Is it time to change formation?

[Wombat]

It's funny that we started the year thinking our defence would suffer and we have a wealth of attacking options but we are weak in attack and good in defence.

It's because our whole set up is defence minded. We park the bus more than any other side in HAL.

 

[Wombat]

No, I'm not serious, but I have fantasies about seeing this formation:
Reddy
Sains Griff
Storm Boy Hutch Rose
Wee Mac Macca Flower Duke Matty

It sure would scare the crap out of some defences.

A back two?? WTF.

Lol.....I remember playing for a team in Nthn Sydney and the capt (quality rep player but wild and young) wanted him and me to play as a back two as we only had 9 players for a early make up game.
Thankfully he listened and we settled on a back 3.
We still lost 1 nil.

 

[Wombat]

I'd like to see what Caceres could do on the wing. He has mad ball skills.

Worth looking at.

 

[Wombat]

Reddy
Storm boy. Tesco. Griff2. Rose.
Monty
Simon/hutch/fitz (pick one) Weemac
Flores

Duke. macca

Subs. JP. Siep. Caceras. Sterj. Either hutch/Fitz/Simon.

 

[12th player]

I'd like to see what Caceres could do on the wing. He has mad ball skills.

Imo ( I said it b4 and I'll continue to say it), Caceres is technically our best midfielder and footballer. Better than both Hutch and Mont in the ball playing department and better than Hutch in the work rate dept. The kid needs to be kept playing for self confidence and match fitness . He should be allowed to play more freely so that he can display his creativity. At the moment he's been told to play deep and is restricted as to how much he can push forward. He's not a wide playing mid. He will still perform there due to his class but he's more influential in the middle of the park. He has only played 2 x HAL games so far. 1O MINS V wsw, 82 mins v Glory where he was superb and 73mins last week where with very little he was still one of our best in a very poor team performance. He also played 1 x NYL game v the Roar (1 all ) and as expected he was the best player by miles. Hopefully Mossy will continue to play him and I'm sure that he will develop into one of our main players. One minor statistic is that whenever Caceres played HAL games ( last or present season), mariners haven't lost.

V the smurfs : 4-3-3 (4-3-1-2) ...................................Reddy................................

Roux...........Trent...............Zac or Griff..............Rose

............Caceres.............Mont.............Weemac...........

. ..................................Flores..........................................
.
.................Duke............................Fitzy......................

 

[dibo]

To play Wombat or 12th's formation (or any other two-striker formation) we're dropping Flores deep into the scrum to defend when we don't have possession.

For Wombat it's a block of

Roux Sainsbury Griffiths Rose
Simon/Hutch/Fitz (pick one) Montgomery Flores McGlinchey
Duke Macca

The particular genius* of this is the option of three completely different players for right midfield.

For 12th player, we're looking at

Roux Sainsbury Anderson/Griffiths Rose
Caceres Montgomery Flores McGlinchey
Duke Fitzgerald

In either case, I don't see the benefit (if we're trying to improve our attacking options) of saddling our most creative player with a bunch of defensive work.

This is unless of course you plan on either cycling Flores up and a striker back, which is overly complicated and leaves us vulnerable on transition because it takes time to manage *or* completely changing our defensive setup of the last 3-and-a-bit seasons.

It means as well that transitioning to attack, both are relying on Monty as the lynchpin player between the CBs as the FBs push up with midfield. This is something we will play at times (Hutch will be injured/suspended at some point) but there'll be a reason why Hutch has been the guy to play the role for the last 3-and-a-bit seasons so I'm pretty happy to presume they're happy with his play there.

I'm not sure this isn't change for change's sake when it's up forward that we're struggling because the chemistry of the front 4 has been off for a few weeks.

* Not genius.

 

[Gratis]

with McBreen in he could rotate with Flores as required

 

[dibo]

Rotating a striker for a 10 in defence is just a silly idea though - it takes time (which in transition is at a premium) and it means you pull the striker out of position and leave the 10 further advanced.

