R2 v Jets - 48th F3 Derby

[midfielder]

We were the better side. Shafted by the VAR yet again.

A bushy from the dead heart of Australia, works fencing and anything he can find.

He passes, and goes to Hell.

The devil sets him to work in the furnace stocking the coals.

Devil comes back a while latter and he is smiling saying I just love this heat, I feel right at home.

So the devil ups the heat a lot, and comes back and the bushie is singing and as happy as ever.

The devil being evil & cunning realises, its cold not heat that will effect the bushies, so the devil turns everything to ice.

The devil comes back, and says what do you think now, and the bushie replies, The Mariners got a fair call off Var… the devil says how do you know that or even think that...

The Bushie says well "Hell has frozen over"

 

[pjennings]

Murray and fox were forced subs to prevent further injury.
Murray - hamstring
Otherwise Silvera would have come on I would say.

Kim has way more of an effect than one would think.
His substitution gave the Mariners some composure and confidence to hold the ball and instantly raised completed passes and possession to redirect the game.

Almost connected with the frontline on 2 amazing penetrating passes!
Passes with intent and direction behind the backline we have not seen in a long time.

And the save by Birra that stopped the snakes somewhat decent volley was a god send. Thank Christ for that.

They had 2 very obvious tactics that hopefully we learn from for next game.

But everyone can agree, end to end excitement and lots of heart attack moments.

Silvera was about to come on when Fox went down and then he was told to sit down and soon after Kim came on.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

So frustrating. Hard to not think about last season - yet another draw from a game we could've/should've won.
And like last season, the moment they scored, we completely fell apart. We lost our structure, we lost our individual skill, we lost our 1-on-1 victories we had all game. We looked quite good until then. Dynamic, linking up well, skilful.
We didn't start to lift until late in the half - and personally, I think DDS constantly going at it, showing a lot of hunger and a lot of skill helped lift the team out of the slump. So, there's definitely some of the same psychology from last year - our distinct lack of confidence. And given we're unlikely to score 2 goals in a game, that's going to keep killing us. And if it takes us more than a few weeks for our first win, we're going to have a very big problem on our hands.
Ziggy, did well as a wingback - though there was one time near the end he tried crossing when he needed to back himself.
Fox did well, Duric had a cracker. Biri, very happy with that signing.
Matt Simon is just trash these days. He should not be captain, and he should not be in the squad, not even on the bench.
That yellow card, it was just a 'f**kwit' card, through and through. Clearly deliberate, and absolutely no purpose to it. But Simon is such a filthy player that he literally can't help himself these days.
He should not be captain. One of the things I believe Staj has been working on is our discipline, after we had I think the poorest record last season. Then you have the most undisciplined player in the team in Simon - giving him the Captain's armband is just giving the wrong message; it's okaying poor discipline. If Simon can't lead by example, then give the armband to somebody who can. And not just that, but every time the camera is on him he's berating the referee. When you have a player who is constantly dissenting, constantly fouling and mouthing off - yes, of course when he commits a borderline yellow card foul, he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt when a player who hasn't been a problem will. That's actually good refereeing when that happens (and on that note, I thought the ref had a cracker).
As a player, he literally did absolutely nothing. A witches hat would be more useful. From a player who used to run like the wind, he's now the laziest on the park. Birighetti probably sweated more. Take the final few minutes - long lob, their keeper catches it high right on the line. WHY wasn't Matty sprinting and up in his face to try and annoy him for that header? Matty isn't even hungry any more. I don't even think he's worth being a sub. He's honestly one of the worst attackers in the league. I'd rather have Appiah back.
I actually found myself hoping he'd get sent off so maybe Staj could finally see just how toxic he is on the field.
Also, Petratos is just a piece of shit. I really wish deliberately vandalising field equipment was a red card offence. No class.

And GG for that handball penalty - what the actual flap was he doing. Just idiotic. Congratulations mate, you threw the game away.

If the VAR is going to be that pedantic, they really should have replayed the 2nd penalty attempt. It looked like Jets players encroached into the area before the ball was struck.

Agreed. This is my problem - and I said the same thing in the Women's World Cup.
The 2nd penalty should NOT have stood as a goal because of outfield player encroachment. The law is just as black and white for those as it is for the keeper. Those players encroached something like 2 yards, versus Biri's maybe 6 inches inches.

Silvera was about to come on when Fox went down and then he was told to sit down and soon after Kim came on.

I hope Kim comes good - he was disappointing tonight

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

This is where it's a very slippery slope, if you start using VAR to pick up any infringement of the rules as they are written... You MUST apply it to everything else.

How is it a slippery slope? It's written that VAR is for penalty incidents, including encroachment.
Using it when the keeper encroaches by 6 inches but not when attackers encroach by 2 yards is blatantly inconsistent.
I don't think anybody likes VAR for keeper encroachment. That should be back to the AR and the AR/ref can decide whether it's a small encroachment that has an impact, or a large one that just needs to be called - and VAR can check that if the AR calls encroachment, he's correct.

