Mariners vs Wellington at NSO - Game Talk

[Atomic]

any thought's on who we should play i think either wanderers or sfc

You've got rocks in your head if you think we should play WSW or SFC at NSO. The loyal supporters of the CENTRAL COAST Mariners deserve to be shown respect and have these games played in Gosford.

My vote is for Wellington or Heart.

 

[Atomic]

incase u forgot this is the SPIRITual home of the club the mariners were born from the old northern spirit just ask arnie,mossey,lawrie & hutcho

This is probably an emotive issue for the < 5% of people that follow CCM that once passionately supported NS, but here's my opinion:


IF it is our "spiritual" home, why has it taken the club 8 seasons to acknowledge it? I'll tell you why... because it's not our spiritual home. Arnie and Mossey have nothing to do with any link between NS and CCM. There involvement in both clubs is coincidental... and as for Hutch, well he is a professional footballer and would've taken any gig that was on offer. Lawrie is a different story, but what were his options? Nil.


If you want to find out what the link between NS and CCM really is, ask John Singleton. He was the one that spunked up the money to get us into the A-league in the early stages. His interest in NS? Zero.

Our spiritual home is Grahame Park, Gosford. I think moving any home game to NSO is going to be disastrous. Given that the "community round" isn't a home game per se, I just hope that there isn't any fall out from fans thinking that they're trying to move the club, or dilute the Mariners presence on the Coast.

 

[true believer]

Wow, quality atomic. a few of us nostalgics needed slapping into line.
great post

 

[Blackadder]

Most likely the Heart or Nix as the opponent IMHO, I guess all will be revealed on Wednesday when the draw is due to be released.
As for daring to take a home game "away" from the Mariners, at least it is to somewhere with a connection to the development of the Mariners, after all if Northern Spirit hadnt folded and the license passed from Antonio Gillesie (sp?) to Lyall Gorman the birth of the Mariners made not of happend at all. Further more it is area they already have some connection to through the various associations.
But of course how dare they try to grow in areas outside the Central Coast.

 

[sydmariner]

. wellington

perth glory would also be good as they were ex-nsl & played there alot

 

[sydmariner]

Most likely the Heart or Nix as the opponent IMHO, I guess all will be revealed on Wednesday when the draw is due to be released.
As for daring to take a home game "away" from the Mariners, at least it is to somewhere with a connection to the development of the Mariners, after all if Northern Spirit hadnt folded and the license passed from Antonio Gillesie (sp?) to Lyall Gorman the birth of the Mariners made not of happend at all. Further more it is area they already have some connection to through the various associations.
But of course how dare they try to grow in areas outside the Central Coast.

i'm not from the coast but i was an ex spirit fan whitch is why i support ccm

 

[Blackadder]

Likewise,in the disputed territory (ie Hornsby Shire) it was a no brainer for me to support the Mariners after Northern Spirit FC folded, also know of others in this position.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

The club is clearly trying to strengthening themselves within the Northern Sydney region. Glad to see them being proactive. We need this market segment I think, and with Wanderers strong entry, it's a pretty critical time to secure allegiances and I think it would be downright stupid for the club not to be putting some work into it. A damn site better than the ACT or Tassie. We can easily go watch, and this may actually do the club some greater good.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

This is probably an emotive issue for the < 5% of people that follow CCM that once passionately supported NS, but here's my opinion:


IF it is our "spiritual" home, why has it taken the club 8 seasons to acknowledge it? I'll tell you why... because it's not our spiritual home. Arnie and Mossey have nothing to do with any link between NS and CCM. There involvement in both clubs is coincidental... and as for Hutch, well he is a professional footballer and would've taken any gig that was on offer. Lawrie is a different story, but what were his options? Nil.


If you want to find out what the link between NS and CCM really is, ask John Singleton. He was the one that spunked up the money to get us into the A-league in the early stages. His interest in NS? Zero.

Our spiritual home is Grahame Park, Gosford. I think moving any home game to NSO is going to be disastrous. Given that the "community round" isn't a home game per se, I just hope that there isn't any fall out from fans thinking that they're trying to move the club, or dilute the Mariners presence on the Coast.

I am curious as to where you get the figure of less than 5%. Sounds like an Alan Jones(I don't deal in facts just opinions) figure. As for John Singleton investing the money, he put in some to ensure his stadium investment but most came from elswhere.

