Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
Wilson - what part?
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Round Three Local Thread
- Thread starter Davo
- Start date
W
Wilson
Guest
As for 'jurisdiction on the field' - well, basically the AR has to figure out if the ref had a good view, or if the AR had a better view. If he thinks the ref had a clear view, then he should leave it - so sometimes, even right in front, the ref may have a clear view and the AR will leave it - although usually the closer to the AR, the more the ref will depend on the AR for the foul, unless he feels like he's had a decent view, or he thinks the AR has left it to him. Teamwork between refs is tricky, and it's a tough balance to get right.
Often on the line I've had offences happen some 40-50m away, and spectators asking me why I didn't flag. That far away, it's certainly within the referee's jurisdiction, and if the ref hasn't called it it's probably because his angle said something different. From that distance, the AR would only call it if he's adamant that the ref has missed something due to his angle (very, very rare case - normally you'd just assume the ref's view was better), or if the ref was looking over to you for help. 9/10 if the AR flags for something that's happened more within the refs 'territory', he's just interfering.
And then it comes down to confidence - it can take years for a young AR to develop the confidence to call fouls from the line. That's fair enough, and I always tell them the best place to start is calling the real blatant ones the ref's going to call anyway, then you can build up to calling the things the ref's missed. Really, the ref should find out the AR's confidence level before the match and take that into account.
As for throw-ins, AR's are generally told that if the ref signals first, just go with him even if you disagree. That's why, when the AR has a better view, the ref should hesitate first. If the ref's signalled straight away, then the AR's just supposed to agree, not offer a different opinion.
Often on the line I've had offences happen some 40-50m away, and spectators asking me why I didn't flag. That far away, it's certainly within the referee's jurisdiction, and if the ref hasn't called it it's probably because his angle said something different. From that distance, the AR would only call it if he's adamant that the ref has missed something due to his angle (very, very rare case - normally you'd just assume the ref's view was better), or if the ref was looking over to you for help. 9/10 if the AR flags for something that's happened more within the refs 'territory', he's just interfering.
And then it comes down to confidence - it can take years for a young AR to develop the confidence to call fouls from the line. That's fair enough, and I always tell them the best place to start is calling the real blatant ones the ref's going to call anyway, then you can build up to calling the things the ref's missed. Really, the ref should find out the AR's confidence level before the match and take that into account.
As for throw-ins, AR's are generally told that if the ref signals first, just go with him even if you disagree. That's why, when the AR has a better view, the ref should hesitate first. If the ref's signalled straight away, then the AR's just supposed to agree, not offer a different opinion.
W
Wilson
Guest
What FIFA says
Duties
Two assistant referees may be appointed whose duties, subject to the
decision of the referee, are to indicate:
when the whole of the ball leaves the fi eld of play
which team is entitled to a corner kick, goal kick or throw-in
when a player may be penalised for being in an offside position
when a substitution is requested
when misconduct or any other incident occurs out of the view of
the referee
when offences have been committed whenever the assistant
referees have a better view than the referee (this includes, in
certain circumstances, offences committed in the penalty area)
whether, at penalty kicks, the goalkeeper moves off the goal line
before the ball is kicked and if the ball crosses the line
Assistance
The assistant referees also assist the referee to control the match in
accordance with the Laws of the Game. In particular, they may enter
the fi eld of play to help control the 9.15 m (10 yds) distance.
In the event of undue interference or improper conduct, the referee
will relieve an assistant referee of his duties and make a report to the
appropriate authorities.
Duties
Two assistant referees may be appointed whose duties, subject to the
decision of the referee, are to indicate:
when the whole of the ball leaves the fi eld of play
which team is entitled to a corner kick, goal kick or throw-in
when a player may be penalised for being in an offside position
when a substitution is requested
when misconduct or any other incident occurs out of the view of
the referee
when offences have been committed whenever the assistant
referees have a better view than the referee (this includes, in
certain circumstances, offences committed in the penalty area)
whether, at penalty kicks, the goalkeeper moves off the goal line
before the ball is kicked and if the ball crosses the line
Assistance
The assistant referees also assist the referee to control the match in
accordance with the Laws of the Game. In particular, they may enter
the fi eld of play to help control the 9.15 m (10 yds) distance.
