Mariners @ Glory Hole 15/3

[true believer]

He did not provide scintillating attacking runs or passes that led to goals. He played as a #6 and let Ollie do more of the distributing. However without Nizz sprinting back in defence, while the rest of the midfield jogged, after we turned over the ball in attack, I suspect we would have conceded a heap goals.
He is possibly in the wrong position. As a winger he was able to bring some creativity to our attack. However, we had plenty of potential wingers and our young DMs were struggling, hence the shift. I think a lot of the problem is that he is playing more of a #6 to Ollie's #8. Although Ollie is the captain and calls the shots on the field I think this is a mistake. Ollie does not seem to have the legs anymore to play box to box all game.
Personally I would like to see Nizz in a more advanced central role, providing passes for a striker or for wingers to run onto.

so we put our best attacking player in defense . instead of adding the physically every coach in the a league has identified as our weakness .
ollie looks a shadow . his mistake rate shows how fatigued he is becoming .
if we play the same setup saturday the cows will kick us to death and flog the carcass 6 nil

 

[Ironbark]

Thinking about the game again.

* Once again no individual player played badly as such. (No howlers)

* We simply only have two options which include moving the ball into the middle whereby the opposition is right up our arse and we get dispossessed.

Or we long ball with probably only a 30% chance it will fall to us.

* We simply need to change the story of how we move the ball from the back to the front which seems like the only way is re-designing our structure and the way the players think about moving back and forward with their off the ball movement.

* I think it’s easier having some poor performers so we can place blame and identify weak areas but the reason that this season is almost more frustrating than others is that we know the boys have potential and the potential for best goal scorers in a long time.

Very hard to watch a tactically struggling team.

Great summary

 

[Gazza 13]

How frustrating. If only we were consistent and could come in clutch in those moments and we'd be one of the best teams in the League!

 

[BrisRecky]

Did someone say Miller in the mids with Bayliss in his old spot?….works for me

 

[FFC Mariner]

Did someone say Miller in the mids with Bayliss in his old spot?….works for me

Miller might be "out" for a bit - hopefully not

 

[Ancient Mariner]

so we put our best attacking player in defense . instead of adding the physically every coach in the a league has identified as our weakness .
ollie looks a shadow . his mistake rate shows how fatigued he is becoming .
if we play the same setup saturday the cows will kick us to death and flog the carcass 6 nil

Nizz is a very good DM, he is also very versatile and could probably make a fair go of any position on the park. While I would not call him our best attacking player he is probably our most technically skilful and has the awareness to anticipate and read the game that few others do. His vision is far superior to any in our team. In a top side he would be fielding calls from Arnie.
Where those abilities are best used for us, with our limited squad, is the question.

 

[Yorkshire Mariners FC]

Watched the replay this morning -a point and a clean sheet and let's move on.

Poor bugger

 

[Allreet?]

I went to bed at half time.

Guessed what the result would be.

Counting half time, that's an hour added to my life.

 

[Insertnamehere]

This football we are playing is dire and far too negative. Its been like this all year, bar a few weeks where we notched a few wins.

We have a much better squad than some of the teams in the league. And why get another striker in Cummings when we don't really bother trying to get the ball forward to him.

I made a comment after about 5 weeks that we don't have a style. Well I got howled down. And we haven't improved. Our style sucks.

 

[true believer]

Nizz is a very good DM, he is also very versatile and could probably make a fair go of any position on the park. While I would not call him our best attacking player he is probably our most technically skilful and has the awareness to anticipate and read the game that few others do. His vision is far superior to any in our team. In a top side he would be fielding calls from Arnie.
Where those abilities are best used for us, with our limited squad, is the question.

nizzy and hall can play anywhere . are we getting the full benefit of them ?
like nizzy , cy is a technically gifted player ,but would get pushed around in the under 16's .
in one of the most physical leagues in the world .he has no effect .
we have been mortally wounded by the loss of stens and the unavailability of simons and roun .
we need an enforcer at cb and another at dm

birraz

bayliss roun/miller rowles farrell

hall oli/roun

nizzy urena beni

cummings

 

[sydmariner]

 

[Wombat]

I don’t see how highlighting a few coaching errors several years ago have any relevance to his performance as a football analyst or this discussion.

The bloke was a complete flog as a coach and started our demise. He was actually worse than Warmsley because he killed us while still having a budget. Good bloke for sure and i wish him well as an analyst and radio pundit.......but the bloke was a disaster for us....lets not sugar coat it......apart from Sully he may be the worst coach in the history of the HAL. As a pundit, he goes ok.

 

[Wombat]

yes am. he was unable to effect anything .
he's in the wrong position

He is solving a problem. We didnt replace Stens and our two local cheaparse players are not yet up to the standard (both are quality but flawed prospects). Niz is not the problem at all.