As to the link, without Spirit there would be no Mariners. Simple. And without he support from the north of Sydney home crowds would be a lot lower.

The club has always acknowledged the link with the first trial game each season and the first game ever being played against Gladesville Spirit at Christie Park.

It was not just Lawrie and Hutch who had the connection, but also Fergie, Tobin, Wilko, Petrie, Sully, Kwassie and Matty Osman.

Arnie has a very strong Spirit connection being initial captain and coach and also investing heavily in the initial set up.

Support for the Central Coast is very strong in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney,especially in the Gladesville-Hornsby Association, this support should be acknowledged and embraced.If the support from this area is allowed to dwindle in future it will be disastrous.

The future survival of the club is directly linked to its supporter base, it is essential that the link with Sydney's north is maintained and in any way possible strengthened.

The club has successfully tapped the Central Coast for support for 8 years and has come up with a rusted on maybe 4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters.

Long term this is not enough. Without double that amount games will be played at a loss, sponsorships will be extremely difficult to attract and it will be impossible to get investors willing to part with their money.

If you want confirmation look at the past 8 years. The team has been successful on the park but the club has hung on only by the skin of its teeth. What odds do you give for our survival if we have three poor seasons in a row.

The game at North Sydney Oval is obviously Charlesworth/FFA testing the water.

For the future of the Mariners I hope it is successful.

 

[sydmariner]

The club is clearly trying to strengthening themselves within Northern Sydney region. Glad to see them being proactive. We need this market segment I think, and with Wanderers strong entry, it's a pretty critical time to secure allegiances and I think it would be downright stupid for the club not to be putting some work into it. A damn site better than the ACT or Tassie. We can eaily go watch, and this may actually do the club some greater good.

yes we played 2 games in canberra & the crowds were crap evan though canberra united played a w-league match b4 1 of the main game

 

[Jesus]

Would prefer it be played in canberra personally, was great fun last time down there

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I am curious as to where you get the figure of less than 5%. Sounds like an Alan Jones(I don't deal in facts just opinions) figure. As for John Singleton investing the money, he put in some to ensure his stadium investment but most came from elswhere.

As to the link, without Spirit there would be no Mariners. Simple. And without he support from the north of Sydney home crowds would be a lot lower.

The club has always acknowledged the link with the first trial game each season and the first game ever being played against Gladesville Spirit at Christie Park.

It was not just Lawrie and Hutch who had the connection, but also Fergie, Tobin, Wilko, Petrie, Sully, Kwassie and Matty Osman.

Arnie has a very strong Spirit connection being initial captain and coach and also investing heavily in the initial set up.

Support for the Central Coast is very strong in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney,especially in the Gladesville-Hornsby Association, this support should be acknowledged and embraced.If the support from this area is allowed to dwindle in future it will be disastrous.

The future survival of the club is directly linked to its supporter base, it is essential that the link with Sydney's north is maintained and in any way possible strengthened.

The club has successfully tapped the Central Coast for support for 8 years and has come up with a rusted on maybe 4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters.

Long term this is not enough. Without double that amount games will be played at a loss, sponsorships will be extremely difficult to attract and it will be impossible to get investors willing to part with their money.

If you want confirmation look at the past 8 years. The team has been successful on the park but the club has hung on only by the skin of its teeth. What odds do you give for our survival if we have three poor seasons in a row.

The game at North Sydney Oval is obviously Charlesworth/FFA testing the water.

For the future of the Mariners I hope it is successful.

Great post.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Would prefer it be played in Canberra personally, was great fun last time down there

I've watched two CCM games in Canberra. Was fun. Though bloody cold. You must be harder than me.
But I think in this instance the value of playing in North Sydney outstrips other concerns.

 

[midfielder]

I am curious as to where you get the figure of less than 5%. Sounds like an Alan Jones(I don't deal in facts just opinions) figure. As for John Singleton investing the money, he put in some to ensure his stadium investment but most came from elswhere.

As to the link, without Spirit there would be no Mariners. Simple. And without he support from the north of Sydney home crowds would be a lot lower.

The club has always acknowledged the link with the first trial game each season and the first game ever being played against Gladesville Spirit at Christie Park.

