Response to Michael Cokerill's article in Sydney Morning Herald on Dec 21

[LOYALCCMFAN]

To Michael Cockerill: Michael, I agree with your article in general but you have a few important facts wrong. I know the history of the Mariners and have spoken to Mike Charlesworth. Firstly, the club is losing well over $1M a year today and that's the main driver for Mike; to try and reduce losses and make the club commercially viable. Secondly, when McKinna was active with the club, it lost multiple millions of dollars, that's why the other shareholders left and Mike Charlesworth stepped in to become the sole owner at significant expense! McKinna needs to support the club constructively and not try and constantly undermine it. If the community truly want a "local" club, then more fans need to understand that it has to be commercially viable and they have to do what they can to help. I think it will be great if 10,000+ fans show up to the next game "to prove the club should stay." The issue is, that needs to happen for every game. The community has to do what it can to help the club reach financial viability and from my sources that means to breakeven not make a huge profit. My guess is that if the club could do this, there’d be no question about where the Central Coast Mariners should be based.

 

[Bladesman]

As the old saying goes "What's the easiest way to become a millionaire, start as a billionaire and buy a football club."

So I get that MC doesn't want to loose money, probably shouldn't have bought a football club then, there are not many people who make money from them.

if he wants to run it as a business though then run it as one properly. Build a good product people want, market it, treat your customers well, partner with key stakeholders.

Unfortunately MC wants it to be a business to justify his actions but wants all the benefits of a club - blind loyalty for customers, special investment from stakeholders such as the council. When you sell off your best products and don't treat your customers well your business is in trouble and this is what MC has. This is usually followed by a number of rash decisions that make things worse such as North Sydney and that is exactly the situation we are in now.

 

[mariner72]

Of course MC wants to run the club as a business just like every other club in the A League, what do you think the club is a charity? I live in Hornsby and its about time some of you up there accept the inevitable that the club needs to be viable or find another benefactor. Stop moaning and support the club it clearly needs everyone's help right now or MC will walk. Perhaps we should channel some energy in campaigning for some support from Gosford Council who should be bending over backwards to keep the club on the Coast full time.

Go the Mariners, I'll be there with extended family on the 27th whether they like it or not !

 

[LOYALCCMFAN]

I'm not saying that I agree with everything that MC and the management is doing, things need improving there for sure. However without the support of the fans and the community, there's little chance of changing anything. Let's remeber MC took over after others bailed. He's in this 100% because he was the last man standing and that deserves some credit. I think we can get MC to work with the supporters club to do what's necessary.

 

[Capt. Awesome]

. Secondly, when McKinna was active with the club, it lost multiple millions of dollars, that's why the other shareholders left and Mike Charlesworth stepped in to become the sole owner at significant expense! McKinna needs to support the club constructively and not try and constantly undermine it. .

This statement has so many flaws. Firstly Mckinna wasn't the reason why the club lost all the money in fact Mckinna never had a roles within the club that greatly affected the financial viability of the club. He was a coach, the director of football and then an embasitor for the club. The club lost heaps of money because Turnbull had financial troubles with the GFC. In the years Lawrie was active with the club actually saw at least one year with a profit. Has Mike achieved that ???
Lawrie has worked out there is no point having a club if it is moved to the North Shore. He has also worked out like everybody else including every reporters, media and people who have great knowledge of the situation of fooball in Australia that the split region clubs don't work. Lawrie as a representative of the coast's people could not support moving the team away. That is not undermining that is standing up for what is right.
The club can be viable on the coast and that is what Lawrie is being constructive and actually engaging the community, something the club should have already done. Mike is doing opposite - insulting the fans of the coast instead of engaging them.

 

[LOYALCCMFAN]

I agree that the club CAN be viable on the coast. My personal opinion is that if CCM Management (including MC) and Lawrie McKinna get together with the aim of discussing making the club viable in Gosford for the benefit of all, that would be a great step.

