduka extended his hand and said, “Fair play to you, mate. You must be one rich f**ker.”
And that’s when you know it’s time for everybody to go home without saying another word. Apparently, they still talk about it up at Boro.
The problem with a lot of fans is that they want to let off steam; they want to vent frustration. It’s in their blood, they can’t help themselves – they seem to get a serotonin rush from deriding others at football matches. In one of the best scenes from the film Fever Pitch, an Arsenal fan, an old boy, sat in a café and said, “They were f**king rubbish last year and they were f**king rubbish the year before. I don’t care if they’re top – they’ll be f**king rubbish this year too, and the year after that.”
That scene was shot to reflect the 1971 season, a year in which Arsenal won the double for the first time. At the end of his rant, the old boy turns to a kid enjoying his first-ever football match and says, “Here, have a look at the No8 this afternoon, John Samuels his name is. Remember his face, then, if you should happen to bump into him, tell him to sod off to Spurs.” And that, in a gloriously perfect scene, is how footballers understand football fans. As far as they’re concerned, we’re damned if we do and we’re damned if we don’t.
Some people are so stupid that they have no idea how stupid they are. Professor of psychology at Cornell University, David Dunning, argues that in order to know how good you are at something, it requires exactly the same skills as it does to be good at that thing in the first place – which means if you’re absolutely no good at something at all then you lack exactly the skills you need to know that you’re absolutely no good at it. Understand?
But don’t take my word for it. Dunning, and his accomplice at Cornell, Justin Kruger, were awarded the 2000 Nobel Prize in Psychology for their efforts and that carried a £1m reward. I could have proved their theory after just one trip to Middlesbrough, where expectation and reality are at least 10,000 light years apart. It’s difficult to tell exactly who is stupid. It’s at times like this that I feel extremely religious."
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/06/the-secret-footballer-book-extract-fans-supporters/print
"For all the books written about football, for all the information available online, and for the closeness that it is still possible to feel to the players in some areas of the country, the fans will never really know how a player feels when he steps on and off the pitch, what it’s like to score, what it’s like to win a football match, and how it feels to have 80,000 people watching what you’re about to do with the ball.
The fans work all the hours that God sends so that they can spend part of their income on an expensive ticket to watch us play for the sum total of 90 minutes, and most of them aren’t overly bothered about any problems that a player may have outside of those 90 minutes. In fact, most of the fans I talk to, including many of my friends, believe that the right amount of money will remove any problem a footballer may have. While it is true that monetary problems are generally squashed in the womb, many of the other problems everybody has to deal with in everyday life persist. We’re not all that different.
And it isn’t really a surprise that some fans can’t get on board with that. The level of passion they feel for their local club will always evoke a sense of belonging that foreign players, in particular, should never be able to feel – unless a foreign player comes to the club and plays well, of course, then he becomes an adopted son. Football provides fans with a sense of passion like no other pastime I know of, and every now and again it blows up on all sides.
When Mark Viduka played for Middlesbrough he found himself – where the fans were concerned – in a tight spot. When things were going well he was their best hope for another season in the Premier League, but when things were going badly he was the unacceptable face of inflated footballers’ wages, paid with fans’ hard-earned money by a chairman in pursuit of exactly the same goal.
In one particular game, things – as you might expect with a club like Middlesbrough – were not going according to plan. The team were losing 0–2 to Aston Villa when Viduka was taken off at half-time. The announcement led to frustrated jeers by the home fans. I’ve seen it a million times before – it is the insatiable and totally irrational need for people who know next to nothing about football to reduce the game to a primeval and nonsensical rationale so as to have some flimsy foundation upon which to demonise their own come Monday morning. In short, the need for a scapegoat is as pressing as the need of an ex-teammate of mine to have sex with as many different women as possible.
As the tall Australian walked toward the side of the pitch the boos grew louder, until Viduka had taken his seat on the bench, where he was then faced with the fans abusing him from all sides. As the stadium erupted with all eyes on the centre-forward, Viduka, looking dead ahead as he sat on the bench, began to sing the Monty Python classic ‘Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life’, complete with the whistling. Needless to say, it didn’t go down well with the Riverside faithful.
When the game had finished and Middlesbrough had duly lost, the players made their way out to the car park. The players’ cars at Middlesbrough, for some inexplicable reason, are parked right opposite the main stand and protected by a waist-high, makeshift, metal fence, patrolled by two security guards. It isn’t that anybody is daft enough to try to steal the cars, it’s the fact that in Middlesbrough there isn’t a lot of money about and when the team loses a football match, the people don’t really want to be confronted with £100,000 sports cars 10 minutes after the final whistle of a game in which they have been played off the pitch.
At £60,000 a week, Mark Viduka was the highest earner at Boro at that time and, as he left the ground, he walked into a barrage of abuse from fans who had congregated around the metal barriers protecting the gleaming cars within.
As he walked into the enclosure, a group of fellas began to get very vocal and aggressive, before one rather portly gentleman did his best to bring about early onset cardiovascular disease by abusing Viduka and all he stood for at the top of his voice: “I pay your f**king wages, Viduka.” As he got to the car, Viduka put his bags down and started walking towards the four-foot-high metal fence a group of 30 or 40 fellas were pretending to have a great amount of difficulty in scaling.
“You pay my wages?” said Viduka, looking the biggest fella dead in the eye.
“That’s f**king right,” said the ringleader.
And with that Viduka extended his hand and said, “Fair play to you, mate. You must be one rich f**ker.”
And that’s when you know it’s time for everybody to go home without saying another word. Apparently, they still talk about it up at Boro.
The problem with a lot of fans is that they want to let off steam; they want to vent frustration. It’s in their blood, they can’t help themselves – they seem to get a serotonin rush from deriding others at football matches. In one of the best scenes from the film Fever Pitch, an Arsenal fan, an old boy, sat in a café and said, “They were f**king rubbish last year and they were f**king rubbish the year before. I don’t care if they’re top – they’ll be f**king rubbish this year too, and the year after that.”
That scene was shot to reflect the 1971 season, a year in which Arsenal won the double for the first time. At the end of his rant, the old boy turns to a kid enjoying his first-ever football match and says, “Here, have a look at the No8 this afternoon, John Samuels his name is. Remember his face, then, if you should happen to bump into him, tell him to sod off to Spurs.” And that, in a gloriously perfect scene, is how footballers understand football fans. As far as they’re concerned, we’re damned if we do and we’re damned if we don’t.
Some people are so stupid that they have no idea how stupid they are. Professor of psychology at Cornell University, David Dunning, argues that in order to know how good you are at something, it requires exactly the same skills as it does to be good at that thing in the first place – which means if you’re absolutely no good at something at all then you lack exactly the skills you need to know that you’re absolutely no good at it. Understand?
But don’t take my word for it. Dunning, and his accomplice at Cornell, Justin Kruger, were awarded the 2000 Nobel Prize in Psychology for their efforts and that carried a £1m reward. I could have proved their theory after just one trip to Middlesbrough, where expectation and reality are at least 10,000 light years apart. It’s difficult to tell exactly who is stupid. It’s at times like this that I feel extremely religious."
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/06/the-secret-footballer-book-extract-fans-supporters/print
tsd
Well-Known Member
may i ask you for the source of this information?
style_cafe
Well-Known Member
Can't see MC shelling out for a quality coach unfortunately.
Dare I mention the name Farina as a alternative.
Please don`t...
x 2Please don`t...
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