In the event of undue interference or improper conduct, the referee
will relieve an assistant referee of his duties and make a report to the
appropriate authorities.
Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
Wilson - there's always a lot more to football than what's in the LOTG, just like there's a lot more to how the laws are interpreted and applied than what's written.
AR's do have all those duties - but the first line states 'subject to the decision of the referee'. So, by that, a ref can tell the AR he doesn't want him signalling a damn thing, and that's within the laws.
Most refereeing practice has evolved into what works best, through trial and error.
As for the 'jurisdiction' thing, any referee will know - probably better than anybody - just how important it is to be in the right position to make a call. What looks like a blatant foul against the red team from one angle may in fact be a blatant foul against the blue team - I've had times on the line when the ref has given a FK against the team who I thought got fouled, thus I can only assume he saw something better (and usually when I query later, this is the case). Of course it's frustrating to the spectators, but like them, the AR is basically stuck with a single view, whereas the ref can roam all around the field to get a better angle.
That's one thing I notice on the line - spectators will understandably fire up about a particular incident, but through experience of looking at fouls it becomes easy to see when a particular angle may be deceptive.
Then, naturally, when you're too far away from play it makes it harder to spot what's going on (though it's also possible to be too close to play - if players are a yard or two away, you may see nothing but a blur).
That's why, the further away the incident is from the AR, the less likely it is that he should call it. Even right on front of the AR, if the ref has a clear view and is fine with it, the AR should generally leave it for the ref (though the teamwork here varies between officials. Some refs will always wait for the AR's call in his 'area). If it's in the middle of the park, or the far side, then the AR has to acknowledge that his view probably isn't all that great, and the ref probably has a better one, thus should only flag if he thinks the ref has completely missed something (say, something off the ball), or the ref is looking over for help.
When I'm reffing, I always remind my AR's that the sort of things I'm likely to miss that are closer to me are pushing in the back, shirt pulling and deliberate handball - all things very easy to miss if you've got the wrong angle. For the AR to intervene when it's reasonable to assume the ref has a good view, when the AR knows his view isn't the best, and when the ref isn't looking for help...well, that's when he starts to interfere. The AR is only there to assist the referee, he isn't there to be a ref. The AR also has to call things the same way the ref is - if the ref is basically letting all pushing in the back go, then the AR has to apply the same standard.
So there are times when the AR is sure the ref's missed something, but also thinks the ref's had a perfectly clear view and a good angle, so generally he should leave it to the ref. But if he thinks something completely blatant has been missed......remember our GF against newcastle? It was the AR on the far end of the park who told the ref there was a deliberate handball. You'd only call something from that far away if you were absolutely certain (in those cases, 1% of doubt means you don't call it), but the AR did the right thing there.
Where to draw the line between assisting and interfering is a very fine one, and is one of the reasons why being a good AR is actually a really hard job.
The last paragraph about agreeing with the ref's signal, I don't agree with it, but that's what we're taught (we all go together, we look like a team, and it looks more convincing and certain than contradicting each other). If you have good officials though, then the ref will only signal first when he's certain he's seen a deflection the AR may have missed, and in that case the AR should assume that's what's happened, so generally the idea of 'going with the ref' works well, but there are times that it does allow the wrong decision to be made.
But then again, even if the AR was allowed to disagree with the ref, the ref still has to figure out why and decide who had the best view - so the wrong decision is still going to be made, probably just as often, except the players will complain more about it "look at your bloody linesman ref, he said it was our ball!".
AR's do have all those duties - but the first line states 'subject to the decision of the referee'. So, by that, a ref can tell the AR he doesn't want him signalling a damn thing, and that's within the laws.
Most refereeing practice has evolved into what works best, through trial and error.
