Shopping list for the January window

[Insertnamehere]

Anyway he's proven he's worth more than a base deal. So hopefully we offer him something that recognises that, as with Rowles.
And hopefully despite our season and their management they recognise the opportunity they've been afforded. I don't want to see another Wales situation.

 

[Tevor]

I think Wales securing a starting spot at City probably has other young fellas thinking a gig at City under Joyce who likes to give young ones a go isn’t a bad deal. Victory or SFC and it would be a bench spot for sure however City give young guys a run, I like that about Joyce. Don’t like the prospects of Millar going to the scum though.

 

[Coastalraider]

So what's the reasoning behind that? Not getting the glory and putting us in the too hard basket? I mean, if this is true there should be no justification for wanting to leave so early in the season, except maybe a young player given the opportunity of a lifetime somewhere.

We need to stop lookin at these things with yellow tainted glasses.
This is a player who has played at the top levels. Recently.
Last year in a loan spell in this league with decent service he lead the golden boot comp. he very nearly won it even though he missed half the year.
Now he is loaned to a team that has limited resources, a below standard front 3rd and no recognised 10 to deliver him service. He is also played out of position to allow for Simon to be in field, even though Simon couldn’t get a start in any other team in the league.
It is entirely reasonable for him to go back to his actual employer (which we are not) and say ‘get me out of here, my career will not recover from this’.
Villa have to pay him regardless. If they can secure a loan for equal or similar percentage of wage from the loan club, in a higher level league, they win. If Ross can get a start in a higher league, with a decent midfield, he wins.

The issues we are having losing players, Ross, Millar, Rowles etc, are entirely of our own making.
For a number of years now we have proven time and again that we are not willing to operate at a level adequate for this league. Even though we now have spent the cap for the first time since MCs arrival, we still are not spending on marquees, a full compliment of support staff, we are not willing to purchase high wage players until very late in the off season, ensuring we start every year in the backfoot etc etc.

Given we have not been competitive for 5 years, we are in an extremely weak bargaining position with players. It’s easy to say ‘we should sign the juniors to multi year contract’, but why would they accept those terms? We offer a chance for young players to ‘play’, but they would still be looking to progress their careers ASAP. Its easy to say ‘why do we sign players line WeeMac and Simon on 2 year contracts’, but that is likely the only way we are actually able to sign players with real a league experience. They hold the cards.

The reason we used to be in such a strong position to recruit, retain, and ultimately sell youth was that we had a very strong senior squad to learn off, making us an attractive position to juniors. Now we dont, we can only offer game time. We used to tap in to the strong pool of juniors coming out of Western Sydney, now we can’t. We used to have a successful environment, with great performance culture, now we don’t.

We are a very unattractive proposition right now. Thinking we have any leverage at all with these players wanting to go elsewhere is naive, and thinking that forcing them to sign contracts to keep getting game time would only dig our own bloody deep hole much much deeper.

FC wouldn’t give a crap if some of their players talked to other teams - because they are a professionally run, well funded team. Players want to play there, and they will recruit effectively for anyone that does not.

We don’t.

 

[Tevor]

We need to stop lookin at these things with yellow tainted glasses.
This is a player who has played at the top levels. Recently.
Last year in a loan spell in this league with decent service he lead the golden boot comp. he very nearly won it even though he missed half the year.
Now he is loaned to a team that has limited resources, a below standard front 3rd and no recognised 10 to deliver him service. He is also played out of position to allow for Simon to be in field, even though Simon couldn’t get a start in any other team in the league.
It is entirely reasonable for him to go back to his actual employer (which we are not) and say ‘get me out of here, my career will not recover from this’.
Villa have to pay him regardless. If they can secure a loan for equal or similar percentage of wage from the loan club, in a higher level league, they win. If Ross can get a start in a higher league, with a decent midfield, he wins.

The issues we are having losing players, Ross, Millar, Rowles etc, are entirely of our own making.
For a number of years now we have proven time and again that we are not willing to operate at a level adequate for this league. Even though we now have spent the cap for the first time since MCs arrival, we still are not spending on marquees, a full compliment of support staff, we are not willing to purchase high wage players until very late in the off season, ensuring we start every year in the backfoot etc etc.

Given we have not been competitive for 5 years, we are in an extremely weak bargaining position with players. It’s easy to say ‘we should sign the juniors to multi year contract’, but why would they accept those terms? We offer a chance for young players to ‘play’, but they would still be looking to progress their careers ASAP. Its easy to say ‘why do we sign players line WeeMac and Simon on 2 year contracts’, but that is likely the only way we are actually able to sign players with real a league experience. They hold the cards.

The reason we used to be in such a strong position to recruit, retain, and ultimately sell youth was that we had a very strong senior squad to learn off, making us an attractive position to juniors. Now we dont, we can only offer game time. We used to tap in to the strong pool of juniors coming out of Western Sydney, now we can’t. We used to have a successful environment, with great performance culture, now we don’t.

