More corporate twaddle about Sheff Utd

[clarence]

As I have said before don't hold you breath for things to happen.  SUFC has always being really good at "having plans" or "having a vision" but not so good on the excecution and delivery.  We have finally seen a couple of decent players in Kyle Walker and Kyle Naughton come through the SUFC academy which in itself was built several years behind schedule after great fanfare when first announced although it will be interesting to see how long it is before we cash in and sell them off (alhough to be fair they do look like they should be playing in the premiership).

There have been plans for a Hotel/Casio or some sort of development at Bramhall Lanes as far back as I can remember and although the ground has improved significantly it has come to nothing.

We always seem to have Chairman who think they are Abromavich and talk like him when it comes to investment in the team but always ends in tears and quite often jail for the chairman as it turns out they are crooks!

We were promised big $ from sponsorships from China which is why we bought a team there, we appear to still be waiting.


McCabe has been there a long time now and the club probably has more stability than previously but it certainly doesn't have the $$ to invest and sells off it's best assets regularly - selling Beattie as Christmas was a prime example and very similar to the Mariners selling Jedinak.  We should have got automatic promotion but the goals dried up as we replaced him with a number of substandard players.

I'd like to be more optimistic but having suffered for 30 years as a Blade I am far too realistic now.

Some issues there to keep in mind about the Mariners "Centre of Football Excellence" as the modus operandi appears similar. Thanx. I'll be patient but regular news on things moving forward or why things may be stalled would instil confidence in people looking at this Mariners project with interest.

 

[goingtoadisco]

Just as a note, i remember hearing from someone at the Mariners that the relationship between the clubs was not based on players transfers but more the off field financial/way the clubs are run side of things.

I think there are probably things that the mariners are doing now that they have learnt from SU that we just cant see.

(sorry about the english, just wrote a 1800 word essay my brain is fried)

 

[FFC Mariner]

Sacko?

 

[marinerbhoy]

Not dismissing this contribution (when it happens). It's absolutely massive and sounds world class that will set us up for life. Would like to see Mr Gorman mention it every now and again though and give us some progress.

I should have stated that my comments were player related. Haven't see anything to suggest we have gained anything in that respect.

No need for the sarcasm either. You can make your point without it.

Agree and given the TG (Tuggerah Complex) is so important a up date on what is going on is overdue..

A side issue the Nix management comment on the fans forum and fans can ask questions of management ... there is a degree of control by the mods to keep the questions above why is player X being paid or my pie was cold last night.. It works very well .. I wonder if our management would ever consider the same.

lawrie used to post squad lists on the old spirit fans forum a day before the match. but the whole discourse between club and fans on the foum didn't end to well.

 

[Arabmariner]

I was thinking the same thing Arab (ever since I saw Arabtrust when I was researching the origins of your profile name...lol).

How much do members pay and apart from access to management via the forum (which is a great idea) what are the benefits (apart from a sense of well being)?

Arabtrust annual fee is 15 quid ($30.00 approx)

I could go into a long and boring (to some ) post about what they do but their main objectives are:

Influence:to influence the decision making of the club.

Ownership:to acquire a collective shareholding in the club.

Representation:to secure supporters representation on the board.

They're involved in sponsorship of the youth teams etc and are sponsors of "Arabzone" which is an exclusive members only website run by Dundee Utd media (50 quid a year...$100.00) but well worth it to a fan of the club.This is where they run the question and answer sessions with management as well as heaps of other stuff.

Explained in more detail here if you're interested.......

http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=137

I'm not sure how this sort of thing would work with the "franchise" type  set up we have here or whether we would have sufficient hardcore interest anyway.Utd are a small club but have a 100 year history behind them.We don't yet have adult supporters who grew up following CCM.A lot of our support is still very "casual".

But I do think long term something like this would be good for both the club and supporters.

Thoughts ?

 

[clarence]

A positive thing to consider about the way the Mariners are set up and the A-League in general, is that it is a franchise based League and the risks of running the club are totally the responsibility of the owners of that franchise.

If we, as fans, end up getting a shareholding into the club and they run into financial difficulties we'd be asked, like other shareholders, to pony up for extra money, and/or help the club solve their situation or even vote to sell the club or wind it up.