It was not just Lawrie and Hutch who had the connection, but also Fergie, Tobin, Wilko, Petrie, Sully, Kwassie and Matty Osman.

Arnie has a very strong Spirit connection being initial captain and coach and also investing heavily in the initial set up.

Support for the Central Coast is very strong in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney,especially in the Gladesville-Hornsby Association, this support should be acknowledged and embraced.If the support from this area is allowed to dwindle in future it will be disastrous.

The future survival of the club is directly linked to its supporter base, it is essential that the link with Sydney's north is maintained and in any way possible strengthened.

The club has successfully tapped the Central Coast for support for 8 years and has come up with a rusted on maybe 4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters.

Long term this is not enough. Without double that amount games will be played at a loss, sponsorships will be extremely difficult to attract and it will be impossible to get investors willing to part with their money.

If you want confirmation look at the past 8 years. The team has been successful on the park but the club has hung on only by the skin of its teeth. What odds do you give for our survival if we have three poor seasons in a row.

The game at North Sydney Oval is obviously Charlesworth/FFA testing the water.

For the future of the Mariners I hope it is successful.

Gotta agree very hard to determine the % of NS fans .. but I among a group of 10 who still come all followed from NS..

My gut feel is we have a core support of about 8K of which 25 % [my guess are former NS folk] most walk ups are CC...

But wish to add my voice to the early days as the club was bedded down without the NS fans following to the CC the club would not have survived ..

So it is our spiritual home ...

Just on Singo he came in in after Hal 1 when SFC where after LM and he kicked in to keeping LM and then put more money in... Singo for yonks wanted a RL team and while today he is one of our biggest supporters I was among many who tho the saving of us by Singo in Hal 2 had as much to do with giving his stadiums a game and heaping pressure on the NRL to relocate a team here ... always remember he had a offer of 7.5 million plus extra funds each for a RL team.. if we had that money we would never have had the troubles we have had... having said that I am still very grateful he has helps us.

 

[Blackadder]

Great post.

I am curious as to where you get the figure of less than 5%. Sounds like an Alan Jones(I don't deal in facts just opinions) figure. As for John Singleton investing the money, he put in some to ensure his stadium investment but most came from elswhere.

As to the link, without Spirit there would be no Mariners. Simple. And without he support from the north of Sydney home crowds would be a lot lower.

The club has always acknowledged the link with the first trial game each season and the first game ever being played against Gladesville Spirit at Christie Park.

It was not just Lawrie and Hutch who had the connection, but also Fergie, Tobin, Wilko, Petrie, Sully, Kwassie and Matty Osman.

Arnie has a very strong Spirit connection being initial captain and coach and also investing heavily in the initial set up.

Support for the Central Coast is very strong in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney,especially in the Gladesville-Hornsby Association, this support should be acknowledged and embraced.If the support from this area is allowed to dwindle in future it will be disastrous.

The future survival of the club is directly linked to its supporter base, it is essential that the link with Sydney's north is maintained and in any way possible strengthened.

The club has successfully tapped the Central Coast for support for 8 years and has come up with a rusted on maybe 4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters.

Long term this is not enough. Without double that amount games will be played at a loss, sponsorships will be extremely difficult to attract and it will be impossible to get investors willing to part with their money.

If you want confirmation look at the past 8 years. The team has been successful on the park but the club has hung on only by the skin of its teeth. What odds do you give for our survival if we have three poor seasons in a row.

The game at North Sydney Oval is obviously Charlesworth/FFA testing the water.

For the future of the Mariners I hope it is successful.

Absolutely..the Central Coast region can only be tapped so much, before it reaches it limit which we have seen with crowd figures stagnating in the 8k range for the most part.
As mentioned the move to further explore the Northern Sydney market makes sense, given not only the Association links but the lack of attention from Sydney FC.
As for NSO prehaps a Friday Night game is a option, to capture those that usually commute home from working in Sydney.

 

[pjennings]

But wish to add my voice to the early days as the club was bedded down without the NS fans following to the CC the club would not have survived ..

So it is our spiritual home ...

I see our spiritual homes as BlueTongue stadium and the COE but fully understand your point. I even watched 'Goal a Game Arnie' playing as a sweeper/captain/coach for Northern Spirit at Central Coast Stadium.