 

[ballantyne]

The full strength beer at the western grandstand, north end: supposed to taste like that?

 

[priorpeter]

Video implies it was road rage scummer v scummer

Have confirmed it was scummer v scummer. Not for the first time tonight either. I was approached by a Newcastle fan post game who explained how one of his fellow scummers was head butted & had his nose broken by a bloke in the NCL - apparently just because he had painted nails. Bloke ended up in hospital apparently. Peak Newcastle.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

If the VAR is going to be that pedantic, they really should have replayed the 2nd penalty attempt. It looked like Jets players encroached into the area before the ball was struck.

They absolutely did.

But this is happening all the time still and I’ve only seen them pull it back on a missed/saved - never a scored pen,

 

[Forum Phoenix]

How good is Duric.

Looking like the best visa player we’ve had in a long time.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

So frustrating. Hard to not think about last season - yet another draw from a game we could've/should've won.
And like last season, the moment they scored, we completely fell apart. We lost our structure, we lost our individual skill, we lost our 1-on-1 victories we had all game. We looked quite good until then. Dynamic, linking up well, skilful.
We didn't start to lift until late in the half - and personally, I think DDS constantly going at it, showing a lot of hunger and a lot of skill helped lift the team out of the slump. So, there's definitely some of the same psychology from last year - our distinct lack of confidence. And given we're unlikely to score 2 goals in a game, that's going to keep killing us. And if it takes us more than a few weeks for our first win, we're going to have a very big problem on our hands.
Ziggy, did well as a wingback - though there was one time near the end he tried crossing when he needed to back himself.
Fox did well, Duric had a cracker. Biri, very happy with that signing.
Matt Simon is just trash these days. He should not be captain, and he should not be in the squad, not even on the bench.
That yellow card, it was just a 'f**kwit' card, through and through. Clearly deliberate, and absolutely no purpose to it. But Simon is such a filthy player that he literally can't help himself these days.
He should not be captain. One of the things I believe Staj has been working on is our discipline, after we had I think the poorest record last season. Then you have the most undisciplined player in the team in Simon - giving him the Captain's armband is just giving the wrong message; it's okaying poor discipline. If Simon can't lead by example, then give the armband to somebody who can. And not just that, but every time the camera is on him he's berating the referee. When you have a player who is constantly dissenting, constantly fouling and mouthing off - yes, of course when he commits a borderline yellow card foul, he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt when a player who hasn't been a problem will. That's actually good refereeing when that happens (and on that note, I thought the ref had a cracker).
As a player, he literally did absolutely nothing. A witches hat would be more useful. From a player who used to run like the wind, he's now the laziest on the park. Birighetti probably sweated more. Take the final few minutes - long lob, their keeper catches it high right on the line. WHY wasn't Matty sprinting and up in his face to try and annoy him for that header? Matty isn't even hungry any more. I don't even think he's worth being a sub. He's honestly one of the worst attackers in the league. I'd rather have Appiah back.
I actually found myself hoping he'd get sent off so maybe Staj could finally see just how toxic he is on the field.
Also, Petratos is just a piece of shit. I really wish deliberately vandalising field equipment was a red card offence. No class.

And GG for that handball penalty - what the actual flap was he doing. Just idiotic. Congratulations mate, you threw the game away.

Agreed. This is my problem - and I said the same thing in the Women's World Cup.
The 2nd penalty should NOT have stood as a goal because of outfield player encroachment. The law is just as black and white for those as it is for the keeper. Those players encroached something like 2 yards, versus Biri's maybe 6 inches inches.

I hope Kim comes good - he was disappointing tonight

We’re a much better side than last year. In every aspect except upfront really.

 

[scottmac]

I guarantee that VAR encroachment call will be like the diving call for Perez. Called once on the mariners for the first time then never again.

 

[Ozhammer]

Smack of a face saving set up much?

Jeez, no need to look up gullible for that one.

 

[shipwreck]

How is it a slippery slope? It's written that VAR is for penalty incidents, including encroachment.
Using it when the keeper encroaches by 6 inches but not when attackers encroach by 2 yards is blatantly inconsistent.
I don't think anybody likes VAR for keeper encroachment. That should be back to the AR and the AR/ref can decide whether it's a small encroachment that has an impact, or a large one that just needs to be called - and VAR can check that if the AR calls encroachment, he's correct.

I'm agreeing with him. It's a slippery slope in that the referees are opening themselves up to the possibility of a penalty having to be retaken 6 times because every black and white law that is broken is caught and brought to justice.

It's a slippery slope because of the fact it's killing the game and turning fans away.

It's a slippery slope because once you do it one game it becomes precedent.

