That's a bit racialist?

[pjennings]

Read Windschuttle's "The Fabrication of Aboriginal History Vol.1" Very well written researched and supported by references.

You lost all credibility there. Windshuttle is right up there with one of the most biased historians in Australia's history.

@adz - this really should be moved to a different thread - it really has nothing to do with the Matildas.

 

[Hello Sailor]

You lost all credibility there. Windshuttle is right up there with one of the most biased historians in Australia's history.

@adz - this really should be moved to a different thread - it really has nothing to do with the Matildas.

I suggest that you READ the book and check out the supporting references before handing out judgement.
He was certainly on one side of the 'History wars" and his critique of his adversaries is well reasoned and supported. Iron Bark claims that Genocide is 'not contested in Tas' and if he is interested in discovering that this is wrong, then this is a book for him to read. It IS contested.

I agree that this should be moved to maybe the politics thread. The initial reference to 'genocide and slavery' needed to be addressed.

 

[pjennings]

The point is there should be no 'history wars'. History is history. It is neither left or right. It is what happened.

I have read some articles by Windshuttle (in Quadrant that my uncle used to subscribe to) and found him to take references and misrepresent them. Historians interpret what they find from various sources. some do it better than others. I would not describe Windshuttlle as anywhere near one of the better ones. If I would have submitted some of his articles at school I would have not been surprised if it came back marked as - 'must do better'.

Blainey would have described Windshuttle as part of the 'Three Cheers' brigade. I would describe what I have read of him as very superficial, cherrypicked to highlight what he wants, while ignoring the majority of the historical record.

"To some extent my generation was reared on the Three Cheers view of history. This patriotic view of our past had a long run. It saw Australian history as largely a success. While the convict era was a source of shame or unease, nearly everything that came after was believed to be pretty good. There is a rival view, which I call the Black Armband view of history. In recent years it has assailed the optimistic view of history. The black armbands were quietly worn in official circles in 1988. The multicultural folk busily preached their message that until they arrived much of Australian history was a disgrace. The past treatment of Aborigines, of Chinese, of Kanakas, of non-British migrants, of women, the very old, the very young, and the poor was singled out, sometimes legitimately, sometimes not.... The Black Armband view of history might well represent the swing of the pendulum from a position that had been too favourable, too self congratulatory, to an opposite extreme that is even more unreal and decidedly jaundiced."

— Geoffrey Blainey, In Our Time, Melbourne, 1999

 

[Hello Sailor]

The point is there should be no 'history wars'. History is history. It is neither left or right. It is what happened.

I have read some articles by Windshuttle (in Quadrant that my uncle used to subscribe to) and found him to take references and misrepresent them. Historians interpret what they find from various sources. some do it better than others. I would not describe Windshuttlle as anywhere near one of the better ones. If I would have submitted some of his articles at school I would have not been surprised if it came back marked as - 'must do better'.

Blainey would have described Windshuttle as part of the 'Three Cheers' brigade. I would describe what I have read of him as very superficial, cherrypicked to highlight what he wants, while ignoring the majority of the historical record.

"To some extent my generation was reared on the Three Cheers view of history. This patriotic view of our past had a long run. It saw Australian history as largely a success. While the convict era was a source of shame or unease, nearly everything that came after was believed to be pretty good. There is a rival view, which I call the Black Armband view of history. In recent years it has assailed the optimistic view of history. The black armbands were quietly worn in official circles in 1988. The multicultural folk busily preached their message that until they arrived much of Australian history was a disgrace. The past treatment of Aborigines, of Chinese, of Kanakas, of non-British migrants, of women, the very old, the very young, and the poor was singled out, sometimes legitimately, sometimes not.... The Black Armband view of history might well represent the swing of the pendulum from a position that had been too favourable, too self congratulatory, to an opposite extreme that is even more unreal and decidedly jaundiced."

— Geoffrey Blainey, In Our Time, Melbourne, 1999

I agree with your initial statement but I also think it is naive. [eg Victors generally write history which put themselves in a better light than their opponents]. Unfortunately this means that history has to be scrutinised [as you did with Windschuttle] and ask whether there could be any bias.

