The COVID Chat

[FFC Mariner]

Road map to be released tomorrow according to Ch9 and News - Vaxxed get to do stuff, unvaxxed dont. Will be interesting to see how they plan to enforce it.

Services NSW app to link with your vax passport by all accounts

 

[pjennings]

Road map to be released tomorrow according to Ch9 and News - Vaxxed get to do stuff, unvaxxed dont. Will be interesting to see how they plan to enforce it.

Services NSW app to link with your vax passport by all accounts

So basically older people that are used to landlines have to stay at home even though they are double-jabbed?

 

[turbo]

So basically older people that are used to landlines have to stay at home even though they are double-jabbed?

They'll probably be able to get some sort of card the establishment can scan, kind of like a reverse check in that links to them and looks up their status. I believe something like that is available for the check in system at the moment.

Will be interesting to see how they plan to enforce it.

By pushing it back on workplaces who will in turn put that burden on their staff. I feel sorry for all the retail and hospitality staff in particular who are going to be on the front line of copping shit from the portion of the public who opposes it.

 

[Coastalraider]

Yep. Or understand that 80+ of the total population of australia has a smart phone and that is the simplest mainstream way to convey this passport en masse, therefore the one they are currently focusing on.

 

[pjennings]

Yep. Or understand that 80+ of the total population of australia has a smart phone and that is the simplest mainstream way to convey this passport en masse, therefore the one they are currently focusing on.

But therein lies the problem. Everything has been done the simplest way for the government - not the best way for the people. I still know of many older people in the lockdown LGAs that can't get to the vaccination areas. There really needs to be an effort to meet these people in there communities, church halls, RSL auditoriums - places close to them that are easily accessible. Many of these people are reliant on families from outside the LGAs for transport and public transport in the area is not as good as other areas of Sydney.

As for 80% of the Australian pop have smart phones - there may well be over 20 million smart phones in Australia - but our family of 5 use 9 of them (work and personal) - so is it really 80% or do many people like me have access to multiple smart phones and others have no access.

 

[turbo]

Everything has been done the simplest way for the government - not the best way for the people

I’m happy to lay the boot into the government but I think working at this scale it needs to be simple for the gov - mass vax hubs, roll out via chemists is good, GPs not so much IMO.

As they hit the 80+ percent rate they’ll be in a better position to help those feeling left behind and I hope we will see pop up hubs at the likes of RSLs, churches etc.

The same with smart phones vs sign in cards. The rest of the city or state isn’t going to cop waiting weeks more for postal roll outs when there’s a better, instant system right there.

 

[marinermick]

They'll probably be able to get some sort of card the establishment can scan, kind of like a reverse check in that links to them and looks up their status. I believe something like that is available for the check in system at the moment.


By pushing it back on workplaces who will in turn put that burden on their staff. I feel sorry for all the retail and hospitality staff in particular who are going to be on the front line of copping shit from the portion of the public who opposes it.

My wife owns the cafe at Tascott. They are already stressing about it. They are in a good spot just now doing takeaways, have strict distancing in place. It is a close community so they know everyone. They don’t want the extra time and social burden of checking passports and especially don’t want to exclude any regulars from their shop.

 

[Coastalraider]

Spot on turbo. They are picking the low hanging fruit first, getting the bulk sorted before working on the details.

 

[Coastalraider]

My wife owns the cafe at Tascott. They are already stressing about it. They are in a good spot just now doing takeaways, have strict distancing in place. It is a close community so they know everyone. They don’t want the extra time and social burden of checking passports and especially don’t want to exclude any regulars from their shop.

The way I have heard the proposal is that it will be linked to your check in app, meaning that it ‘shouldn’t’ be any harder than the system currently in place. If you want take away and aren’t double vaccinated, you still have to check in with the app so no change in behaviour there, but if you want to go inside to sit and eat, you check in on a different QR code that only approves you if your profile is linked to a valid passport.

 

[marinermick]

The way I have heard the proposal is that it will be linked to your check in app, meaning that it ‘shouldn’t’ be any harder than the system currently in place. If you want take away and aren’t double vaccinated, you still have to check in with the app so no change in behaviour there, but if you want to go inside to sit and eat, you check in on a different QR code that only approves you if your profile is linked to a valid passport.

That should make things easy to manage

 

[pjennings]

I’m happy to lay the boot into the government but I think working at this scale it needs to be simple for the gov - mass vax hubs, roll out via chemists is good, GPs not so much IMO.

As they hit the 80+ percent rate they’ll be in a better position to help those feeling left behind and I hope we will see pop up hubs at the likes of RSLs, churches etc.

The same with smart phones vs sign in cards. The rest of the city or state isn’t going to cop waiting weeks more for postal roll outs when there’s a better, instant system right there.

The problem with that - the people I was talking about are some of the most vulnerable people in the most affected LGAs that should not be being left behind now. Surely we can go for the quick wins while also tacking the more difficult.

 

[turbo]

The problem with that - the people I was talking about are some of the most vulnerable people in the most affected LGAs that shopuld not be being left behind nowand

How would you do it differently though? It has to be practical and if those people are so cut off they haven't been able to get a jab at a GP or pharmacy in all this time (remembering most oldies have been eligible for a while now) they are going to be very hard to reach and the resources needed to get them covered are better utilised to get 5-10 other people vaccinated in the same time frame. Noting that better coverage for the whole population helps everyone.

