Mariners Squad - 2019-2020

[Forum Phoenix]

Some of our best chances and goals come from our strikers feeding our midfield

Largely Duric, precisely because he's making the best runs.

 

[turbo]

You can’t feed a non run and our strikers movement is sub par at best

Spot on about stats not always telling the story.
IMO Muzz makes a lot of opportunities that bring others in to the attack, more so than Matty who is more of a nod down/pass off for a finish as opposed to going after a long ball or pass and creating something, unfortunately he’s missed some finishes that we need and would have us singing his praises.

I don’t think stats tell the story here and what we see although subjective paints a better picture.

 

[marinermick]

I don’t think stats tell the story here and what we see although subjective paints a better picture.

And here lies the problem with football support and opinion. Subjectiveness will be different according to what we see and understand and this will be different according to the individual. More sowhen people get in an echo chamber and start to reinforce each other’s belief.

I am not saying in this case that one opinion is more justified than the other. The jury is out for me. I have played at a high level, coached at a decent level and hold an AFC C Licence; but I am still trying to understand the whole picture and don’t know myself. And when I got some pearls of real information (not opinion) from Kale midweek it jolted me into trying to think deeper and beyond the popular opinion here.. I even touched base with two respected football coaches during the week to discuss and the general consensus was that it was early days to know for sure and more analysis was needed. Though it was noted that Staj is probably doing a very good job and needs more time.

What was noted was that Murray and Simon were very different strikers and may have been instructed to play in certain ways. It was also noted that the midfield has also been not operating at an optimum. The vertically of passes is quite low (aside from a couple fantastic long diagonal balls from Djuric) and they have probably been hanging on to the ball too long making space in the final third difficult to find.

My comment earlier on this thread is that the when you don’t score goals the strikers are an easy target and Matt Simon has been the whipping boy. The information is that they are just not getting the service. Whether that is the striker’s fault, the midfielder’s fault, Staj’s fault, or a combination, is still up in the air.

So, yes, I am going to jump into defence of our strikers (stupid yellow cards aside) because of what I have saw, read and discussed with others this season.

While spending a bomb on a new striker would be nice it might not be the panacea to our problems.

 

[yorkshireman]

And here lies the problem with football support and opinion. Subjectiveness will be different according to what we see and understand and this will be different according to the individual. More sowhen people get in an echo chamber and start to reinforce each other’s belief.

I am not saying in this case that one opinion is more justified than the other. The jury is out for me. I have played at a high level, coached at a decent level and hold an AFC C Licence; but I am still trying to understand the whole picture and don’t know myself. And when I got some pearls of real information (not opinion) from Kale midweek it jolted me into trying to think deeper and beyond the popular opinion here.. I even touched base with two respected football coaches during the week to discuss and the general consensus was that it was early days to know for sure and more analysis was needed. Though it was noted that Staj is probably doing a very good job and needs more time.

What was noted was that Murray and Simon were very different strikers and may have been instructed to play in certain ways. It was also noted that the midfield has also been not operating at an optimum. The vertically of passes is quite low (aside from a couple fantastic long diagonal balls from Djuric) and they have probably been hanging on to the ball too long making space in the final third difficult to find.

My comment earlier on this thread is that the when you don’t score goals the strikers are an easy target and Matt Simon has been the whipping boy. The information is that they are just not getting the service. Whether that is the striker’s fault, the midfielder’s fault, Staj’s fault, or a combination, is still up in the air.

So, yes, I am going to jump into defence of our strikers (stupid yellow cards aside) because of what I have saw, read and discussed with others this season.

While spending a bomb on a new striker would be nice it might not be the panacea to our problems.

Totally agree with this, it is pretty clear that Muzza struggles with his back to goal when asked to play a holding roll but this is where Matty is pretty good. In the same way, the cross for Milan's goal on the weekend wouldn't have been produced by Matty as he isnt a speedster any longer and would struggle to produce the pass. As you mention, our ball through to the front line is often too laboured and as a result leaves little space for the forwards to run into or use.
Again, is this due to our mids not being given the runs to aim for, a plan, poor foresight or a combination? We will likely only se as the season progresses.

