"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[JoyfulPenguin]

The light on the hill has gone out. For all America's faults they have at least in the past put different visions forward for a better future. I have thoroughly disagreed with various US presidents and leaders but they were at least trying to improve their nation and the world in their own way.

Trump doesn't offer a vision of the future. His supporters and his voters didn't want one. Just to destroy and damage America's and the world's institutions as much as possible. He pays no respect to their constitution, arguably the greatest and most enduring piece of political and legal poetry in existence.

The average American voter is deservedly angry, their interests have been traded away again and again. Democracy is built on compromise, those in power either economically or politically haven't compromised in generations. But destroying the very institutions designed to protect and improve their nation and the world is not the answer.

Most Americans have decided that it cannot get worse, that the institutions built to protect them are there to damage them. When these fundamental safeguards are gone they may understand their mistake.

The old world is dying, the new world struggles to be born, now is the time of monsters.

 

[true believer]

the majority of white people knew that a vote for trump would be a vote against black people, brown people, asian people, queer people, trans people,
disabled people, poor people, black and brown immigrants, palestinians, children, the rights of women, unions, literature, art, the environment, and democracy

"now is the time of monsters"

 

[true believer]

 

[Hello Sailor]

Not solely. Certainly exacerbated under Dems control.

My take on your clips.

City that banned police This was a MAYORAL decision. Drugs seem to be the basis of the problem here. Something that has been problematic under Republican AND Democratic Federal governments.

Ten States where homelessness out of control.
For some homelessness is a choice. Other factors given are drugs pandemic the economy gambling pleasant weather urbanization cost of living mental illness, generous welfare programmes [Dem Oregon]. That multiple governements have struggled with the homless problem..

Republican govt was elected in 2014 and then in 2018 Mass then Dem in 2022. This clip isnt dated but it refers grants to Afghanistan the previous year and homeless rate is up 20% in the last decade [a republican period].

I gave up watching half way thru your second clip. If you cant support your argument with clear succinct evidence you don’t have a very good argument. During the time I wasted watching this it was clear that these problems exist/ed under BOTH political colours, and that the political impacts, where they exists, are those of state and city policies. There was no claim that the Federal democratic party policies under Biden/Harris created or exacerbated these social problems. I expected better from you Wombat.

 

[booney]

Unless the Democrats can win back the working class( white,black and Hispanic) they will spend a long period out of government.They took the working class vote for granted,especially Hispanic men,whom they thought would sympathise with the illegal immigrants( the vast majority are from Latin America) who Trump demonised.However those Hispanic men who are already American citizens did not want to be put into the same boat as the illegals.Added to high food,rent and other cost of living expenses they felt Trump was the better choice.I might add there was probably a degree of misogyny in the mix as many Hispanic men still are influenced by the " machismo" attitude-therefore a female candidate did not cut the mustard.

The powerful Christian lobby was a factor and though Harris tried to woo female voters with fears that the Christian anti-abortion people were going to take away their rights to control their bodies many women voted for Trump,possibly figuring that their financial situation was more pressing.Away from the big cities many Americans are very conservative and often religious,including many of the black and Hispanic communities,so abortion rights were not popular with them.

Young males feel that they have been left behind as young women are outdoing them in education and job income.Many feel that the Democrats placed women's issues in the forefront and that they are becoming second class.Again having a female candidate would have reinforced these attitudes.

It should not be forgotten that Trump has been working towards this election ever since he lost in 2020 while Harris had only three months to get her campaign going.As she was Biden's vice president she was seen to be part of the problem that many Americans felt was happening in their country-high cost of living,rampant and uncontrolled illegal migration and lots of money being spent on propping up Ukraine.A huge misinformation/disinformation exercise principally by Elon Musk and the Murdoch press helped stoke these fears .

Another factor is that the Democrats are seen as the "woke"party-espousing LGBTQI and transgender causes-which again goes against the grain for conservative,religious and working class people.The Democrats are increasingly seen as the party of the urban elites and were not able to shed this image.Trump made fun of the " wokeness " of his opponents and painted Harris as the epitome of this culture.Even though he told lies and is a convicted felon many people did not give a fig about this and his talk about the woke culture and his anti climate change rhetoric resonated with much of the electorate.

So lots of soul searching and hard truths need to be the lot of the Democrats.Of course Trump will be 82 when when he finishes his term so unless he can change Amendment 22 ( which limits him to two terms) he will be gone but of course JD Vance will be there to put his hand up.This presupposes that democracy has not gone to hell in USA and that Trump has somehow become an American dictator( he is already an American dickhead) in the interim.Interesting times lie ahead.

 

[Wombat]

the majority of white people knew that a vote for trump would be a vote against black people, brown people, asian people, queer people, trans people,
disabled people, poor people, black and brown immigrants, palestinians, children, the rights of women, unions, literature, art, the environment, and democracy

"now is the time of monsters"

Interesting that her Black Vote was down 3% and her Brown vote down 15%. Nice rhetoric.

You can put lipstick on a pig.............but normal decent people voted against the sickness the left have been inflicting on the civilised world.

 

[Wombat]

My take on your clips.

City that banned police This was a MAYORAL decision. Drugs seem to be the basis of the problem here. Something that has been problematic under Republican AND Democratic Federal governments.

Ten States where homelessness out of control.
For some homelessness is a choice. Other factors given are drugs pandemic the economy gambling pleasant weather urbanization cost of living mental illness, generous welfare programmes [Dem Oregon]. That multiple governements have struggled with the homless problem..

Republican govt was elected in 2014 and then in 2018 Mass then Dem in 2022. This clip isnt dated but it refers grants to Afghanistan the previous year and homeless rate is up 20% in the last decade [a republican period].