Compared to clubs like Dundee, we are very new and I am comfortable that the club's owners are assuming all the risk and the only thing I could lose is a season ticket if they went into administration.

Over time, the FFA may think of getting some supporters' groups more involved with the A-League clubs, but to date, the supporters' groups of each A-League club have been kept very much at arms' length from the clubs themselves. If there is an investment into an A-League by a supporters' group it tends to muddy those waters.

Indeed, it is this philosophy of keeping fans at arms length and feeding us info as they please rather than properly getting us involved, that leads to the scepticism and critique that I have made known in my past posts and sometimes criticised by others on this forum for being negative.

My view is: OK you want to run the show, and you only want to tell us what you want us to hear about, don't come crying 'harsh comments' if what we see and hear is not acceptable to us as football fans.

For example, the club may have had some very valid reasons for running the ACL campaign as they did, but they did not communicate that to the fans if so, and they deserved the brickbats that were thrown at them.

Putting out corporate twaddle may impress some people, but an old manager of mine used to say that such cliched riddled blurbs like that were merely someone trying to impress everyone by using English words in different ways to what they are usually used, in order to make the announcement seem intelligent or important, when it usually was neither.

As I said, I'll be patient, but actions speak a thousand words.

 

[daddy cool]

"Putting out corporate twaddle may impress some people, but an old manager of mine used to say that such cliched riddled blurbs like that were merely someone trying to impress everyone by using English words in different ways to what they are usually used, in order to make the announcement seem intelligent or important, when it usually was neither."

Very well put the general public are a bit more savy these days .

 

[Ursus]

Clarence,
If you wish to buy a share of the club franchise I am sure you will be welcomed.

 

[Ursus]

Or if you think a supporters group should have a say. Organise a whip around to buy a share that way. There seems to be many here who know how to run a club better than our present management.

 

[Ursus]

And when you do have a share would you like some of the people here having a say in how your investment is run.

 

[Ursus]

Remember after season 5. No FFA guarantees.

 

[tuftman]

4 consecutive posts, I'm impressed

 

[clarence]

4 consecutive posts, I'm impressed

So am I! (So impressed I'll bother replying) 

As I've said Ursus, I am comfortable with those running the club actually doing so at this early stage of the club's history. They are carrying the risk. Football clubs in Australia have run into problems in the past and this A-League has not been without failures either.

As I've also said, my risk is only the cost of the season ticket, but that doesn't mean I am content to see the club meander around mid field on the ladder with ineffective players all the time, I want an improvement. And I am prepared to say as such.

The Mariners have attached themselves to the community and I can see the pride in the club when their stocks are high, within the Coast Community. Likewise, if they end up also rans, that pride goes down. In good times, we proudly call ourselves Coasties, and strive to work out ways to live AND work here, on bad days, we are just a supplementary workforce for Sydney and Newcastle and our society's stats are squeezed up or down the Coast as the bureaucrats see fit.

This area deserves better for the great football talent we have here. You really should take a look at Pluim and other suburban grounds to see what's on offer with youngsters really trying to emulate what the Mariners do and the way Football has lifted in this area because of the A-League, Ursus. A whole generation of young players have been inspired by the A-League and the Mariners, and in return the Mariners give back, what? Well, the ACL could have been a great way to showcase the area to not only the rest of Australia, but Asia too, but they blew it, big time.

IF (a bloody big 'if', but I'm talking hypothetically here ) I ever had the money to consider investing in a Football club, Lyall would be high on my list of people to call, believe me. As we'd be talking in the millions here that is very VERY unlikely to happen these days unless I win a huge amount on Lotto or the like. But yes, Ursus I'd love to have some sort of investment of a sizeable nature in the Mariners.

About your season 5 - no guarantees, comment. I raised the issue of relocation ages ago and I think it was people like you who were saying "oh no couldn't/wouldn't happen" , so I am very aware of the fact that after season 5 things change and it becomes more competitive to stay in the A-League. If you didn't make that sort of comment then I apologise for the inference. But the point there is Ursus, that the club has not made known it's reasons for why they ran a very uninspiring ACL campaign. If you read my above post very carefully, I said:

For example, the club may have had some very valid reasons for running the ACL campaign as they did, but they did not communicate that to the fans if so, and they deserved the brickbats that were thrown at them.