I look at the CCM - Northern Spirit connection similar to the HAL - NSL connection.

This is where the problem lies. I love the Mariners primarily because they are a Coast team. I always loved football - but having the Mariners here has been fantastic. That said - national level football didn't start with like HAL - it started many years earlier with the NSL in the 1970s. In a lot of ways the FFA and the HAL don't seem to acknowledge these roots - sometimes because they want to distance themselves from some of the problems associated with the NSL.Ideally the Mariners can 'acknowledge their roots' with Northern Spirit. How that is done in the years to come may well help the Mariners become more sustainable.

If, however, it follows the Northern Eagles model then we may as well pack up now. Initially the best games were in Gosford but by 2002 the Coast only got 4 games including against the equivalent of Melbourne Heart(Melbourne Storm) and Wellington (North Queensland). There were no games against traditional large drawing teams like the Tigers, Saints,Rabbitohs or even a derby against the Knights.

 

[hayson]

I see our spiritual homes as BlueTongue stadium and the COE but fully understand your point. I even watched 'Goal a Game Arnie' playing as a sweeper/captain/coach for Northern Spirit at Central Coast Stadium.

I look at the CCM - Northern Spirit connection similar to the HAL - NSL connection.

This is where the problem lies. I love the Mariners primarily because they are a Coast team. I always loved football - but having the Mariners here has been fantastic. That said - national level football didn't start with like HAL - it started many years earlier with the NSL in the 1970s. In a lot of ways the FFA and the HAL don't seem to acknowledge these roots - sometimes because they want to distance themselves from some of the problems associated with the NSL.Ideally the Mariners can 'acknowledge their roots' with Northern Spirit. How that is done in the years to come may well help the Mariners become more sustainable.

If, however, it follows the Northern Eagles model then we may as well pack up now. Initially the best games were in Gosford but by 2002 the Coast only got 4 games including against the equivalent of Melbourne Heart(Melbourne Storm) and Wellington (North Queensland). There were no games against traditional large drawing teams like the Tigers, Saints,Rabbitohs or even a derby against the Knights.

You are right PJ, our home is the Central Coast in it's entirety . Good move to try to get more folk from the Northern Sydney region involved though. Many are (myself included) but adding a few more (thousands?) would be great. Maybe transport could be included in the cost of a game ticket. The opportunities could be endless.

 

[Atomic]

I am curious as to where you get the figure of less than 5%. Sounds like an Alan Jones(I don't deal in facts just opinions) figure. As for John Singleton investing the money, he put in some to ensure his stadium investment but most came from elswhere.

As to the link, without Spirit there would be no Mariners. Simple. And without he support from the north of Sydney home crowds would be a lot lower.

The club has always acknowledged the link with the first trial game each season and the first game ever being played against Gladesville Spirit at Christie Park.

It was not just Lawrie and Hutch who had the connection, but also Fergie, Tobin, Wilko, Petrie, Sully, Kwassie and Matty Osman.

Arnie has a very strong Spirit connection being initial captain and coach and also investing heavily in the initial set up.

Support for the Central Coast is very strong in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney,especially in the Gladesville-Hornsby Association, this support should be acknowledged and embraced.If the support from this area is allowed to dwindle in future it will be disastrous.

The future survival of the club is directly linked to its supporter base, it is essential that the link with Sydney's north is maintained and in any way possible strengthened.

The club has successfully tapped the Central Coast for support for 8 years and has come up with a rusted on maybe 4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters.

Long term this is not enough. Without double that amount games will be played at a loss, sponsorships will be extremely difficult to attract and it will be impossible to get investors willing to part with their money.

If you want confirmation look at the past 8 years. The team has been successful on the park but the club has hung on only by the skin of its teeth. What odds do you give for our survival if we have three poor seasons in a row.

The game at North Sydney Oval is obviously Charlesworth/FFA testing the water.

For the future of the Mariners I hope it is successful.

Where to start??? Firstly, I have the Mariners best interests at heart as I'm sure you do too. Yes, we need to tap the Northern Sydney market, however I don't accept your argument that CCM has successfully tapped the local market for 8 years and has to look for new markets. In my opinion, we have only scratched the surface of the local market, there is still a lot to do here on the Coast. We have not exhausted the marketplace by any means. I do agree that it is important to recuit from North Sydney, but it's not as though it's our last resort. Moving games from the Coast WILL BE DISASTROUS!