Why add the complexity? What benefit is there? Why is it better than just getting the combination right in our current formation?

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Imo ( I said it b4 and I'll continue to say it), Caceres is technically our best midfielder and footballer. Better than both Hutch and Mont in the ball playing department and better than Hutch in the work rate dept. The kid needs to be kept playing for self confidence and match fitness . He should be allowed to play more freely so that he can display his creativity. At the moment he's been told to play deep and is restricted as to how much he can push forward. He's not a wide playing mid. He will still perform there due to his class but he's more influential in the middle of the park. He has only played 2 x HAL games so far. 1O MINS V wsw, 82 mins v Glory where he was superb and 73mins last week where with very little he was still one of our best in a very poor team performance. He also played 1 x NYL game v the Roar (1 all ) and as expected he was the best player by miles. Hopefully Mossy will continue to play him and I'm sure that he will develop into one of our main players. One minor statistic is that whenever Caceres played HAL games ( last or present season), mariners haven't lost.

V the smurfs : 4-3-3 (4-3-1-2) ...................................Reddy................................

Roux...........Trent...............Zac or Griff..............Rose

............Caceres.............Mont.............Weemac...........

. ..................................Flores..........................................
.
.................Duke............................Fitzy......................

I keep reading here on the forum about how good Caceras.

Now while he may have torn the youth league apart, I am yet to see it in the top grade.

Last year he was supposedly overawed in the chances he got.

Last week I thought would be a good chance for him to show what he had.

I watched his play closely and must say I was very disappointed.

I did not see a better defensive work rate than Hutch, nor did I see too many great passes, to suggest he would be a better link than Monty.

In fact i thought his defensive effort was poor and thought Mossy left it far too long to replace him with Monty.

I wish him well and hope he can develop enough to fulfill the potential, he is a prospect, but still has a long way to go.

 

[Wombat]

To play Wombat or 12th's formation (or any other two-striker formation) we're dropping Flores deep into the scrum to defend when we don't have possession.

For Wombat it's a block of

Roux Sainsbury Griffiths Rose
Simon/Hutch/Fitz (pick one) Montgomery Flores McGlinchey
Duke Macca

The particular genius* of this is the option of three completely different players for right midfield.

For 12th player, we're looking at

Roux Sainsbury Anderson/Griffiths Rose
Caceres Montgomery Flores McGlinchey
Duke Fitzgerald

In either case, I don't see the benefit (if we're trying to improve our attacking options) of saddling our most creative player with a bunch of defensive work.

This is unless of course you plan on either cycling Flores up and a striker back, which is overly complicated and leaves us vulnerable on transition because it takes time to manage *or* completely changing our defensive setup of the last 3-and-a-bit seasons.

It means as well that transitioning to attack, both are relying on Monty as the lynchpin player between the CBs as the FBs push up with midfield. This is something we will play at times (Hutch will be injured/suspended at some point) but there'll be a reason why Hutch has been the guy to play the role for the last 3-and-a-bit seasons so I'm pretty happy to presume they're happy with his play there.

I'm not sure this isn't change for change's sake when it's up forward that we're struggling because the chemistry of the front 4 has been off for a few weeks.

* Not genius.

None are fully ideal but all good enough to do the job. Blind Freddy or even Dibo can see that what we are playing isn't working.....and to blame one of our best players (Flores) for others lack of quality or our stupid set up is pretty distasteful.

 

[dibo]

I'm hardly blaming Flores.

I'm saying we need to make a *minor* tweak to the shape.

We need to play a striker up front and two proper wide men around Flores and our front 4 will work.

Our back 6 of

Roux Sainsbury Griffiths Rose
Monty Hutch

works fine for me.

 

[Wombat]

Referring to your Elephant in the room nonsense.....also you keep naming teams with Hutch at the expense of Monty.

 

[dibo]

The elephant in the room is that we can't play a system that relies on dropping Flores in the midfield scrum. That's not the same as saying Flores is the problem. It's saying we need to limit our formation choices to ones that suit Hutch.