So, I was offering up the likelihood of there being reasons for such a poor recruitment for the ACL, based on the inference of business prudence, but also saying that if they keep things secret they'll end up getting negative comments.

If I had an investment in the Mariners, and put my money where my mouth is, I'd stay around to hear the crowd's comments too. I notice that Lyall and McKay do that a fair bit, btw. They don't lock themselves up in the Chairman's Lounge too much when games are on at Bluetongue. I probably wouldn't like some of the comments, that's true, but I'd appreciate the candour of some of the comments here, and judging by what Lyall said publicly, he does too. We can't always be "Mariners, clap clap clap" type of supporters.

The A-League clubs and the FFA seem to keep the supporters' clubs at a distance. My response was to Arabmariner's contrary comments about the workings of Dundee United, what's the problem there Ursus? I noted the downside of this detachment, being that folks end up saying "OK I can only react on what I see if you tell us nothing, don't be surprised if there's some negativity"

Dundee's supporters seemed to have mobilised themselves to have a say in the business of the club, and I guess there's other clubs around the world who have supporters group being syndicated and investing in the club they love. Not a bad concept, but as I said, the A-League clubs ' structure is one of franchise holding and those that put up the initial bid for the licence have the board. I am not sure if an A-League club would welcome an investment from their supporters' group at this stage, but if you are curious enough, ask Lyall or PT the question next time you see them.

As for whether any here would want to run the club or, as you state 'seems to be many here who know how to run a club better than our present management', well, maybe there are some people running a business already who'd be quite capable of running it?

Was impressed the other day reading one of our regular posters' academic CV in economics when he replied to Dibo's boast of doing his Masters, and there seems to be others running businesses already.

Quite a diverse bunch of people here Ursus, and by making that comment in a slurred way, tends to get up other people's noses rather than mine.

I have my own chunk of capitalistic endeavour to concern myself with, and it is doing OK, and similar sarcastic comments from folks like you, tends to be water off a duck's back to me. If there are people who think they can run the club why does it bother you that much anyway Ursus, should only annoy the Board members.

At least we have some people who have had some real world  experiences and who are prepared to say something is bollocks when they think it is so.

Get the fishing rod out Ursus, the fish are calling. Oh, and if you see Nik Mrdja out on the water, could you tell the oxygen thief to get back to training..... ;D

 

[Arabmariner]

Good post Clarence.

It's worth noting that the DUFC example that I used was not set up by a bunch of pissed off fans looking to run the club.In fact it was the ex chairman's idea and actively encouraged by him.The fans have a properly elected board member who is shall we say , properly qualified to be there, if that makes sense.The fans therefore have a say in the running of the club without any rebelious element to it.

Obviously living here I don't have any active part in running "arabtrust" I just pay my dosh every year for the love of the club and a warm fuzzy feeling.I know guy's who basically spend their whole weekend involved in the various activities they run.

We're a long way from having something like that here but if that day ever came I'd pay my dosh here too.........too dumb to be the elected member though.......you'll need to find someone else for that!

 

[Teddy Bear]

Good post Clarence.

It's worth noting that the DUFC example that I used was not set up by a bunch of pissed off fans looking to run the club.In fact it was the ex chairman's idea and actively encouraged by him.The fans have a properly elected board member who is shall we say is, properly qualified to be there, if that makes sense.The fans therefore have a say in the running of the club without any rebelious element to it.

Obviously living here I don't have any active part in running "arabtrust" I just pay my dosh every year for the love of the club and a warm fuzzy feeling.I know guy's who basically spend their whole weekend involved in the various activities they run.

We're a long way from having something like that here but if that day ever came I'd pay my dosh here too.........too dumb to be the elected member though.......you'll need to find someone else for that!

The thing is Arab unlike Dundee Utd supporters, Mariners supporters are not content with mediocrity. If the Mariners finished middle of the table year after year and not coming close to winning anything there would ultimately be a high level of restlessness.  And the answer to your next question is NO, mediocrity is not something mariners fans would ever get used to 

 

[FFC Mariner]

Sorry TB, I think whilst all supporters want their team to be successful all of the time, for 99% of all the clubs in any league, that simply wont happen due to finances/location etc etc and we will have to get used to it.