I am not defending Windschuttle, but I thought this book was easy to read, and pleasantly surprised that his arguments were supported with multiple contemporary documentary and/or eye witness evidence. His criticism of historians on the other side of the war was compelling, eg cherry picking to fit their agenda while ignoring evidence contrary to it.

In any case he provides evidence that the claim for genocide in Tas IS contested.

 

[FFC Mariner]

FMD is there anything relevant to the thread here.
I avoid social media so I don't read this shit.
We were bad
We never fixed it.
They aren't going to take your house.
Chill. Enjoy the sunshine

 

[Hello Sailor]

FMD is there anything relevant to the thread here.
I avoid social media so I don't read this shit.
We were bad
We never fixed it.
They aren't going to take your house.
Chill. Enjoy the sunshine

Didn't you unsubscribe earlier?
You dont HAVE to respond.

 

[true believer]

So you are saying that Banks' journals state that he and Cook traded smallpox infected blankets with Australian aborigines in 1770? Love for you to post a copy of it {it would be history making] and please also explain how the epidemic was delayed for 18 years after the trade since the first outbreak was in 1789.

there is evidence of small pox in australia going back to the 17th century .
1778 certainly resulted in wide spread ,mass infections. largely because of the number of colonists.
instead of brief encounters with europeans in north and west australia .

 

[Hello Sailor]

there is evidence of small pox in australia going back to the 17th century .
1778 certainly resulted in wide spread ,mass infections. largely because of the number of colonists.
instead of brief encounters with europeans in north and west australia .

So not Genocide then

 

[true believer]

So not Genocide then

thats hardly implied . more to the point europeans were here alot longer than 1770 .

the effect of small pox on indigenous inhabitants was a well known poly .
after the spanish had first stumbled apon it in the defeat of the aztec empire .
george washington certainly used this tactic and cook would have been well aware of this .
knowing of the effect of small pox as a weapon was well known .

 

[Hello Sailor]

It was implied by others defending your initial post [which claims genocide] by infected blankets.
Cook and Banks probably DID know of the use of smallpox but smearing them with a claim of genocide by trading diseased blankets is unsubstantiated.

 

[true believer]

It was implied by others defending your initial post [which claims genocide] by infected blankets.
Cook and Banks probably DID know of the use of smallpox but smearing them with a claim of genocide by trading diseased blankets is unsubstantiated.

so why are you asking me to defend someone else's post ?

 

[Hello Sailor]

so why are you asking me to defend someone else's post ?

Why did you allow others to defend your post? You sat back and let others do that for you. At any time you could have expanded on your allegations but chose not to. This is not the first time that you have used that cheap 'genocide' shot.

 

[booney]

FMD how did a Matilda's thread get derailed into a discussion about Australian history?

 

[true believer]

Why did you allow others to defend your post? You sat back and let others do that for you. At any time you could have expanded on your allegations but chose not to. This is not the first time that you have used that cheap 'genocide' shot.

umm maybe you should look up the dictionary about "strawman arguments"
also these posts belong in the politics thread .

 

[FFC Mariner]

umm maybe you should look up the dictionary about "strawman arguments"
also these posts belong in the politics thread .

@adz is there somewhere else you can put this? Clearly nothing to do with Womens football

 

[Hello Sailor]

umm maybe you should look up the dictionary about "strawman arguments"
also these posts belong in the politics thread .

I am well aware of what a straw man is. The small pox blanket argument was proposed by one of your defenders when you failed to elaborate. I doubt that your defenders would consider their supporting arguments as straw men.
I have previously agreed that this belongs on the politics thread, and you should think twice before posting political material in a non political thread; after all your false claim of 'genocide and slavery' initiated this tangent. Since you cant justify your claims then I wont waste any more of my time on you.

 

[Hello Sailor]

oops this got a bit out of hand didn't it

will have to come back to this later there's a lot to go through

BTW Adz, how do I block another member's posts?

 

[FFC Mariner]

BTW Adz, how do I block another member's posts?

Click their profile pic and select ignore

 

[Hello Sailor]

Click their profile pic and select ignore

Cheers

 

[adz]

Went through and moved out a heap of chat. Hopefully didn't pick up any legit football chat.