Mariners V Roar

[FFC Mariner]

Meh.

Let me respond to your in-depth critique.
Young footballers (like all young men) are inconsistent and not physically developed
While both Balard and Steele will have decent careers I think Steele is the closest to a Hutch/Monty that we have had come through.
To call them stop gaps is kinda mean

 

[marinermick]

Meh.

Your argument is so articulate. Convinced me.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Hello, hello sailor,

I can understand present concerns about Steele less so Max but he still has plenty of room for improvement, however long term I feel the opposite.

I love that we nurture youth, and seeing young stars get made is just awesome, the down side that I hate being a Mariners supporter is developing players through their early/weaker years and then watching them finally become ready to do the job across a full season for someone else.

So I’m happy they’re on 3 year deals. I think both will have A league careers, but there’s a price we pay in getting there with any young players,

And no brainer for mine that Niz is well in front of both them.

 

[Hello Sailor]

Sorry guys, I didn't get the memo that states:

a] Its OK to be critical of players when deserved, or wish for upgrades [eg Kalechi, Nigro and both Silvera and Beni have copped plenty of stick at times], except
b] in cases where that player has come through the academy.

Criticism of clause 'b' players even when its acknowledged that they have not fully developed/matured, are inconsistent, have room for improvement, [eg Steele and Bollard] is deemed to be wrong, insulting and mean.
Got It.

 

[pjennings]

Sorry guys, I didn't get the memo that states:

a] Its OK to be critical of players when deserved, or wish for upgrades [eg Kalechi, Nigro and both Silvera and Beni have copped plenty of stick at times], except
b] in cases where that player has come through the academy.

Criticism of clause 'b' players even when its acknowledged that they have not fully developed/matured, are inconsistent, have room for improvement, [eg Steele and Bollard] is deemed to be wrong, insulting and mean.
Got It.

I think the point is that that how the clubs operates. We develop players so you have to realise there will be inconsistencies. If the club operated by 'buying the best' it would be another paradigm.

Criticism of (b) players is ok - but we develop them knowing that there will be inconsistent play as they develop. There will be players that won't make it. But I think Steele and Balard will develop into strong A League players

 

[FFC Mariner]

Short version
For every Kuol there are at least 2 Smylies.

 

[Coastalraider]

Heres one for discussion - given that the clubs approach is to develop Australian youth via our academy, and potentially get younger visas all with an eye to on-sell for profit, is it enough for players such as Steele and Ballard to be strong A-league players if there are no internal transfer fees?

Potentially that’s why players such as Aqualina and Roos were let go so easily, that the ceiling was deemed low enough that international sale was unlikely?

 

[shipwreck]

100% agree with Coastal.

Our business model should always be to develop transfer fee potential, it sucks but that's the reality.

We sell that model on talented young players to come here and mould their best chance of making it overseas. What's the cutoff? 23? 25?

Until we get transfer fees within the a league we will just end up with being responsible for developing Sydney bench and the odd 6 figure fee to Asia if we aren't ruthless.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Sorry guys, I didn't get the memo that states:

a] Its OK to be critical of players when deserved, or wish for upgrades [eg Kalechi, Nigro and both Silvera and Beni have copped plenty of stick at times], except
b] in cases where that player has come through the academy.

Criticism of clause 'b' players even when its acknowledged that they have not fully developed/matured, are inconsistent, have room for improvement, [eg Steele and Bollard] is deemed to be wrong, insulting and mean.
Got It.

Speaking for myself, (obviously besides personal attacks) I think it's completely fine to criticise any player and have your own opinion. In fact I think it's a key component of a functioning fan forum. And that includes if someone doesn't think a player is A league level or will not be around or good enough long term.

I do also think that it's okay for someone else to think your opinion is insulting. And in this instance, I reckon there's a pretty decent chance either one of these opinions could turn out to be true.
I do think these posts typically go down better when backed up by a posters reasoning, though to be fair certainly not always.
I think in this instance developing youth is a fair counter argument. As is positive bias on here to academy players, or players posters may know or like. Pretty normal and to be expected. But for sure, doesn't mean it can't be frustrating or just plain wrong. The endless Muzz love on here used to make me think I was losing my mind.

 

[priorpeter]

Just looking browsing through some stats earlier because my life is just that interesting:

Balard 22/23
86% passing accuracy (from 700 passes)
56% duels won (67 of 120)
17 shot assists
Dispossessed 14 times

Stensness 20/21
85% passing accuracy (from 1051 passes)
53% duels won (118 from 221)
20 shot assists
Dispossessed 27 times

Steele 22/23
87% passing accuracy (from 440 passes)
58% duels won (34 from 59)
11 shot assists
Dispossessed just twice.

Nisbet 22/23
89% passing accuracy (from 919 passes)
60% duels won (62 of 104)
18 shot assists
Dispossessed 10 times.

Not arguing that these stats tell the whole story by any stretch, but they at the very least allow you to at least start painting a picture as to whether these players are “up to A-League standard” or just “meh”.

