NRL Clubs on death row: Gallop

[BrisRecky]

Serious, what of those among us who cant afford cable???

 

[serious14]

Serious, what of those among us who cant afford cable???

No idea chief, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here.  The pub??    Before I got Fox, I used to go down to CCLC all the time to watch games......

 

[BrisRecky]

fair enough 

 

[dibo]

Guys, I'm not against FTA having a delayed game or a highlights show........ but it should be the Foxtel feed and nothing more.

i don't see what problem this solves...

 

[Jesus]

I dont like fox's coverage much.
FTA can run the show fine. SBS does a great job with world cups. The people in place there would likely be lured to whoever buys the rights.

SBS coverage of WC > fox coverage of a-league IMO

 

[serious14]

Guys, I'm not against FTA having a delayed game or a highlights show........ but it should be the Foxtel feed and nothing more.

i don't see what problem this solves...

It means the A-League has a presence on free-to-air, which is more than there is now.  It also means that FTA gets _no_ control over the coverage.  I mean, look at Channel 9's effort with the second Friday Night NRL game - with all the pre and post game shite, as well as the insufferable amount of ad breaks, it runs close enough to 2.5 hour territory.  150 minutes, for an 80 minute game.  Hows about................. no.  Fox's coverage of an A-League game runs 2 hours on the dot.  It's concise, there is only ads during the pre-game show and at half time, and it's professional.  No need to change something that isn't broken.

*shudders at the thought of someone like Ray Warren commentating "that poofta sport soccer".

 

[scottmac]

If SBS had a_league Craig Foster and Les would rubbish the game every chance they get? What would that do for football in Aus.

Guys, I'm not against FTA having a delayed game or a highlights show........ but it should be the Foxtel feed and nothing more.

i don't see what problem this solves...

It solves the problem of mainstream exposure. Anyone (with a TV) can tune in to an AFL or NRL match.

 

[dibo]

It also means that FTA gets _no_ control over the coverage.  I mean, look at Channel 9's effort with the second Friday Night NRL game - with all the pre and post game shite, as well as the insufferable amount of ad breaks, it runs close enough to 2.5 hour territory.  150 minutes, for an 80 minute game.  Hows about................. no.  Fox's coverage of an A-League game runs 2 hours on the dot.  It's concise, there is only ads during the pre-game show and at half time, and it's professional.  No need to change something that isn't broken.

how about the fact that the a-league will be dictating the terms of how the broadcast happens? i mean seriously - have you been ignoring everything i've been writing?

if there's something we want in the coverage, we specify it in the broadcast agreement.

FTA will want ad breaks. we don't (in line with FIFA preference). we specify that in the agreement, there will be no ads. it's really that simple. they may be replaced with on-screen promos or whatever like on the cricket coverage, that's the cost of doing business.

Theres an important thing to note here when the AFL did their last rights deal, they were bought up for an absolute bomb by the 7/10 partnership. Fox dont hold any direct rights. 7/10 then had to negotiate with Fox a price that Fox would be willing to pay to show games. At one point when protracted negotiations looked like they might falter, SBS was tapped on the shoulder and essentially asked if they might be able to show some games. 7/10 had to offer it to somebody because the structure of the deal was such that the games had to be shown.

This is a massively important point for us, and will influence the nature of any future deal. We write a clause into the contract saying each and every game must be shown live (and presumably in keeping with FIFA requirements, with game time uninterrupted by advertisements) and thats the landscape that the networks have to operate in.

If a FTA network is interested, specify that at least one match must be shown live on FTA before content is sold on to Fox, and a viewable time (not necessarily prime time, but not at 3AM) highlights package must air on FTA.

these problems are best solved by writing a contract that doesn't have gaping holes in it, not by blindly assuming that a FTA network not only wouldn't but simply *couldn't* do what we'd be asking of them before even picking up the phone.

if we don't offer primary hold of the rights to FTA networks at all, we're essentially going to have to take to take whatever price fox deems appropriate. that's simply dumb.

back to AFL - when 9 and 10 bought the rights some years ago from under 7's nose, all the same concerns must surely have been there - you'll have barry sheene and tim webster calling matches etc... sure, eddie called matches on 9 and he was annoying, but a number of good people like jason dunstall, dennis commetti, robert walls and their ilk came over and ten's coverage was and is still fine. 

i don't want to be talking down to people and implying it's just the fear of a big scary change that's winding people up here, but i don't really understand what the problem is!