As for the 'jurisdiction' thing, any referee will know - probably better than anybody - just how important it is to be in the right position to make a call. What looks like a blatant foul against the red team from one angle may in fact be a blatant foul against the blue team - I've had times on the line when the ref has given a FK against the team who I thought got fouled, thus I can only assume he saw something better (and usually when I query later, this is the case). Of course it's frustrating to the spectators, but like them, the AR is basically stuck with a single view, whereas the ref can roam all around the field to get a better angle.
That's one thing I notice on the line - spectators will understandably fire up about a particular incident, but through experience of looking at fouls it becomes easy to see when a particular angle may be deceptive.
Then, naturally, when you're too far away from play it makes it harder to spot what's going on (though it's also possible to be too close to play - if players are a yard or two away, you may see nothing but a blur).
That's why, the further away the incident is from the AR, the less likely it is that he should call it. Even right on front of the AR, if the ref has a clear view and is fine with it, the AR should generally leave it for the ref (though the teamwork here varies between officials. Some refs will always wait for the AR's call in his 'area). If it's in the middle of the park, or the far side, then the AR has to acknowledge that his view probably isn't all that great, and the ref probably has a better one, thus should only flag if he thinks the ref has completely missed something (say, something off the ball), or the ref is looking over for help.
When I'm reffing, I always remind my AR's that the sort of things I'm likely to miss that are closer to me are pushing in the back, shirt pulling and deliberate handball - all things very easy to miss if you've got the wrong angle. For the AR to intervene when it's reasonable to assume the ref has a good view, when the AR knows his view isn't the best, and when the ref isn't looking for help...well, that's when he starts to interfere. The AR is only there to assist the referee, he isn't there to be a ref. The AR also has to call things the same way the ref is - if the ref is basically letting all pushing in the back go, then the AR has to apply the same standard.
So there are times when the AR is sure the ref's missed something, but also thinks the ref's had a perfectly clear view and a good angle, so generally he should leave it to the ref. But if he thinks something completely blatant has been missed......remember our GF against newcastle? It was the AR on the far end of the park who told the ref there was a deliberate handball. You'd only call something from that far away if you were absolutely certain (in those cases, 1% of doubt means you don't call it), but the AR did the right thing there.
Where to draw the line between assisting and interfering is a very fine one, and is one of the reasons why being a good AR is actually a really hard job.
The last paragraph about agreeing with the ref's signal, I don't agree with it, but that's what we're taught (we all go together, we look like a team, and it looks more convincing and certain than contradicting each other). If you have good officials though, then the ref will only signal first when he's certain he's seen a deflection the AR may have missed, and in that case the AR should assume that's what's happened, so generally the idea of 'going with the ref' works well, but there are times that it does allow the wrong decision to be made.
But then again, even if the AR was allowed to disagree with the ref, the ref still has to figure out why and decide who had the best view - so the wrong decision is still going to be made, probably just as often, except the players will complain more about it "look at your bloody linesman ref, he said it was our ball!".
Part_Timer
Well-Known Member
kanewillow could pass for 13 i reckon
Ted
Well-Known Member
We ended up with only 9 players from the 13Bs and we borrowed 2 x 12E players to make up the 11. Held them to a nil all half time scoreline and we were most unlucky not to be up 3-0 with sevaral of our shots rebounding off the posts. We ran out of steam in the 2nd half with no subs and defensive lapses resulted in 3 easy goals against us.
Kano where were you? lol. jk mate.
Kano where were you? lol. jk mate.
marinermick
Well-Known Member
Ted said:35C
Killarney 3 - Shelly Beach Fossils 2.
I scored the winning goal(left footer and my first for the season)
good stuff
you must have got all your loose shots out of the way at futsal monday night
Ted
Well-Known Member
marinermick said:Ted said:35C
Killarney 3 - Shelly Beach Fossils 2.
I scored the winning goal
good stuff
you must have got all your loose shots out of the way at futsal monday night
haha, I certainly hope so mate. It felt bloody good to slam a lefty in today too.
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