 

[Wombat]

Sorry guys, I didn't get the memo that states:

a] Its OK to be critical of players when deserved, or wish for upgrades [eg Kalechi, Nigro and both Silvera and Beni have copped plenty of stick at times], except
b] in cases where that player has come through the academy.

Criticism of clause 'b' players even when its acknowledged that they have not fully developed/matured, are inconsistent, have room for improvement, [eg Steele and Bollard] is deemed to be wrong, insulting and mean.
Got It.

Bollard. Love it.

You are 100% correct Academy players are always a protected species on here.

I think you are wrong with Balard, although he has been generally average this season compared to his form at the end of last year. Harry has been very average all year apart from one excellent game. At this stage he is a Coach killer and Monty is stubborn so intesting to see if he kills Monty or his game improves. Niz is vastly superior but did fail to track players on two occassions so possibly Monty is cutting his nose (to educate Niz to what is needed) rather than spiting his own face.

 

[Wombat]

The endless Muzz love on here used to make me think I was losing my mind.

Yep. Some sensible people got caught up in that shit!!! Bloke was woeful.

 

[Corsair]

[eg Steele and Bollard]

Paging @priorpeter do you think Mr Bollard has a big career as a Traffic Warden ahead of him?!

 

[priorpeter]

You are 100% correct Academy players are always a protected specieson here.

Have to disagree - admittedly yes some on here will be predisposed to have a soft spot for the kids coming through, but look at the flak players like Jok, Windust, and Hall have copped on the forum this season.

 

[priorpeter]

Paging @priorpeter do you think Mr Bollard has a big career as a Traffic Warden ahead of him?!

Couldn’t tell you, no idea who Bollard is. Good luck to him in any case. Though I’d say Mr Balard has a big career as a footballer ahead of him.

 

[Corsair]

Just looking browsing through some stats earlier because my life is just that interesting:

Balard 22/23
86% passing accuracy (from 700 passes)
56% duels won (67 of 120)
17 shot assists
Dispossessed 14 times

Stensness 20/21
85% passing accuracy (from 1051 passes)
53% duels won (118 from 221)
20 shot assists
Dispossessed 27 times

Steele 22/23
87% passing accuracy (from 440 passes)
58% duels won (34 from 59)
11 shot assists
Dispossessed just twice.

Nisbet 22/23
89% passing accuracy (from 919 passes)
60% duels won (62 of 104)
18 shot assists
Dispossessed 10 times.

Not arguing that these stats tell the whole story by any stretch, but they at the very least allow you to at least start painting a picture as to whether these players are “up to A-League standard” or just “meh”.

Certainly don't tell a full story, easy to have high passing accuracy if you're constantly passing sideways and backwards. I'd love to see the percentages on that.

Niz so underrated.

 

[Wombat]

Just looking browsing through some stats earlier because my life is just that interesting:

Balard 22/23
86% passing accuracy (from 700 passes)
56% duels won (67 of 120)
17 shot assists
Dispossessed 14 times

Stensness 20/21
85% passing accuracy (from 1051 passes)
53% duels won (118 from 221)
20 shot assists
Dispossessed 27 times

Steele 22/23
87% passing accuracy (from 440 passes)
58% duels won (34 from 59)
11 shot assists
Dispossessed just twice.

Nisbet 22/23
89% passing accuracy (from 919 passes)
60% duels won (62 of 104)
18 shot assists
Dispossessed 10 times.

Not arguing that these stats tell the whole story by any stretch, but they at the very least allow you to at least start painting a picture as to whether these players are “up to A-League standard” or just “meh”.

Steele and Hutcho etc are made to look good by stats because they never go forward. Ray wilkins was the same.....never gave the ball away but never created anything....stifling sideways movement.
Right now Dan Hall is a massive culprit as well but probably has the best passing stats in the squad.
I DO think Harry Steele will make the grade but he is not worthy of anything but closing out a game atm.

 

[Ironbark]

Niz has consistently handled a substantial, nay, monster workload and for a long period. He gives it everything too. I think Monty is giving him a breather ahead of the final season games and then finals. Good management really.

At the same time as has already been mentioned he is blooding academy players, not just in Harry and Maxi, but in lots of positions. It hasn't worked out perfectly but it's required at some point in the season and that's how it goes sometimes.
When we're down on depth anyway - as we certainly have been recently - it makes sense to do it now in order to build some depth as we get to the pointy end.

Will be interesting to see the line up when we actually have a fully available squad to choose from. That's without DWH even being sighted as yet.

 

[Corsair]

Will be interesting to see the line up when we actually have a fully available squad to choose from. That's without DWH even being sighted as yet.

Surely he debuts Wenzel-Denzel as soon as he's fit. Training shots with him in and been alluded to that he's ready to come back. Roar would be a great game to debut him.

 

[Corsair]

Paging @priorpeter do you think Mr Bollard has a big career as a Traffic Warden ahead of him?!

He gets the green light from me