Hutch suits us, Monty (mostly) does too, but sometimes less than Hutch.

 

[Wombat]

The elephant in the room is that we can't play a system that relies on dropping Flores in the midfield scrum. That's not the same as saying Flores is the problem. It's saying we need to limit our formation choices to ones that suit Hutch.

Hutch suits us, Monty (mostly) does too, but sometimes less than Hutch.

You just hit the nail on the head. The problem IS our formation and the problem is it is designed around a limited player.
Flores also has some limitations but far better to design a formation around a player of his excellent quality than a player of average ability.

 

[dibo]

The coaching staff have disagreed with you for years, I'm on their side.

There are trophies on their side too.

 

[12th player]

I keep reading here on the forum about how good Caceras.

Now while he may have torn the youth league apart, I am yet to see it in the top grade. He did. He was the best player of that team that included Duke,Trent, Rogic and for a while Amini. I follow and watch all NYL games at Tuggerah now and at Pluim back then. If given continuity of game time like others less talented, you will see it in the top grade. No doubts.

Last year he was supposedly overawed in the chances he got. Chances? You must be kidding. He only played 60 mins v Scum. Whole team was shite, 30 mins v Roar where he did great and 69 mins v Heart in which he was our best player.He did a beautiful run, full of skills, leaving 4 players behind to assist Duke with mariner's winning goal. He got picked by Bossnich in the team of the week. Overawed ?

Last week I thought would be a good chance for him to show what he had. Did Hutch or any other player apart from Reddy and Trent showed what they have? We've got more experience and marquee players that did nothing. Yet, you only make a point of Caceres not performing. (?)

I watched his play closely and must say I was very disappointed. I also watched his and Hutcho's play closely and for the 73 mins that caceres was on the field this is what I saw with my own eyes ( not 442's). Tackles : Cac =11 ( he left Traore crying ), Hutch = 0 ( not good enough for a def mid). Ball contact: Cac = 50 times, Hutch = 35 times. Good passes : Cac = 49, Hutch =33. Note: 22 short passes when he drops deep in between full backs and 1 directly to opposition which created a counter attack for MV. I was disappointed with the team performace and even more with the so called experienced ones.

I did not see a better defensive work rate than Hutch, nor did I see too many great passes, to suggest he would be a better link than Monty. Refer to above. He will be a better link than Hutch. Monty's work rate will give Caceres more freedom to create. Last week Caceres had to do both his and Hutcho's work.

In fact i thought his defensive effort was poor and thought Mossy left it far too long to replace him with Monty. I believe Mossy left 9 out 11 players to far. Most notorious : Hutch.

I wish him well and hope he can develop enough to fulfill the potential, he is a prospect, but still has a long way to go.

I also wish him the best. The only way he will develop and demonstrate his full potential is by playing. Give him as many chances on the field as others who haven't performed since the comp started and still get to play.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I also wish him the best. The only way he will develop and demonstrate his full potential is by playing. Give him as many chances on the field as others who haven't performed since the comp started and still get to play.

Thanks for all the info Mrs C.

 

[12th player]

Thanks for all the info Mrs C.

Glad to help you Mrs H.

 

[Capt. Awesome]

Great game on the weekend. Did anyone else notice how central WeeMac was playing. He seemed to play more a second number 10 to Flores. Duke played a more tradition winger out wide and more forward.

Seemed to work quite well. Be interesting to see if this was just a tactic for the Sydney game or permanent.

Comments?

 

[Big Al]

Great game on the weekend. Did anyone else notice how central WeeMac was playing. He seemed to play more a second number 10 to Flores. Duke played a more tradition winger out wide and more forward.

Seemed to work quite well. Be interesting to see if this was just a tactic for the Sydney game or permanent.

Comments?

Yes noticed it very early & it was effective.

Yet no one that I can think of on these forums thought of it.

Does the new assistant get the credit or Mossy.

Seip back in was interesting move & he played his best game for us. Might be settling in..