 

[turbo]

My comment earlier on this thread is that the when you don’t score goals the strikers are an easy target and Matt Simon has been the whipping boy. The information is that they are just not getting the service. Whether that is the striker’s fault, the midfielder’s fault, Staj’s fault, or a combination, is still up in the air.

Don't get me wrong I see a lot of value in stats and wasnt taking anything away from Kale's analysis but we have to be careful not to confuse correlation and causation. As you say the blame likely spans multiple positions on and off the pitch and you'll get differing opinions on the fix even amongst the experts. All any of us can offer is our opinions and we aren't privy to the instructions the players have been given, but based on what we've seen in the last year or so Matty isn't the type of striker to make the runs and get the service and that changes how the others around him play to him. We have to work it up the pitch more as a group or go with MM's plan of hold up for him to play someone else on. Looks like a square peg and a round hole but not as bad as when we tried to partner him with McCormack, that was really bad.

 

[Coastalraider]

In the FFA cup match at home, Muzz got fed.

Muzz wasn't hungry.

 

[Ironbark]

More so when people get in an echo chamber and start to reinforce each other’s belief.

I agree with this

 

[Ironbark]

And here lies the problem with football support and opinion. Subjectiveness will be different according to what we see and understand and this will be different according to the individual. More sowhen people get in an echo chamber and start to reinforce each other’s belief.

I am not saying in this case that one opinion is more justified than the other. The jury is out for me. I have played at a high level, coached at a decent level and hold an AFC C Licence; but I am still trying to understand the whole picture and don’t know myself. And when I got some pearls of real information (not opinion) from Kale midweek it jolted me into trying to think deeper and beyond the popular opinion here.. I even touched base with two respected football coaches during the week to discuss and the general consensus was that it was early days to know for sure and more analysis was needed. Though it was noted that Staj is probably doing a very good job and needs more time.

What was noted was that Murray and Simon were very different strikers and may have been instructed to play in certain ways. It was also noted that the midfield has also been not operating at an optimum. The vertically of passes is quite low (aside from a couple fantastic long diagonal balls from Djuric) and they have probably been hanging on to the ball too long making space in the final third difficult to find.

My comment earlier on this thread is that the when you don’t score goals the strikers are an easy target and Matt Simon has been the whipping boy. The information is that they are just not getting the service. Whether that is the striker’s fault, the midfielder’s fault, Staj’s fault, or a combination, is still up in the air.

So, yes, I am going to jump into defence of our strikers (stupid yellow cards aside) because of what I have saw, read and discussed with others this season.

While spending a bomb on a new striker would be nice it might not be the panacea to our problems.

Isn't it nice to be discussing it at this level though. Mulvey, Walmsley and Moss were nowhere near this level of technical planning. The fact that Staj is has brought us back into the competition

 

[marinermick]

Yet we have been no more successful with Murray at nine either.

Isn't it nice to be discussing it at this level though. Mulvey, Walmsley and Moss were nowhere near this level of technical planning. The fact that Staj is has brought us back into the competition

And nice to have a conversation and debate without getting personal. Something that is slipping from our society.

 

[Big Al]

And here lies the problem with football support and opinion. Subjectiveness will be different according to what we see and understand and this will be different according to the individual. More sowhen people get in an echo chamber and start to reinforce each other’s belief.

I am not saying in this case that one opinion is more justified than the other. The jury is out for me. I have played at a high level, coached at a decent level and hold an AFC C Licence; but I am still trying to understand the whole picture and don’t know myself. And when I got some pearls of real information (not opinion) from Kale midweek it jolted me into trying to think deeper and beyond the popular opinion here.. I even touched base with two respected football coaches during the week to discuss and the general consensus was that it was early days to know for sure and more analysis was needed. Though it was noted that Staj is probably doing a very good job and needs more time.

