Mariners Squad - HAL 12 - 2016 - 2017

[Coach]

Some very interedting comments;
Izzo will go back to Adelaide as first choice next year. At best Galekovic will be the GK coach and maybe backup, he is busted. Sideways yes, but, appealing for an Adelaide boy with a fatter cheque
Posco will be sort by a number if clubs with big wallets including O/S, he has a European passport - most likley gone.
Monty should be signed by now, anybody know why we haven't?
Roy will stay, rumoured outside interest appears to be a pay increase strategy.
Storm will stay, rumour has that Perth and Wanderers have swapped right backs.
Galloway - Perth interest is strong and they are desperate for a leftback, he may want to go home.
Rumour has it we are in the market for 2 xCB's, 1xDM, 1xAM, 1xSriker and 2GK's. Im guessing the success of this shopping will determine if Bingham and Fab are retained.

 

[nebakke]

Eugene understudy is a muppet. He looks like Izzo last year!!

Roy, Izzo and Monty should all be resigned. It's not rocket science ....even for the brains trust that have run us for the last few years

In fairness, John Hall looked pretty good when he stood in for Eugene at the start of last season and seems to have improved a bit last weekend... I'd suggest that, while the #1 spot is probably likely for Izzo in Adelaide, not guaranteed... Not to mention that it's the rose-tinted glasses that would drive him back, to some extend, I think - considering the derision that was coming from many of the Adelaide fans when we signed him in the first place.

Can't blame him though, once that's said... I'd probably tend in that direction too...

 

[scottmac]

Who's to say Amor will be at Adelaide next year. He really doesn't deserve to be. Everything may change over there.

 

[AuzDutchy]

Part of the problem would be that you're basically budgeting for a bunch of players to fill roles at a certain % of salary cap. But the player's dollar value doesn't fluctuate like that.

The cap might be going up by 30%, with a chunk of extra money distributed to fund club expenses, or the entire additional sum might get poured into the cap (which would be monumentally f**king stupid and would basically kill us as a club, but that's a discussion for another place) so the cap rises by 70% or so.

If suddenly you're able to (or really, forced to, because you've got to hit the cap floor and you've got to try to be competitive!) offer $170k rather than $130k for a player, you're going to sign a player worth the extra $40k rather than just hand an extra $40k to the same player. If we *were* to do the latter, unless we had been offering massive unders (in which case the player would likely move elsewhere anyway), we'd be absolute morons.

That's an extreme example obviously, but it illustrates the uncertain position that our club is in.

EDITED: I screwed up my maths

Surely they could draw up some estimate contracts to put before the players now. If the cap is X you get X, if the cap is Y you get Y etc etc.

Atleast sign them to pre-contracts tying them to the club pending financial details being figured out, with clauses allowing the player to leave after X date if nothings been worked out.

Just seems silly to not be tying down the players you really want to keep, which leads to me wondering if the club want to keep Monty, Roy & Izzo etc whos to say the club dont already have replacements lined up for them that none of us know of.

 

[Timmah]

This isn't a CCM problem - it's A-League wide. There's some 120 players off contract as I understand.

 

[shipwreck]

I'm calling it now, next season is going to be as unpredictable as the first season of the aleague.

 

[FFC Mariner]

From what I'm hearing, reports of a mass exodus are wildly exaggerated.

 

[Wombat]

Sadly there are too many who see a headline 'Monty not offered a contract' and start stamping their feet as though it all must be complete now now now.

Monty's manager and he himself are being smart, getting the concept out there and allowing it to be known, and hopefully for Monty's case, driving up his value.

Unlikely that at his age he thinks he can drive up his value. He just wants to be resigned. I will be royally pissed off if we dont sign him to another year.
Having 3 or 4 pissant 19yo's that are scared to get the ball during the game might be cheap Mike but it achieves nothing apart from a bottom 2 finish.

 

[Wombat]

Out of interest who do you define as 'the brains trust that have run us for the last few years'? Literally the only person left there at a senior level from when we won the championship is Mike himself?

Yep. With Mike at the helm its been a disaster and its been Mike and his various stooges over the last 3 years. But the unmistakable stench of failure is "eau de cologne de Charlesworth" permeating from one f**k up to the next.

Also Mike had nothing to do with us winning the championship, he simply came in and asset stripped us from 1st to last in quick style.

 

[dibo]

"Asset stripped"? We were broke.

 

[Gratis]

Monty will be re-signed, no brainer. It's a timing thing.

No inside info - call it a hunch.

 

[nebakke]

Surely they could draw up some estimate contracts to put before the players now. If the cap is X you get X, if the cap is Y you get Y etc etc.

Atleast sign them to pre-contracts tying them to the club pending financial details being figured out, with clauses allowing the player to leave after X date if nothings been worked out.

Just seems silly to not be tying down the players you really want to keep, which leads to me wondering if the club want to keep Monty, Roy & Izzo etc whos to say the club dont already have replacements lined up for them that none of us know of.

This is probably where it's worth remembering again, that it's not just about what the club wants...

Look at it like this, even if you wanted to re-sign, as a player, would you be keen to sign on a 'pre-contract' contract, which tied you in to one club, knowing that there are three other clubs that are interested and that the cost of you signing on something that MIGHT be the right conditions, could be losing out on (for some) your last chance of getting the perfect conditions?

The problem being that, in terms of negotiations, someone like roy might be willing to stay with us for - and I have NO idea of the numbers, so just throwing them out there - say 200,000 even if someone else offers 300,000, out of loyalty.
But if, in case of a bad deal, we can only afford to offer him 150,000 and another club still has the finances and cap-space to offer him 300,000 he might be in a very poor position.
Not to mention that if he did sign on that pre-contract, he'd lose the ability to negotiate with other clubs until such a time when he knows that his terms can't be met - by then it might be too late.