 

[gull]

To Michael Cockerill: Michael, I agree with your article in general but you have a few important facts wrong. I know the history of the Mariners and have spoken to Mike Charlesworth. Firstly, the club is losing well over $1M a year today and that's the main driver for Mike; to try and reduce losses and make the club commercially viable. Secondly, when McKinna was active with the club, it lost multiple millions of dollars, that's why the other shareholders left and Mike Charlesworth stepped in to become the sole owner at significant expense! McKinna needs to support the club constructively and not try and constantly undermine it. If the community truly want a "local" club, then more fans need to understand that it has to be commercially viable and they have to do what they can to help. I think it will be great if 10,000+ fans show up to the next game "to prove the club should stay." The issue is, that needs to happen for every game. The community has to do what it can to help the club reach financial viability and from my sources that means to breakeven not make a huge profit. My guess is that if the club could do this, there’d be no question about where the Central Coast Mariners should be based.

I can't see how McKinna encouraging more people to attend the games is undermining the club?

 

[Bladesman]

Of course MC wants to run the club as a business just like every other club in the A League, what do you think the club is a charity? I live in Hornsby and its about time some of you up there accept the inevitable that the club needs to be viable or find another benefactor. Stop moaning and support the club it clearly needs everyone's help right now or MC will walk. Perhaps we should channel some energy in campaigning for some support from Gosford Council who should be bending over backwards to keep the club on the Coast full time.

Go the Mariners, I'll be there with extended family on the 27th whether they like it or not !

No problems with him running it like a business and at present he is getting the results he deserves. Just don't turn round and start blaming your customers like he has.

He has made business decisions that have led to a loss of his customers from selling our best talent and not replacing them, falling out with key stakeholders like CCF and the council and then taking games elsewhere. His customers have voted with their feet and he has only himself and his management team to blame. Telling your customers it is there fault for you poor product is not a great business strategy.

Might also want to take a look at how other sports are doing it -

Ivan Spyrdz (@IvanSpyrdz)
23/12/2014 12:50 pm
Great meeting with @pjanderson2012 & @LawrieMcKinna Great proactive council is @gosford_council Working for a better #CentralCoast #Cricket

 

[gull]

Of course MC wants to run the club as a business just like every other club in the A League, what do you think the club is a charity? I live in Hornsby and its about time some of you up there accept the inevitable that the club needs to be viable or find another benefactor. Stop moaning and support the club it clearly needs everyone's help right now or MC will walk. Perhaps we should channel some energy in campaigning for some support from Gosford Council who should be bending over backwards to keep the club on the Coast full time.

Go the Mariners, I'll be there with extended family on the 27th whether they like it or not !

So apart from supplying the lowest rent in the A-League, a playing surface that is consistently voted the best in the league, and being a sleeve sponsor of the team you feel that Council should do more? What else would you suggest?

The local support for the club clearly began to wane when our beloved saviour started to talk about moving games. Many were burnt by the Northern Eagles debacle, and don't want to see a similar situation for the Mariners. There are the rusted on members, but the part timers won't waste their time in a club they perceive to be moving. Only one person to blame for this.

There have been many intelligent discussions in this forum also asking just why we lose money given we have the lowest rent, no marquee, and the player payments are covered by the Fox grant.

 

[LOYALCCMFAN]

So apart from supplying the lowest rent in the A-League, a playing surface that is consistently voted the best in the league, and being a sleeve sponsor of the team you feel that Council should do more? What else would you suggest?

The local support for the club clearly began to wane when our beloved saviour started to talk about moving games. Many were burnt by the Northern Eagles debacle, and don't want to see a similar situation for the Mariners. There are the rusted on members, but the part timers won't waste their time in a club they perceive to be moving. Only one person to blame for this.

There have been many intelligent discussions in this forum also asking just why we lose money given we have the lowest rent, no marquee, and the player payments are covered by the Fox grant.

Giving the press misleading info that undermines the management/owners is not helpful to the CCM. Pretty sure your assumption that player payments being covered by FOXSports is inaccurate. All parties need to work together with no agendas other than the success of the CCM.

 

[elevated position]

Giving the press misleading info that undermines the management/owners is not helpful to the CCM. Pretty sure your assumption that player payments being covered by FOXSports is inaccurate. All parties need to work together with no agendas other than the success of the CCM.

Who is giving the press misleading info? And Gull did not say FoxSports were covering the player wages as we all know that FFA pays the wages to the cap so Bruce where does the other income go ?