If SBS had a_league Craig Foster and Les would rubbish the game every chance they get? What would that do for football in Aus.

Guys, I'm not against FTA having a delayed game or a highlights show........ but it should be the Foxtel feed and nothing more.

i don't see what problem this solves...

It solves the problem of mainstream exposure. Anyone (with a TV) can tune in to an AFL or NRL match.

you're missing the point too -

1) anybody who pays a decent amount for the rights is going to find it in their best interests to talk it up. there's bugger all point in forking over tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for the right to a product and then bagging the shit out of it.

...and the corollary 1a) anybody who really wants the rights to a product and can't afford to pay for it should be viewed with some scepticism if they start bagging the shit out of it.

2) re-read my posts - it's obviously not the HAL being on FTA networks that i have a problem with, rather why on earth it would *not* be offered to FTA networks. i was commenting on the 'but it should be the Foxtel feed and nothing more' bit.

 

[serious14]

Dibo - read closely mate, I have _no_ issue with the A-League being on FTA.  None at all.  In fact, I'm encouraging it.  What I'm worried about is 'quality control'.  The AFL coverage on 7 is rife with hyperbole, the NRL coverage on 9 thinks it's the greatest thing in the history of the universe...... I'd hate to see that happen to the A-League.  Simon Hill is the very epitome of professionalism, and whilst Harper is a bit of a knob, he's nothing compared to Bruce "Special" McAvaney and Ray Warren.

What I'm also worried about is ensuring that the game gets the right kind of exposure.  I'm talking 9pm on Sunday evenings, 8pm on Saturday's, that kind of thing.  We cannot afford to under evaluate ourselves.  This is the biggest game in the world we're talking about, and if the FTA networks in this country are not prepared to play ball on _OUR_ court, then f*ck them.  They can feed off the scraps.  I mean, we're shown on Chinese and Japanese television, Setanta in Britain, Fox Soccer Channel in America.  We've got that many sponsors in Asia ready and waiting to pump money into Australian Football it's not funny.  And we've got home grown sponsors willing to do the same thing.  They _know_ that the only way for football to go now is up.  We're here to stay this time, we're not going anywhere.

I just refuse to accept that we should pander to the demands of Channels 7, 9, 10, whoever really......  BY ALL MEANS OFFER REPLAYS AND HIGHLIGHTS AND ALL THAT TO FREE TO AIR, BUT IN NO WAY SHOULD WE GIVE UP OUR EXCLUSIVITY TO THEM.

Again Dibo, I've nothing against the games being on FTA.  But on our terms.  Pay TV subscription is skyrocketing as is, FTA being the only place to access your sport is an outdated concept.

 

[dibo]

i give up - you've missed my point completely and this is going around in circles.

 

[serious14]

i give up - you've missed my point completely and this is going around in circles.

Well, I think you missed mine since I posted about this first, but okay.  We'll discuss in person next time. 

 

[dibo]

alright - let's get a bit zen.

tell me what my argument is?

unless i'm being dim, your argument is that FTA networks shouldn't have exclusive rights to broadcast the a-league because they treat football badly and will overhype it commercialise the f**k out of it (citing nine's NRL coverage as a prime example).

consequently, you argue that foxtel should retain rights and the FTA networks should have to take a feed from them.

 

[FFC Mariner]

and preface every broadcast with a short statement along the lines of "we used to ignore this sport and concentrate on our own stupid prejudices. We now recognise the error of our ways and that we have held back the game in this country for 30 years. We are just assholes"

Or similar

 

[serious14]

alright - let's get a bit zen.

tell me what my argument is?

unless i'm being dim, your argument is that FTA networks shouldn't have exclusive rights to broadcast the a-league because they treat football badly and will overhype it commercialise the f**k out of it (citing nine's NRL coverage as a prime example).

consequently, you argue that foxtel should retain rights and the FTA networks should have to take a feed from them.