In terms of Roy, Monty and Storm, I think they're doing what they can at this point, to make it clear that they are really keen to stay... I wouldn't mind the club being a bit more vocal about the last two as well, but I think they're trying to avoid making promises they suddenly can't keep...

As Timmah said, this is an A-league-wide problem, we feel it more because of the tighter budget, but it's not really that different elsewhere.

 

[nebakke]

he simply came in and asset stripped us from 1st to last in quick style.

Bearing in mind that, according to Peter Turnbull, the media, office staff, creditors and MC himself - the deal was literally finalised and funds transferred on the evening of the Thursday when unmeetable debt-payments were due at midnight. It was literally MC or fold.

In light of that, I still think he's doing a reasonable job... For the first time in years, we've made it through the majority of a season without issues about unpaid salaries or super and the results are slowly improving.
I understand why you're pissed at him, but even disregarding the improving circumstances, what is the genuine alternative? Who is going to buy him out, take over and run the club at enough profit that we can suddenly afford the sort of team that won us the Championship?

 

[style_cafe]

Bearing in mind that, according to Peter Turnbull, the media, office staff, creditors and MC himself - the deal was literally finalised and funds transferred on the evening of the Thursday when unmeetable debt-payments were due at midnight. It was literally MC or fold.

In light of that, I still think he's doing a reasonable job... For the first time in years, we've made it through the majority of a season without issues about unpaid salaries or super and the results are slowly improving.
I understand why you're pissed at him, but even disregarding the improving circumstances, what is the genuine alternative? Who is going to buy him out, take over and run the club at enough profit that we can suddenly afford the sort of team that won us the Championship?

The Russians? The Chinese? Everton?

 

[AuzDutchy]

This is probably where it's worth remembering again, that it's not just about what the club wants...

Look at it like this, even if you wanted to re-sign, as a player, would you be keen to sign on a 'pre-contract' contract, which tied you in to one club, knowing that there are three other clubs that are interested and that the cost of you signing on something that MIGHT be the right conditions, could be losing out on (for some) your last chance of getting the perfect conditions?

The problem being that, in terms of negotiations, someone like roy might be willing to stay with us for - and I have NO idea of the numbers, so just throwing them out there - say 200,000 even if someone else offers 300,000, out of loyalty.
But if, in case of a bad deal, we can only afford to offer him 150,000 and another club still has the finances and cap-space to offer him 300,000 he might be in a very poor position.
Not to mention that if he did sign on that pre-contract, he'd lose the ability to negotiate with other clubs until such a time when he knows that his terms can't be met - by then it might be too late.

In terms of Roy, Monty and Storm, I think they're doing what they can at this point, to make it clear that they are really keen to stay... I wouldn't mind the club being a bit more vocal about the last two as well, but I think they're trying to avoid making promises they suddenly can't keep...

As Timmah said, this is an A-league-wide problem, we feel it more because of the tighter budget, but it's not really that different elsewhere.

Very good points, thankyou for pointing that out, I hadnt thought of it from the players perspective. Based on all of that then i think that its more on the Club to be making sure these guys WANT to stay here rather than thinking of moving elsewhere, which they may be doing, they just arent letting us know too much about it.

 

[Wombat]

"Asset stripped"? We were broke.

The Assets were our players.

 

[dibo]

...you don't actually know what asset stripping is, do you? The idea is that you make a profit from it.

We didn't have assets. We were broke. He "bought" a shit-tonne of debt.

The cash from the few player sales that there were (of players going off contract that we couldn't afford to re-sign) wouldn't have gone close to covering off that season's operating cash losses, let alone the cash for the debts retired.

Since MC took over, we've had a lot of players leave, but most were coming off contract, terminated or released, or in McGlinchey's case sued his way out. Very few actual sales of note.

All the while, the club's been losing ~$1m a season.

If you want to complain that MC hasn't spent enough on the club, feel free, but the idea that he's *profited* from running the club down is fanciful.

 

[nebakke]

The Assets were our players.

You mean the ones we couldn't afford to pay before Charlesworth took over?

 

[Big Al]

So Monty our heart and soul doesn't have a contract offer, Paulo stated at the forum we've already signed the ones we want or something to that effect when pressed on his methods.

Is Monty actually out in the cold and have a few surprised Paulo as the season has progressed e.g. Roy, Monty and maybe even Fab lately.

Of all the players we have Monty gives every thing and is one of the few players the team has that has community appeal. Casuals actually know his name.

I'd be very pissed off if they don't offer him a contract. If he refuses one that's fine but at least give him one.

 

[Big Al]

I also don't buy the whole we don't know how much we have crap.

You already have a base (this years cap) work off that and leave say 3 spaces left and you can spend what is needed there.

Our club also needs to spending on more say 250,000-$300,000 players so that we have a base of 6-7 quality players and a few average income players and the rest spent on our kids.

Roy would be pushing for a big pay rise and could get it but the rest don't deserve it. Monty is certainly not worth more but definitely worth the same. He was a beast this year.

Other clubs are buying players so what are they basing there deals on.

Worried we are sitting on our hands, players will only sit on their hands for so long until job security is a worry. Their agents can tell them to wait all they want but the wife will be saying we got bills to pay and where are we going to be next year.

Hopefully there is stuff happening we don't know about

Roy and now Monty are putting media pressure on the club which is an interesting negotiating tactic, but one they have earned.

As for Izzo if he goes, he still can't build a wall or kick in general play but his shot stopping will be missed. Maybe Eugine injury is worse than first thought or as rumoured moving home to Melb city but what about Booozanis?