I want my club to be competitive,well run and the players to take pride in wearing the shirt. If we win anything, fantastic, but its not a right and must never be a condition of support.

Our ACL campaign was "Newcastle Unitedesque" at best - and not what we have become used to - hence the unease. It wasnt the results it was the recruitment,preparation,tactics etc that were scary. If they werent interested, dont enter. If they thought they had got their preparations right, wasnt that ever a learning opportunity?

We all learn from making mistakes, the quality of a management team is its ability to admit it, learn from it and move on. We dont know if they have or havent - the spin and PR statements imply denial. I'm sure thats not true but be open and honest doesnt hurt.

The ultimate level of community engagement is to allow the public to have a small stake in the club (for which they pay). Not control or even influence but a sense of ownership = belonging.

Could I run the club better than the people currently doing it? Probably not. Could a small fans trust owning a little bit of the club engage the incredibly diverse skills of some the people who I know, yes absolutely.

 

[Arabmariner]

Good post Clarence.

It's worth noting that the DUFC example that I used was not set up by a bunch of pissed off fans looking to run the club.In fact it was the ex chairman's idea and actively encouraged by him.The fans have a properly elected board member who is shall we say is, properly qualified to be there, if that makes sense.The fans therefore have a say in the running of the club without any rebelious element to it.

Obviously living here I don't have any active part in running "arabtrust" I just pay my dosh every year for the love of the club and a warm fuzzy feeling.I know guy's who basically spend their whole weekend involved in the various activities they run.

We're a long way from having something like that here but if that day ever came I'd pay my dosh here too.........too dumb to be the elected member though.......you'll need to find someone else for that!

The thing is Arab unlike Dundee Utd supporters, Mariners supporters are not content with mediocrity. If the Mariners finished middle of the table year after year and not coming close to winning anything there would ultimately be a high level of restlessness.  And the answer to your next question is NO, mediocrity is not something mariners fans would ever get used to 

If I answered that properly TB it would take me way off on another tangent and be in the wrong thread.What I will say is if you look into the background to Eddie Thompson becoming chairman you'll actually find that after the successes of the 80's and early 90's the fans wouldn't accept the mediocrity on the pitch and mismanagement off it which culminated in relegation in '95 and serious financial problems.

Anyway I know you're just fishing........and you've just got yer bite!!

I've just gone and retrieved the local rag from the bin so I could read Lyall's interview.It's a bit of a nothing interview really.Not exactly questions that would have Lyall squirming in his chair.

And this....."After an exhaustive campaign there is such a short turnaround between seasons, so is there a danger of player burnout?"...........WTF???

I think we've just found Wilko's "ghost" writer !

 

[Sacko]

Sacko?

Perhaps the proof that the off field knowledge has been passed on by Mc**** to the CCM Management will be when they try and distract the fans that the club has had a shite season by passing the blame on to somebody else. I therefore expect the number 1 item from the brain storming to be that CCM will now sue Sydney FC for $300bn for exceeding the salary cap in season 1, even though the FFA have already dealt with the matter! 

 

[Arabmariner]

Sacko?

Perhaps the proof that the off field knowledge has been passed on by Mc**** to the CCM Management will be when they try and distract the fans that the club has had a shite season by passing the blame on to somebody else. I therefore expect the number 1 item from the brain storming to be that CCM will now sue Sydney FC for $300bn for exceeding the salary cap in season 1, even though the FFA have already dealt with the matter! 

ROFL

 

[Wombat]

Great posts Clarence and Fulham.

I want the Mariners to be in the mix at the end of the year, however, if we don't make it I don't care, as long as we are trying and are competetive.
I used to follow Leeds all over when we were in the old Second div (against shit clubs like Fulham, Grimsby etc) and we weren't great but we always put in and tried to play Footy.

The problem last season was that we hardly played any decent Football ALL year and then the ACL campaign became a farce. There was no personal or collective pride and that was hard to take.

I think it was the rapid decline into absolute dross that was so galling for most people.

5.0 home losses are not acceptable but those that know a bit about Football could see it coming. Thankfully I think it was a painful lesson to management and the club in general and I no longer have the feeling of dread about the upcoming season.