 

[scottmac]

I'm agreeing with him. It's a slippery slope in that the referees are opening themselves up to the possibility of a penalty having to be retaken 6 times because every black and white law that is broken is caught and brought to justice.

It's a slippery slope because of the fact it's killing the game and turning fans away.

It's a slippery slope because once you do it one game it becomes precedent.

It's shit that VAR is needed for that. The ref didn't call it nor the assistant. f**k VAR in that instance. play on.

 

[LFCMariners]

They absolutely did.

But this is happening all the time still and I’ve only seen them pull it back on a missed/saved - never a scored pen,

They would call it back for a scored CCM pen. They'd find a way to keep calling infringements until the keeper saved it while encroaching by 2 metres, then allow the saved penalty to stand.

 

[shipwreck]

How good would it be if they could do a completely neutral VAR review.

Capture all the same data, but have the teams uniforms completely blanked out, the orientation of the play flipped, all references to stadium or external features gone such that you had absolutely no way of knowing what team you were reviewing.

I wonder out loud what difference it would make.

 

[Pirate Pete]

Smack of a face saving set up much?

Jeez, no need to look up gullible for that one.

Totally agree Oz.
I don't see a problem with them taking that last night. In fact I would have expected it.
I wouldn't have worried at all with them unfurling that. Jealous maybe.
Where's our bloody great flag to take to scumdome Shaun?

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

As for the retaken penalty not being pulled back.....
 offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick
• encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly
involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost,
crossbar or goalkeeper

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/771/134351_010618_LotG_18_19_EN_VAR_protocol.pdf

That was in a separate document to the VAR section on the IFAB website.
(incidentally, the previous and more hefty VAR handbook only allows keeper encroachment to be penalised if it has a clear impact). Still stupid for VAR to only be involved on the keeper when both parts of the law are black and white. Either rule on encroachment at a penalty or don't - doing it on only the keeper is inherently unfair.

Still on the ref for letting attacker encroachment go.
Incidentally, the EPL doesn't use VAR for penalties. I haven't heard anybody in favour of this VAR usage - it's just dumb, and it's a clear creep from what VAR is really for.

 

[shipwreck]

What happens if the keeper comes off his line and the player misses all together?

What happens if the keeper is off his line as a result of the player goose stepping or deliberately faking to make the keeper commit early?

What happens if the keeper is off his line, saves it and then an attacking player gets the rebound and subsequently kicks it in?

.... Slip slip

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

What happens if the keeper comes off his line and the player misses all together?

What happens if the keeper is off his line as a result of the player goose stepping or deliberately faking to make the keeper commit early?

What happens if the keeper is off his line, saves it and then an attacking player gets the rebound and subsequently kicks it in?

.... Slip slip

Agree. These are all why it should remain a judgement call.

For me, as a referee, my judgement was I'd allow a small amount of encroachment. But then it depends - a keeper encroaching by, say a yard and making a fingertip save, versus a keeper encroaching by a yard and saving a ball that went straight at him or it went over. A yard on a fingertip save? That makes a difference, but not the latter. So, retake the former, not the latter. Once he's encroached by a few yards, that's so blatant I'd get it retaken no matter what happens. And same withoutfield players. A small encroachment by a player who becomes involved in play immediately is going to be a retake - but beyond that, once players have encroached by a few yards, that was a retake for me no matter what.

Sure, there's an issue of different referees applying different tolerances - and as I'm sure you all know, a lot of local refs pretty much never call encroachment at a PK (understandable - calling it always causes so many problems....and then not calling it makes it harder for those that do!).

And in the HAL, we've seen attackers literally run past the ref to be level with the kicker at the time of the kick with no penalty.

The way I applied it seemed fair to me, and balanced the letter of the law with the spirit of the law. I'd rather see that.

For the scenarios you've advised, I know what I think should happen - but who knows with VAR.

And remember when even IFAB realised that VAR here was so dumb, that for the WWC they suspended the requirement to caution the keeper?

IMO, the only time VAR should be used for keeper encroachment is if the AR advises the ref the keeper encroached, the ref orders a retake and the VAR sees the keeper actually still had a foot on the line.

Trust CCM to be the first team to cop VAR on a keeper save. Like last weeks' penalty for handball coming off another defender - I bet we won't even see that scenario in the league again this season. Of course it happened to us.

Of course, I have zero confidence we'd get the same benefit at the other end.

None of this absolves GG though. NFI what he was doing there. Just an inexcusable penalty.

 

[pjennings]

It was not included in VAR originally, it is not included in the VAR elsewhere such as the EPL. The FFA included it this year and said the VAR would not be pedantic about it unless it was blatant. Birighitti came off his line by less than 6 inches (back foot) half a second before the ball was hit while Petratos varied his speed as he came in. To my mind while technically a clear breach that is not blatant it is a minimal timing issue.

Basically the AR has one job in this instance why the hell do you involve VAR.