 

[Wombat]

So nice to hear a manager talk honestly. Monty is a breath of fresh air.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I had the same expectations and in the end a draw was a good result for us. Not that I liked it but in light of the reality of the situations, and where we are currently it Is passable. Just.

What really concerns me is the lack of combinations anywhere on the park, but especially moving the ball from midfield to the strikers to a goal scoring opportunity. Our default is to play back which suggests players don’t have a plan going forward. This, to me, is a coaching not a player issue.

We have invested a big chunk of our cap and all our imports in the front third and yet not getting anything out of them. We have seen that these players have the ability to do much better than the past two months but they are stifled, not energetic and working in silos.

A massive test for Monty as a coach going forward will be how creates solutions to these football problems.

This nails it for me also unfortunately.

The lack of direction, midfield control, effective movement, effective width and combinations was surely impacted by the many disruptions, (including bringing in Cummings) But Monty brought Cummings in and despite lacking time and opportunity to fix, the above is still all Monty's job.

But I do agree with Tevor. Cy is a long way from being a DDS replacement. Stens was always going to be a big loss. Clisby showed how much more he offers in attack than Farrell. And we never replaced Matty in terms of like for like.

We seem to routinely lack two quality players on the park and two or three on the bench. And we know why. Budget. Tough gig coaching the Mariners. For mine Corica is being found out. Any decline in his imports or players like Grant and the wheels come right off.

 

[true believer]

He is solving a problem. We didnt replace Stens and our two local cheaparse players are not yet up to the standard (both are quality but flawed prospects). Niz is not the problem at all.

what problem did he solve ? 4 or 5 goals the cows will put on us if we play like we did tuesday ?

Mariners @ Glory Hole 15/3

He did not provide scintillating attacking runs or passes that led to goals. He played as a #6 and let Ollie do more of the distributing. However without Nizz sprinting back in defence, while the rest of the midfield jogged, after we turned over the ball in attack, I suspect we would have...

www.ccmfans.net

 

[bikinigirl]

<snip> effective width <snip>

. aha! thank you for the penny dropping moment

. my small footballing brain was struggling with the concept of width with people highlighting a lack of width as a problem. i saw the opposite ... we were going too wide, too quick ... so i saw too much width but the thing i was missing was that width can be inwards as well as outwards

. if i was to re-visit the formation i discussed earlier - which i shall now refer to it as the 'ineffective ring of attack'* and consider what is still going wrong and/or what may have changed from the start of the season ... most of these things are inter-related, they diminish confidence which then worsens any existing problems:

• slow ball movement - our width becomes ineffective
• shit-house passing (speed and accuracy) - our width becomes ineffective
• out-numbered and isolated in the middle - our width becomes ineffective
• when we are too slow and too wide and our passing is shit-house we constantly turn the ball over
• at the start of the season i saw Maxi turn every time he received the ball, quickly - which opened the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was turning into players, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• when Harry started to get more minutes he was different - he would run onto the ball with energy and look to play wide or forward, quickly - which opened up the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was being out-muscled on the ball, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• not only were we losing possession, our momentum was wrong as well. the defence was under immediate pressure and outnumbered - distribution became clearances and then the next wave came
• our wide midfield didn't adjust ... but our opposition has - increasing the pressure in the middle
• we went from having three players presenting for every ball to individuals being isolated
• if we did get the ball wide we became very linear - with no presence in the midfield it became a forward or back option which means only one passing lane needs to be protected by the opposition to kill any effective ball movement
• our highly skilled, highly experienced and highly paid forwards have started to realise this and are dropping deeper to open up the field in attempt to create some effective width ... but these are isolated incidences where they typically have a defender either stepping forward to intercept (as we try to cut across the ineffective ring) or right up their clacker to prevent them from doing anything other than return the ball to sender
• if we don't change things, we won't change things

. if we are going to continue with the current formation and playing style, we need to improve:

• passing speed and accuracy
• presence in the midfield
• interaction and coordination between our front men

. this will provide effective width - nothing new there, but it would be a change nonetheless

* the ineffective ring of attack is when we push up and wide too quickly without the ball. we often have a DM between the CBs, wide midfielders in the front line and wide backs pushed up too. this represents as a 'ring' with no more than one of our players inside it

 

[Insertnamehere]

. aha! thank you for the penny dropping moment

. my small footballing brain was struggling with the concept of width with people highlighting a lack of width as a problem. i saw the opposite ... we were going too wide, too quick ... so i saw too much width but the thing i was missing was that width can be inwards as well as outwards