We are a very unattractive proposition right now. Thinking we have any leverage at all with these players wanting to go elsewhere is naive, and thinking that forcing them to sign contracts to keep getting game time would only dig our own bloody deep hole much much deeper.

FC wouldn’t give a crap if some of their players talked to other teams - because they are a professionally run, well funded team. Players want to play there, and they will recruit effectively for anyone that does not.

We don’t.

Well said. I don’t give out “Winner” very often. Exactly where we are at and how hard it’s going to be to pull ourselves out of the very big hole we have ourselves in.

 

[turbo]

It’s easy to say ‘we should sign the juniors to multi year contract’, but why would they accept those terms? We offer a chance for young players to ‘play’, but they would still be looking to progress their careers ASAP. Its easy to say ‘why do we sign players line WeeMac and Simon on 2 year contracts’, but that is likely the only way we are actually able to sign players with real a league experience. They hold the cards.

I think you nailed that post but I disagree with this section a bit. For the older blokes how do they hold the cards? Who else is telling Simon or Mcglinchey they’ll give them a run? If they want to play in the A league it’s us or nothing. They could drop to NPL or play in a lower overseas league but they aren’t in a strong position.

For the players getting signed from NPL I think 3 years might be pushing it but 2 years should have been doable even if some sort of bonus or uplift criteria were there for year 2. Sure it restricts them but it gives security that their a league shot doesn’t evaporate if they take longer to get up to fitness, get on the pitch or get injured. I don’t think that’s a terribly hard sell but the more likely scenario is the club being risk adverse and thinking they have more bargaining power than they do.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/yeboah-signs-a-league-deal-after-german-exit

 

[Coastalraider]

I think you nailed that post but I disagree with this section a bit. For the older blokes how do they hold the cards? Who else is telling Simon or Mcglinchey they’ll give them a run? If they want to play in the A league it’s us or nothing. They could drop to NPL or play in a lower overseas league but they aren’t in a strong position.

For the players getting signed from NPL I think 3 years might be pushing it but 2 years should have been doable even if some sort of bonus or uplift criteria were there for year 2. Sure it restricts them but it gives security that their a league shot doesn’t evaporate if they take longer to get up to fitness, get on the pitch or get injured. I don’t think that’s a terribly hard sell but the more likely scenario is the club being risk adverse and thinking they have more bargaining power than they do.

See your points, but in regards to Simon and WeeMac, I still think they held the cards.
We made a very public proclamation that we were going to recruit ‘Matiners’ To bring back the old culture. There are only a few who qualify. I’m certain we approached those players with a sell angle of ‘we want you, we want you to help us bring back leadership and culture.
If they were simple free market older players, yes, I agree with you totally. But I feel we had set ourselves up to shift the Le stage to them given that we wanted to recruit a very specific player, of whom they were really the only realistic options to fill those roles.

 

[NoDiggity]

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/yeboah-signs-a-league-deal-after-german-exit

“His time in Germany wasn’t helped by injury niggles, the most recent of which sidelined him in September, and he was unable to force his way back in.”

Yep, sounds like a mariners signing.

 

[Coastalraider]

“His time in Germany wasn’t helped by injury niggles, the most recent of which sidelined him in September, and he was unable to force his way back in.”

Yep, sounds like a mariners signing.

And given he can ‘play out wide or more central’ we can keep starting Simon

 

[Insertnamehere]

“His time in Germany wasn’t helped by injury niggles, the most recent of which sidelined him in September, and he was unable to force his way back in.”

Yep, sounds like a mariners signing.

And he's a Mulvey roar boy isn't he?

 

[NoDiggity]

And he's a Mulvey roar boy isn't he?

Yep he sure is

 

[soccer mad]

We need to stop lookin at these things with yellow tainted glasses.
This is a player who has played at the top levels. Recently.
Last year in a loan spell in this league with decent service he lead the golden boot comp. he very nearly won it even though he missed half the year.
Now he is loaned to a team that has limited resources, a below standard front 3rd and no recognised 10 to deliver him service. He is also played out of position to allow for Simon to be in field, even though Simon couldn’t get a start in any other team in the league.
It is entirely reasonable for him to go back to his actual employer (which we are not) and say ‘get me out of here, my career will not recover from this’.
Villa have to pay him regardless. If they can secure a loan for equal or similar percentage of wage from the loan club, in a higher level league, they win. If Ross can get a start in a higher league, with a decent midfield, he wins.

The issues we are having losing players, Ross, Millar, Rowles etc, are entirely of our own making.
For a number of years now we have proven time and again that we are not willing to operate at a level adequate for this league. Even though we now have spent the cap for the first time since MCs arrival, we still are not spending on marquees, a full compliment of support staff, we are not willing to purchase high wage players until very late in the off season, ensuring we start every year in the backfoot etc etc.