 

[Bladesman]

Giving the press misleading info that undermines the management/owners is not helpful to the CCM. Pretty sure your assumption that player payments being covered by FOXSports is inaccurate. All parties need to work together with no agendas other than the success of the CCM.

Why not just provide the real info then if misleading info is undermining things?

 

[LOYALCCMFAN]

Who is giving the press misleading info? And Gull did not say FoxSports were covering the player wages as we all know that FFA pays the wages to the cap so Bruce where does the other income go ?

Not Bruce, just a fan that wants to see the club on top again. I was referring to the info that suggested the club was making money in the past when Lawrie McKinna was active. I don't believe it was. I don't know about income/expense at all.

 

[Capt. Awesome]

To Michael Cockerill: Michael, I agree with your article in general but you have a few important facts wrong. I know the history of the Mariners and have spoken to Mike Charlesworth. Firstly, the club is losing well over $1M a year today and that's the main driver for Mike; to try and reduce losses and make the club commercially viable. Secondly, when McKinna was active with the club, it lost multiple millions of dollars, that's why the other shareholders left and Mike Charlesworth stepped in to become the sole owner at significant expense! McKinna needs to support the club constructively and not try and constantly undermine it. If the community truly want a "local" club, then more fans need to understand that it has to be commercially viable and they have to do what they can to help. I think it will be great if 10,000+ fans show up to the next game "to prove the club should stay." The issue is, that needs to happen for every game. The community has to do what it can to help the club reach financial viability and from my sources that means to breakeven not make a huge profit. My guess is that if the club could do this, there’d be no question about where the Central Coast Mariners should be based.

Are you Mike Charlsworth???

 

[LOYALCCMFAN]

No I am not. As I said, I am a fan that wants the CCM to stay in Gosford and feels that all parties should cooperate for the good of the club. I thought the article by Cockerill wasn't fair. I appreciate the community helps but constantly criticizing the owner will lead nowhere good. I genuily want the club to succeed.

 

[adz]

The funny thing is we are all mostly arguing the exact same points;

* The Mariners are losing money and cannot rely on Mike Charlesworth to keep dipping into his pocket every year to prop things up
* SOMETHING has to be done about it because the club might not exist for too long if it keeps going as is


Here's where opinions divide. From the Club's (apparent) point of view;

* Fans are to blame for not turning out to games. The club is "built" so fans should "come".
* The ONLY way to make the club viable is to move games to North Sydney.


My opinion;

* I've seen people say MC is running the club like a business. Doesn't seem like great business to expect customers to flock to it just because it exists. There is plenty of competition out there with other codes, maybe not based on the Coast but very accessible via the internets and pay TV.
* The North Sydney idea has been shot down by everyone but the club. Maybe there is something in that?


Back to the drawing board I'd say, because North Sydney is NOT the answer.

 

[Gratis]

there has been plenty of discussion already on the finances and viability of the club - wages are completely covered by the TV deal and more is coming. crowds have averaged near 13k before and with the right engagement could again.
it's a no brainer really, combine treating the coast market like valued customers and engage them and add to that the new, upcoming TV deal and there are no ongoing losses.
I suggest rereading some of the old threads.

 

[rbakersmith]

crowds have averaged near 13k before and with the right engagement could again.

That 13k average from 07/08 was only achieved because there were games with 17k, 18k and 19k in the same season. Take those games out and the average drops back to around 10k.

 

[mariner72]

So apart from supplying the lowest rent in the A-League, a playing surface that is consistently voted the best in the league, and being a sleeve sponsor of the team you feel that Council should do more? What else would you suggest?

The local support for the club clearly began to wane when our beloved saviour started to talk about moving games. Many were burnt by the Northern Eagles debacle, and don't want to see a similar situation for the Mariners. There are the rusted on members, but the part timers won't waste their time in a club they perceive to be moving. Only one person to blame for this.

There have been many intelligent discussions in this forum also asking just why we lose money given we have the lowest rent, no marquee, and the player payments are covered by the Fox grant.[/QUOTE

 

[Roy Law]

Giving the press misleading info that undermines the management/owners is not helpful to the CCM. Pretty sure your assumption that player payments being covered by FOXSports is inaccurate. All parties need to work together with no agendas other than the success of the CCM.

It seems to me the Club management is as guilty as anyone with misleading information