OK, I pulled the 5% figure out of thin air... but since you want figures to be backed up by facts, please show me the facts supporting your figures of "4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters". You can't... just as I can't, just as midfielder can't with his 25%.

As for Singo's input... Yes, his main concern was the stadium usage, but at the end of the day, Singo loves the Central Coast and has put his hand in his pocket on more than one occasion... and not with the sole purpose of filling his stadium. Remember when SFC were courting Lawrie? Guess who helped him stay on the Coast... and Aloisi of course? And who gave us a brief moment of international importance when he said he'd fund Becks (and Posh)??? If anyone demands that he continually throw cash at us is just massive ingratitude IMHO.

PLEASE do not use Arnie in any argument about connections with NS. Yes, he was a major figure at NS back in the day, but his presence at CCM nowadays has ZERO to do with his NS days.

Basically, I agree that the north of Sydney is a bloody important market... but that's not my original argument. I'm saying that our spiritual home is Grahame Park. Take your NS rose coloured glasses off. CCM got into the A-league through the Regional Team initiative. Not only that, there were no other consortiums that applied for that regional spot, so we kind of got in by default.

I'm not saying that we don't owe NS a debt of gratitude... but in no way is NSO our spiritual home and in no way are we Northern Spirit reincarnated. WE ARE THE CENTRAL COAST!. We welcome supporters from outside our region, but I'll be buggered if we are going to change our identity from anything other than the Central Coast.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

If, however, it follows the Northern Eagles model then we may as well pack up now. Initially the best games were in Gosford but by 2002 the Coast only got 4 games including against the equivalent of Melbourne Heart(Melbourne Storm) and Wellington (North Queensland). There were no games against traditional large drawing teams like the Tigers, Saints,Rabbitohs or even a derby against the Knights.

What is being discussed now is different to the Eagles debacle.

I think the main trouble with the Eagles was that they were a combined team of traditional enemies played in a new area. Pissed off the manly supporters, pissed off the Norths supporters and pissed off the locals.

What do you think would happen if they combined us and the Jets and tried to sell it in Parramatta. No hope.

I would not worry too much about losing games from Gosford to North Sydney Oval. It is not a suitable pitch for the A League.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

OK, I pulled the 5% figure out of thin air... but since you want figures to be backed up by facts, please show me the facts supporting your figures of "4-5k with an extra 2-3k fair weather supporters". You can't... just as I can't, just as midfielder can't with his 25%.

I came to those numbers as an estimate after following the crowd numbers this year, taking into account who we were playing, ACL games included.

When you are on top of the table playing a lower team with little support, often due to distance, and you get 7-8k, I would guess at least 2k of those would not be there if the team were not playing well.

The firstACL game this year probably give a a better indication of the truly rusted on.

10k was often quoted as the break even number for Bluetongue. To only just scrape that number when the team is at the top and playing fantastic football is not enough. To remain viable this club must do something to find a significant increase in support or it will enter an extinction vortex. Poor results next year; falling attendance, more expense per game, less attractive to sponsors, impossible to find investors.

I dread this happening, but it is a distinct possibility.

The Northern Suburbs are a clear underexploited area with already established links.

Games will not be moved there as there are no suitable grounds. I do not include the beaches in this idea, they are just to far out of the way.

However the future of the Mariners may involve including Northern Sydney in their identity.

The only other way I see support increasing is the signing of a MAJOR marquee of the level of Beckham or ADP, much bigger than any others including Ono and Heskey. Luca$h or other past it Socceroos would not be enough.
Then flog it for all the publicity you can get.

Unfortunately I do not see anyone putting up the money nor anyone else driving the publicity which is easier to do in a major city like Sydney or Melbourne.

As for not exhausting the local market, when you have a champion team, consistently successful over 8 seasons, fighting for the premiership and winning the championship all the while flogging that the mariners are the Central Coast team, the number of bums on seats this year looks to me as though the local market has reached its peak. This is not knocking the local market, as is often pointed out, as a percentage of the population Mariners attract more support than any other club.
This makes me think we have squeezed the local market for all it is worth.

Winter is coming, we need to prepare.