. if i was to re-visit the formation i discussed earlier - which i shall now refer to it as the 'ineffective ring of attack'* and consider what is still going wrong and/or what may have changed from the start of the season ... most of these things are inter-related, they diminish confidence which then worsens any existing problems:

• slow ball movement - our width becomes ineffective
• shit-house passing (speed and accuracy) - our width becomes ineffective
• out-numbered and isolated in the middle - our width becomes ineffective
• when we are too slow and too wide and our passing is shit-house we constantly turn the ball over
• at the start of the season i saw Maxi turn every time he received the ball, quickly - which opened the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was turning into players, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• when Harry started to get more minutes he was different - he would run onto the ball with energy and look to play wide or forward, quickly - which opened up the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was being out-muscled on the ball, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• not only were we losing possession, our momentum was wrong as well. the defence was under immediate pressure and outnumbered - distribution became clearances and then the next wave came
• our wide midfield didn't adjust ... but our opposition has - increasing the pressure in the middle
• we went from having three players presenting for every ball to individuals being isolated
• if we did get the ball wide we became very linear - with no presence in the midfield it became a forward or back option which means only one passing lane needs to be protected by the opposition to kill any effective ball movement
• our highly skilled, highly experienced and highly paid forwards have started to realise this and are dropping deeper to open up the field in attempt to create some effective width ... but these are isolated incidences where they typically have a defender either stepping forward to intercept (as we try to cut across the ineffective ring) or right up their clacker to prevent them from doing anything other than return the ball to sender
• if we don't change things, we won't change things

. if we are going to continue with the current formation and playing style, we need to improve:

• passing speed and accuracy
• presence in the midfield
• interaction and coordination between our front men

. this will provide effective width - nothing new there, but it would be a change nonetheless

* the ineffective ring of attack is when we push up and wide too quickly without the ball. we often have a DM between the CBs, wide midfielders in the front line and wide backs pushed up too. this represents as a 'ring' with no more than one of our players inside it

Fkn BINGO!

Best analysis yet

 

[Wombat]

. aha! thank you for the penny dropping moment

. my small footballing brain was struggling with the concept of width with people highlighting a lack of width as a problem. i saw the opposite ... we were going too wide, too quick ... so i saw too much width but the thing i was missing was that width can be inwards as well as outwards

. if i was to re-visit the formation i discussed earlier - which i shall now refer to it as the 'ineffective ring of attack'* and consider what is still going wrong and/or what may have changed from the start of the season ... most of these things are inter-related, they diminish confidence which then worsens any existing problems:

• slow ball movement - our width becomes ineffective
• shit-house passing (speed and accuracy) - our width becomes ineffective
• out-numbered and isolated in the middle - our width becomes ineffective
• when we are too slow and too wide and our passing is shit-house we constantly turn the ball over
• at the start of the season i saw Maxi turn every time he received the ball, quickly - which opened the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was turning into players, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• when Harry started to get more minutes he was different - he would run onto the ball with energy and look to play wide or forward, quickly - which opened up the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was being out-muscled on the ball, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• not only were we losing possession, our momentum was wrong as well. the defence was under immediate pressure and outnumbered - distribution became clearances and then the next wave came
• our wide midfield didn't adjust ... but our opposition has - increasing the pressure in the middle
• we went from having three players presenting for every ball to individuals being isolated
• if we did get the ball wide we became very linear - with no presence in the midfield it became a forward or back option which means only one passing lane needs to be protected by the opposition to kill any effective ball movement
• our highly skilled, highly experienced and highly paid forwards have started to realise this and are dropping deeper to open up the field in attempt to create some effective width ... but these are isolated incidences where they typically have a defender either stepping forward to intercept (as we try to cut across the ineffective ring) or right up their clacker to prevent them from doing anything other than return the ball to sender
• if we don't change things, we won't change things

. if we are going to continue with the current formation and playing style, we need to improve:

• passing speed and accuracy
• presence in the midfield
• interaction and coordination between our front men

. this will provide effective width - nothing new there, but it would be a change nonetheless

* the ineffective ring of attack is when we push up and wide too quickly without the ball. we often have a DM between the CBs, wide midfielders in the front line and wide backs pushed up too. this represents as a 'ring' with no more than one of our players inside it

Not wrong.....throw in our fear to do anything WITH the ball, but turn back to the keeper, play it back or play it square. It's farkin horrible to watch but at least it's disciplined i guess.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

. aha! thank you for the penny dropping moment

. my small footballing brain was struggling with the concept of width with people highlighting a lack of width as a problem. i saw the opposite ... we were going too wide, too quick ... so i saw too much width but the thing i was missing was that width can be inwards as well as outwards

. if i was to re-visit the formation i discussed earlier - which i shall now refer to it as the 'ineffective ring of attack'* and consider what is still going wrong and/or what may have changed from the start of the season ... most of these things are inter-related, they diminish confidence which then worsens any existing problems:

• slow ball movement - our width becomes ineffective
• shit-house passing (speed and accuracy) - our width becomes ineffective
• out-numbered and isolated in the middle - our width becomes ineffective
• when we are too slow and too wide and our passing is shit-house we constantly turn the ball over
• at the start of the season i saw Maxi turn every time he received the ball, quickly - which opened the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was turning into players, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• when Harry started to get more minutes he was different - he would run onto the ball with energy and look to play wide or forward, quickly - which opened up the field and provided width ... but it took between one half to two games for the opposition to figure this out. soon he was being out-muscled on the ball, losing possession and/or being put on his arse with the obvious impact on confidence and form
• not only were we losing possession, our momentum was wrong as well. the defence was under immediate pressure and outnumbered - distribution became clearances and then the next wave came
• our wide midfield didn't adjust ... but our opposition has - increasing the pressure in the middle
• we went from having three players presenting for every ball to individuals being isolated
• if we did get the ball wide we became very linear - with no presence in the midfield it became a forward or back option which means only one passing lane needs to be protected by the opposition to kill any effective ball movement
• our highly skilled, highly experienced and highly paid forwards have started to realise this and are dropping deeper to open up the field in attempt to create some effective width ... but these are isolated incidences where they typically have a defender either stepping forward to intercept (as we try to cut across the ineffective ring) or right up their clacker to prevent them from doing anything other than return the ball to sender
• if we don't change things, we won't change things

. if we are going to continue with the current formation and playing style, we need to improve:

• passing speed and accuracy
• presence in the midfield
• interaction and coordination between our front men

. this will provide effective width - nothing new there, but it would be a change nonetheless

* the ineffective ring of attack is when we push up and wide too quickly without the ball. we often have a DM between the CBs, wide midfielders in the front line and wide backs pushed up too. this represents as a 'ring' with no more than one of our players inside it

Great post BG.

I'm glad Monty was very unhappy with that performance - gives hope. And I agree with Wombat, that's a breath of fresh air. But hard not to be worried. Clearly we have some problems.

• passing speed and accuracy
  
  - Yeah it's obviously a big deficiency for us. I love Olly, but I'm with Ancient when he suggests Niz is likely a better forward distributor of the ball than Olly — but sadly Olly just can't do what Nizz is doing for us right now either and we'd be getting murdered without him doing the work he's doing - his turn over rate and general cover play is f**king exceptional.
  
  Botttom line, without a ten and or better/faster wide players — especially when absent Miller— we're creating very little link play. And then when teams press, we don't have the passing range to play more direct and overcome it, and we look easily hemmed in.
  
  Ruon also used to play some great straight 30 metre passes last year which are now gone. And Faz is THE player constantly being put in the best position to begin our attack and or play a key final ball. Which he's clearly just not up to this yet. Not his fault. Great defender for 19. So for mine this is a tactical error.
  
  
• presence in the midfield-- did you mean as in numbers? Or TB's suggestion of Hall or Ruon at 6?
  
  Personally, I'm not convinced a midfield enforcer is our issue. Because we're not being out muscled, we're simply being bypassed all together which if fit, is a function of structure/organisation. And is a worse problem imho.
  
  What really bothers me, is that every single team (barring maybe roar) moves the ball through our side to the edge of the 18 yard box with absolute ease unless we're already back and set up. Meanwhile by god how hard do we have to work to get the ball to the edge of our opponents box.
  
  
• interaction and coordination between our front men
  
  Loss of Matty combing with Marcos has hurt us. Loss of Nisbet combining with Marcos has hurt us. Loss of Moresche combining with Marcos has hurt us. Loss of DDS combining with everyone has hurt us. And now the absence of Marcos and Cummings combining effectively at all tops it right off.
  
  Does anyone think Cummings is a hold up man? I don't. Does anyone think he's a subtle player with the footwork to combine for tight triangles and clever link play like Moresche that suits a player like Urena? I don't. I think he's a direct striker that needs people to get the ball to his feet anywhere in or around the box and he'll be a massive threat.
  
  It's a big problem to fix. Our two best attackers are very different kind of footballers with very different needs.
  
  Then add in slow ball movement and limited passing range... teams know all they have to do is press hard on DM's or CB's, close down our flanks quickly and at the other end keep two big CB's on Cummings or Urena and we'll get very little joy.
  
  Lot of great players in our squad - shame not to be a finals side, but we're seemingly at least three players short. I personally think Guarang was a massive loss and could have had a real break through season for us. None of our other bench players are impressing me.
  
  Wondering what's going on with Moresche.
  
  Mueller back will help, and so will Miller, but in our present formation, with our current issues, will it be enough?