Maybe we'll be able to move towards home visits when resources are available or once vax rates are high enough their relatives will be able to help them get to an appointment with less risk of infecting them. Pop up hubs is another option but again if you cant get to the pharmacy can you get to the RSL anyway?

I'm not suggesting any of this is particularly fair but we arent in a position to be fair right away when working at this scale.

 

[bikinigirl]

I still know of many older people in the lockdown LGAs that can't get to the vaccination areas. There really needs to be an effort to meet these people in there communities, church halls, RSL auditoriums - places close to them that are easily accessible. Many of these people are reliant on families from outside the LGAs for transport and public transport in the area is not as good as other areas of Sydney.

. not sure i can really support this view but i accept that everybody's circumstances are different. Dad and the Outlaws live in the dodgey LGAs and have had no problems getting the vaccine from the local chemist or medical centre ... easily accessible (and appropriate for medical care)

. this is after initial AZ hesitancy because of blood conditions. other than age, they had no priority

As for 80% of the Australian pop have smart phones - there may well be over 20 million smart phones in Australia - but our family of 5 use 9 of them (work and personal) - so is it really 80% or do many people like me have access to multiple smart phones and others have no access.

. this i can see as a problem

. the old man had a rotary dial phone until the NBN made it redundant. he diligently 'signs in' now (you know, with paper and a pen) and has a hard copy of his vaccine certificate to carry with him. i can see him being denied entry shortly

. previously it was easy enough to sign him in under my QR code (when we could actually see one another) ... but these systems are designed to prohibit mutiple IDs on the one device

 

[true believer]

So basically older people that are used to landlines have to stay at home even though they are double-jabbed?

print out your vaccination letter and stick it in your wallet .it ain't gunna be that hard and
slowmo won't be involved as it'll be state based .

 

[Wombat]

Yep. Or understand that 80+ of the total population of australia has a smart phone and that is the simplest mainstream way to convey this passport en masse, therefore the one they are currently focusing on.

Oldies don't want smartphones because they are scared of the Technology or think they will get hacked.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I thought I got a 5g chip inserted with my vaccination and did not need a phone.

 

[pjennings]

This is a letter to the editor in Tasmania from 1919. The more things change - the more ...

 

[Allreet?]

My wife owns the cafe at Tascott. They are already stressing about it. They are in a good spot just now doing takeaways, have strict distancing in place. It is a close community so they know everyone. They don’t want the extra time and social burden of checking passports and especially don’t want to exclude any regulars from their shop.

Feel sorry for her.

Mrs Allreet is a doctor and totally fed up with having to have constant ideological/political debates with whingers (who aren't even patients of the practice as often as not).

Tell them to write a letter to the council is my advice, but she never says that...

 

[Omni]

Here in the US it’s a mixture of an app (NYC, California) and just using the vaccine card (default basically everywhere else) and my idiot Governor making asking for proof illegal.

 

[pjennings]

First of all sorry for the rant and while this may be about Covid the point is probably more about the media's role.

John Barilaro has this weekend said he is the architect of the of the planned way out of NSW lockdown and that the 70% target is a government target. The NSW Health target is/was a 85% vaccination rate.

People will argue that the government needs to take into account the economic side as well - and that is correct. They need to consider all aspects before making a decision But what is really being done here? Are they properly considering it or just scratching the surfaces?

To put this in context with double vaccination rates we are currently at 46.2%. NSW is on target for

70% - 14 Oct
80% - 27 Oct
90% - 9 Nov

So given the health argument is for 85% the question becomes what is the economic argument for opening up from 14th Oct as opposed to say 3rd Nov.

What is the short term economic impact of the increased deaths and serious cases between 14th October and 3rd Nov

More importantly what are the long term economic impacts as apart from the deaths we are 'choosing' to infect a great many people that otherwise wouldn't have been infected that may suffer 'long term Covid'. i.e. Those that suffer long term Covid will be less productive for the rest of their life, will use scarce health resources for the rest of their life and will likely die prematurely to what they would have otherwise. No one is asking these questions.

The point is that the govt's (both State and Federal) seem to be focusing on a very narrow view when considering the economic impact of Covid whilst being protected by a media that doesn't scrutinise them properly. Just today Waleed Aly suggested that the govt could be excused for not buying sufficient Pfizer because they have limited resources. Totally missing the point that the weekly health response cost dwarfs what would have been a one-off cost for the extra doses.

Governments need to act and think at a macro level - not be looking at the next news cycle, opinion poll or election. When the media only thinks that way they give a free pass to the incumbents. The job of the media is to hold the government to account, not to help them by confirming the spin of the day.

None of this is saying that the ultimate government decision will be right or wrong - just that the scrutiny needs to be more robust. The NSW government course may be correct with their roadmap - but what advice are they being given and is it wide ranging enough? I suspect it is narrow because I have not heard anyone ask anything that is either self-serving to the government or trying to get a 'gotcha' moment on the government. Neither of these extremes is holding the government up to proper scrutiny of what they are doing. We need to forget the politics and worry about the governing.

End of rant!!