Given we have not been competitive for 5 years, we are in an extremely weak bargaining position with players. It’s easy to say ‘we should sign the juniors to multi year contract’, but why would they accept those terms? We offer a chance for young players to ‘play’, but they would still be looking to progress their careers ASAP. Its easy to say ‘why do we sign players line WeeMac and Simon on 2 year contracts’, but that is likely the only way we are actually able to sign players with real a league experience. They hold the cards.

The reason we used to be in such a strong position to recruit, retain, and ultimately sell youth was that we had a very strong senior squad to learn off, making us an attractive position to juniors. Now we dont, we can only offer game time. We used to tap in to the strong pool of juniors coming out of Western Sydney, now we can’t. We used to have a successful environment, with great performance culture, now we don’t.

We are a very unattractive proposition right now. Thinking we have any leverage at all with these players wanting to go elsewhere is naive, and thinking that forcing them to sign contracts to keep getting game time would only dig our own bloody deep hole much much deeper.

FC wouldn’t give a crap if some of their players talked to other teams - because they are a professionally run, well funded team. Players want to play there, and they will recruit effectively for anyone that does not.

We don’t.

Totally agree with your sentiments, until we put football first why would anyone consider to play for Ccm . Even young national talent or youth would have second thoughts under our current system or level of coaching, it's ok to say will give you a run or give a taste of the big occasion but then to be demoralised by your opposition. Most of us can cop a defeat or 2 knowing that progress or team performance is projecting in the right direction. I'm going to show my age by this statement but back in old NSL days Frank Arok st George's and national coach was asked after his team lost 6nil about his thoughts after the game and he said I'd rather lose 6 nil than 6 games in other words it won't happen again.

 

[turbo]

We made a very public proclamation that we were going to recruit ‘Matiners’ To bring back the old culture

I would hope we had them locked in prior to any sort of proclamation but I see where you’re coming from. I guess I would have expected the sweetener to be some off pitch/post playing engagements rather than additional years up front or at least a 1 + 1 with conditions. Especially for Matt being a local boy transitioning to life after football could be quite helpful depending on what else he has in place already.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

If we are going to persist with Simon up front at least move him wide right in front of Millar and play Murray in the middle. We can't do any worse and I have the feeling that once Murray gets a couple he will grow in confidence.

I think Murray is a natural goal scorer too. But he’s not a winger. Wasted there.

 

[Ozhammer]

I think you nailed that post but I disagree with this section a bit. For the older blokes how do they hold the cards? Who else is telling Simon or Mcglinchey they’ll give them a run? If they want to play in the A league it’s us or nothing. They could drop to NPL or play in a lower overseas league but they aren’t in a strong position.

Simon had been offered a 1 year deal by SFC and Weemac had an offer from the MLS. MM persuaded them to come to us with the promise of a 2 year deal and a role in the leadership group of a club they held a deep affection for.

As has already been said in this thread, why would someone want to sign for us at the moment? Our situation has to have an impact on recruitment plain and simple. It was one thing MM selling a new dawn in pre-season but the present reality would surely make for difficult discussions bringing in anyone in the January window imo.

 

[turbo]

As has already been said in this thread, why would someone want to sign for us at the moment? Our situation has to have an impact on recruitment plain and simple. It was one thing MM selling a new dawn in pre-season but the present reality would surely make for difficult discussions bringing in anyone in the January window imo.

Thanks for the info I wasn’t aware of that. It doesn’t change my mind on those signings but it gives some perspective. I don’t think our position for signings is any better or worse than last year but that’s only because it’s hard to sink much lower. If we’re writing this season off we need to sign a strong couple of players early that can help us rebuild and that’s going to mean digging deep but it’s the cost of being tight catching up to us.

At the moment MM is a miss as have some of his signings been. I’d love nothing more than to be proven wrong by the end of the season but I don’t see it happening. We don’t look to be building in to a system or struggling with a game plan that’s going to work out and take us on a winning streak. We’re looking to poach a win here or there instead.

 

[pjennings]

I can see Kwame Yeboah being signed as a Ross replacement when he is sold by Villa in January..

Kwame has signed for 2 1/2 years at WSW.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Kwame has signed for 2 1/2 years at WSW.

Seemed likely Reds or WSW given German coaches not that he wouldn't have been approached by clubs without but I'm sure there would have been a mutual attraction.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Kwame has signed for 2 1/2 years at WSW.

Of course he has. Heaven forbid our club be professional enough to keep recruiting To cover gaps. Wsw are doing what needs to be done.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Of course he has. Heaven forbid our club be professional enough to keep recruiting To cover gaps. Wsw are doing what needs to be done.

I'm not fussed. We've got 3 strikers. 2 not really getting game time.