That is exactly my argument - also remember the part where I declared my personal belief that FTA is becoming less and less important in the modern corporate world, and that the A-League belonging exclusively to FTA would be a disaster, as well as hypocritical of the FTA network involved (unless it's SBS).

As far as I'm aware, your argument is that you believe that leaving out FTA would be restricting a majority of people from seeing the A-League.  I'm sure there's something else, but hey, you forgot a bit of my argument as well. 

Also, I just don't think there's that much money left to be mined from FTA - say 10 and 7 renew their AFL deal for a similar amount next time around, and 9 continues on with their bogan ball and cricket coverage similar to the way they are now............ where are the _big bucks_ for football going to come from??  These networks only have so much $'s to throw around.  And hey, why are we keeping to _just_ the A-League??  Odds are Fox will want to keep their EPL coverage, what if they construct an all inclusive deal for 'Football'.  There's been rumours going around for a while now of a Fox Football (Soccer) Channel - owning the A-League rights would go a long way to getting a lot of people watching that locally.

I just think Pay TV wants it more, it's a better fit in that model, and any FTA football should be a sold on package by Foxtel.  But I digress, in person we shall discuss.

 

[swarey]

A-League a real threat, concedes Doust
BY TIM BARROW
27/05/2008 9:49:00 PM

http://illawarra.yourguide.com.au/news/local/sport/rugby-league/aleague-a-real-threat-concedes-doust/777893.aspx

St George Illawarra chief executive Peter Doust believes the NRL needs to do all it can to avoid Wollongong becoming a haven for the A-League.

The South Coast has emerged as a leading contender for entry into the A-League for the 2009-2010 season, with the support of Socceroos superstar Tim Cahill.

The development comes as NRL club St George Illawarra fights for its long-term survival in Wollongong under the weight of poker machine taxes and the lack of other major backing.

Doust said the club and the NRL needed to do everything possible to protect the Illawarra's rugby league heritage against the A-League's threat of dominating the Wollongong market.

"A line would be able to be taken about the Central Coast where (rugby league) hasn't been able to position itself," he said.

The Mariners franchise has been wildly successful on the Central Coast since the establishment of the A-League and the NRL's decision to take its new club to the Gold Coast instead of Gosford.

"The A-League are going from strength to strength and it's another part of the considerations," Doust said. "We don't want to see elite rugby league not played in Wollongong. There also needs to be an investment in junior rugby league (in the region)."

While in Sydney the NRL is facing a war with AFL, which is looking to establish a second team in western Sydney by 2012, in Wollongong the battle is with soccer, which has a large following in the Illawarra and South Coast regions.

The St George Illawarra club is struggling financially, with the St George Leagues Club's grant to the football club being slashed by $2 million and the Steelers Club still owing almost $2 million of an $8 million loan.

NRL clubs are hamstrung because the big financial support comes from leagues clubs, which are struggling because of the impact of smoking regulations and poker machine taxes.

In contrast, A-League clubs are attracting the financial clout of private investment, while Cahill is looking to establish a development academy for the Illawarra and South Coast region.

 

[FFC Mariner]

"A line would be able to be taken about the Central Coast where (rugby league) hasn't been able to position itself," he said.

Hasnt??? You mean wouldnt.

The NRL only had to prop up the Bears for 1 season and there would have been no CCM - Gallop folded under pressure from Manly and the Knights.

 

[Arabmariner]

"A line would be able to be taken about the Central Coast where (rugby league) hasn't been able to position itself," he said.

Hasnt??? You mean wouldnt.

The NRL only had to prop up the Bears for 1 season and there would have been no CCM - Gallop folded under pressure from Manly and the Knights.

Thats right and now they,re f***ed.
Most of us wouldn,t have travelled to follow another a-league team if CCM hadn,t started up.A fair percentage of us probably wouldn,t even have followed the a-league at all.
Gallop is a pillock who gift wrapped the Central coast and handed it to us on a platter.And now there,s no going back.
Thanks Gallop! 

 

[dibo]

You know, rugby league would do well to get a little creative.

Theyre not going to be up there with the AFL - that's clear enough. The AFL has a lot more money, a lot more clout than the NRL can ever come to grips with.