What was noted was that Murray and Simon were very different strikers and may have been instructed to play in certain ways. It was also noted that the midfield has also been not operating at an optimum. The vertically of passes is quite low (aside from a couple fantastic long diagonal balls from Djuric) and they have probably been hanging on to the ball too long making space in the final third difficult to find.

My comment earlier on this thread is that the when you don’t score goals the strikers are an easy target and Matt Simon has been the whipping boy. The information is that they are just not getting the service. Whether that is the striker’s fault, the midfielder’s fault, Staj’s fault, or a combination, is still up in the air.

So, yes, I am going to jump into defence of our strikers (stupid yellow cards aside) because of what I have saw, read and discussed with others this season.

While spending a bomb on a new striker would be nice it might not be the panacea to our problems.

We have a set up in playing out from the back. Lets use the left as an example.
Rowles or Clisby has the ball. Just outside our own box. One of the midfielders lets say DDS pushes towards the line but towards the back as 1st outlet option. If pressured then there is another midfielder more centered lets say duric who provides option 2 for the outlet then if both aren’t available the third option is a long ball to Murray but instead of an up and under that Mat might try to win in the air Murray makes a diagonal run from the center of the field to the left wing. The long ball is played over the LB who is usually pushing up on DDS and Juric to try press us. Murray is getting this ball a fair bit. It’s very successful to get us up field.

However this is where Kane Morrows heat maps come into play. Murray our striker and goal scorer is now on the left touchline where he is no hope of scoring.

His options should be DDS pushing through the middle or Duric. However the problem seems to be say Oar is not then becoming the striker.

Watch the Duric goals (both weeks) and you will see this set up.

The problem is our striker is not in a striker position and is actually our winger, hence the assists.

I am interested to see if we can develop something more from it as an attacking threat or is it purely an outlet from defence and scoring two goals from it is more good luck than by design?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Quality discussion. Look forward to when I finish work and can contribute nite again,

 

[Pirate Pete]

[QUOTE

The problem is our striker is not in a striker position and is actually our winger, hence the assists.
[/QUOTE]

This is 100% correct. I pointed it out to my mate a couple of times last week.

 

[Ads]

Happens in a lot of teams that lack quality and effective use of the ball in all midfield areas.
Most prominently seen in Brisbane, Newcastle and us.

To many non inventive DM type players that don’t have the fitness and ability to keep playing 1,2’s until an opportunity presents itself slowly moving the ball forward and side to side.

If we loose another couple games,
I would suggest swapping Duric for DDS
And if we loose the next match, move Ziggy to middle and put Miller in right back.
But for now.

Ziggy——Fox——Rowles——Clisby
————DDS——Stens/Kim———-
——Silvera———Duric———Oar—-
——————Murray———————

Or

Ziggy——Fox——Rowles——Clisby
Silvera——DDS——Kim——-Oar
——————Duric———————
——————Murray——————

 

[turbo]

Roy just butchered a chance that was practically a tap in for Brisbane and would have had them level. Pretty sure he’s on a lot more than Muzz as well.

 

[MagpieMariner]

One thing Snake could teach our strikers -- get in the keeper's face all the time.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

One thing Snake could teach our strikers -- get in the keeper's face all the time.

That's about all he can do now.

 

[sydmariner]

One thing Snake could teach our strikers -- get in the keeper's face all the time.

Last time he did that he got 10 games.

 

[MagpieMariner]

Last time he did that he got 10 games.

True, I certainly don't want our guys taught filth like that.
I meant the way he pressures the keeper. Prevents an easy clearance.

 

[MagpieMariner]

That's about all he can do now.

He must have been watching our guys. Maybe our guys have been watching him.

 

[Spacks]

He was pretty determined to score goals, which was nice.