What the NRL has (and nobody can deny it) is a longstanding place in the hearts and minds of many of the people in NSW and Qld. there is a basic level of support there that will be there for a long time yet. Some of that is fractured or torn with the treatment that much loved clubs have had over the years (the bears most of all, no matter the bleating from the bunnies) but in large part it's still there. A reported three million people a season go through the gates at NRL games each year.

Look at their best weeks - the ones with the heritage rounds, the suburban grounds, the old names and the tradition of the game. there is no question that there are super clubs like Brisbane, but there used to be super clubs like St. George, manly, the bulldogs and eels too. They operated on a different plane back then, and were insulated from the megabucks of rugby union and the UK super league.

I have a feeling that what the NRL needs to do now isn't so much to try to ramp up the commercialism, chase the big stadiums and the big crowds with big bucks to big names, I think they need to reduce costs and go back to basics. They need to get back to a point where crowds of 13k across the league are sustainable, because that's [EDIT - where their long term average is... or thereabouts.]

Split the merged clubs, bring teams back to their home grounds, and go for the packed hill rather than the empty bowls. As Denis Fitzgerald is quoted in the Tele today, they probably need to drop the salary cap. Some of the money going around now is silly money, and it's either going to kill clubs or force moves and restructures. This is also a salutary warning to the a-league: push the dollars too fast and you die.

If you were to break up the mergers, you'd have basically have four more clubs playing in their traditional homes (given that between Kogarah, Campbelltown, Wollongong and Leichhardt there are only 12 games (or one season's worth) of home games - Kogarahs not getting any because of redevelopment work on the western grandstand.

To get really creative - put the bears back in Gosford (where I don't doubt they would have been very successful as the central coast bears given half a chance) and then put one more club in Toowoomba (where there is massive rugby league support). 20 clubs - go to 2 divisions. Each club would have something to play for all the way through.

That 4.1 million salary cap for 16 clubs could be split down to 3.28 million for 20 clubs. You might stagger the first and second division cash a little. There would be more games for Fox to show midweek on delay, possibly the opportunity to schedule more games at 3pm Sunday.

But what youd then have is a slightly broader footprint, closer to the people and closer to what people actually like about the game. The game is bigger than in the 60s and 70s, but the things that people liked then and grew up on are the things I think they yearn for now.

But I digress, in person we shall discuss.

you going tonight?

 

[FFC Mariner]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh Dibo - dont give them ideas that are sensible and would probably work

 

[Sean]

A-League a real threat, concedes Doust
BY TIM BARROW
27/05/2008 9:49:00 PM
St George Illawarra chief executive Peter Doust believes the NRL needs to do all it can to avoid Wollongong becoming a haven for the A-League.

The South Coast has emerged as a leading contender for entry into the A-League for the 2009-2010 season, with the support of Socceroos superstar Tim Cahill.

The development comes as NRL club St George Illawarra fights for its long-term survival in Wollongong under the weight of poker machine taxes and the lack of other major backing.

Doust said the club and the NRL needed to do everything possible to protect the Illawarra's rugby league heritage against the A-League's threat of dominating the Wollongong market.

"A line would be able to be taken about the Central Coast where (rugby league) hasn't been able to position itself," he said.

The Mariners franchise has been wildly successful on the Central Coast since the establishment of the A-League and the NRL's decision to take its new club to the Gold Coast instead of Gosford.

"The A-League are going from strength to strength and it's another part of the considerations," Doust said. "We don't want to see elite rugby league not played in Wollongong. There also needs to be an investment in junior rugby league (in the region)."

While in Sydney the NRL is facing a war with AFL, which is looking to establish a second team in western Sydney by 2012, in Wollongong the battle is with soccer, which has a large following in the Illawarra and South Coast regions.

The St George Illawarra club is struggling financially, with the St George Leagues Club's grant to the football club being slashed by $2 million and the Steelers Club still owing almost $2 million of an $8 million loan.

NRL clubs are hamstrung because the big financial support comes from leagues clubs, which are struggling because of the impact of smoking regulations and poker machine taxes.

In contrast, A-League clubs are attracting the financial clout of private investment, while Cahill is looking to establish a development academy for the Illawarra and South Coast region.