I gave up watching half way thru your second clip. If you cant support your argument with clear succinct evidence you don’t have a very good argument. During the time I wasted watching this it was clear that these problems exist/ed under BOTH political colours, and that the political impacts, where they exists, are those of state and city policies. There was no claim that the Federal democratic party policies under Biden/Harris created or exacerbated these social problems. I expected better from you Wombat.

Sorry HS. I didn't really research those videos. They took me 10 mins to find. I couldn't actually find the ones i wanted to show......they have probably been taken down.

 

[pjennings]

Sorry HS. I didn't really research those videos. They took me 10 mins to find. I couldn't actually find the ones i wanted to show......they have probably been taken down.

The youtuber has been discredited in Canada to start with. He uses AI to generate his videos and images to support his narratve

 

[Wombat]

Unless the Democrats can win back the working class( white,black and Hispanic) they will spend a long period out of government.They took the working class vote for granted,especially Hispanic men,whom they thought would sympathise with the illegal immigrants( the vast majority are from Latin America) who Trump demonised.However those Hispanic men who are already American citizens did not want to be put into the same boat as the illegals.Added to high food,rent and other cost of living expenses they felt Trump was the better choice.I might add there was probably a degree of misogyny in the mix as many Hispanic men still are influenced by the " machismo" attitude-therefore a female candidate did not cut the mustard.

The powerful Christian lobby was a factor and though Harris tried to woo female voters with fears that the Christian anti-abortion people were going to take away their rights to control their bodies many women voted for Trump,possibly figuring that their financial situation was more pressing.Away from the big cities many Americans are very conservative and often religious,including many of the black and Hispanic communities,so abortion rights were not popular with them.

Young males feel that they have been left behind as young women are outdoing them in education and job income.Many feel that the Democrats placed women's issues in the forefront and that they are becoming second class.Again having a female candidate would have reinforced these attitudes.

It should not be forgotten that Trump has been working towards this election ever since he lost in 2020 while Harris had only three months to get her campaign going.As she was Biden's vice president she was seen to be part of the problem that many Americans felt was happening in their country-high cost of living,rampant and uncontrolled illegal migration and lots of money being spent on propping up Ukraine.A huge misinformation/disinformation exercise principally by Elon Musk and the Murdoch press helped stoke these fears .

Another factor is that the Democrats are seen as the "woke"party-espousing LGBTQI and transgender causes-which again goes against the grain for conservative,religious and working class people.The Democrats are increasingly seen as the party of the urban elites and were not able to shed this image.Trump made fun of the " wokeness " of his opponents and painted Harris as the epitome of this culture.Even though he told lies and is a convicted felon many people did not give a fig about this and his talk about the woke culture and his anti climate change rhetoric resonated with much of the electorate.

So lots of soul searching and hard truths need to be the lot of the Democrats.Of course Trump will be 82 when when he finishes his term so unless he can change Amendment 22 ( which limits him to two terms) he will be gone but of course JD Vance will be there to put his hand up.This presupposes that democracy has not gone to hell in USA and that Trump has somehow become an American dictator( he is already an American dickhead) in the interim.Interesting times lie ahead.

More truthful than most.


Harris was demonised by many. Some were even claiming she was Demonic!! There are 200 million Christians in US are she was stupid enough to scoff at them.....oh and telling people she would murder home intruders and dropping the F Bomb is not presenting yourself as fit for office.

 

[Ironbark]

.....oh and telling people she would murder home intruders and dropping the F Bomb is not presenting yourself as fit for office.

Compared to the kinds of things Trump said, over and over

 

[Wombat]

Compared to the kinds of things Trump said, over and over

Trump is extremely eccentric. That's how bad Biden and Harris were. He was considered the more sensible and pragmatic of the two.
At least its the end of Obama's control of the Dems and they can rebuild.

 

[greenlig]

Trump won the moment he stood up, fist raised, blood spattered. Dems were only going to win by a miracle but proceeded to play the absolutely shittest version of the cards they held by not getting Biden out earlier and not reading the room.

I’m not so sure democracy/the US is dead. It’s only 4 years (less than the mariners shit era), Trump has noticeably moved towards the centre (purely to get power, but silver linings), and it’s still in the interest of the 346,088,503 other yanks to stay at the top of the pile. Regardless of the shit I’m sure we’re in for, those balances give me some comfort.

Incidentally, I was at a Halloween party in Austin a couple of weeks ago. Ranting with some guy about how dope it must have been to go inside a cathedral for the first time as a poor little French farmer in 1460 (I was drunk, he was dressed as a friar). Out of nowhere we go well off-piste, he mentions being excited about trump coming back. Oh really?? Why? I’m genuinely curious, love finding out why people believe things that are turbo at odds with my sphere. Maybe there’s some enlightenment to be had? Is there something deeper in this guy’s day to day struggle that gives him perspective I lack? Could it be that I haven-

“He’s going to bring back pride to the white race.”

Never met a real life nazi before! He certainly kept Austin weird.

 

[true believer]

Interesting that her Black Vote was down 3% and her Brown vote down 15%. Nice rhetoric.

You can put lipstick on a pig.............but normal decent people voted against the sickness the left have been inflicting on the civilised world.

and 802 billionaires cheered .they made a 57% increase in income .last time trump gave them 1.5 trillion of tax payers money .
all you have to do to win an election is scare the stupid people.

 

[pjennings]

I’m not so sure democracy/the US is dead. It’s only 4 years (less than the mariners shit era), Trump has noticeably moved towards the centre (purely to get power, but silver linings), and it’s still in the interest of the 346,088,503 other yanks to stay at the top of the pile. Regardless of the shit I’m sure we’re in for, those balances give me some comfort.

Genuine question - how have you seen him move towards the centre?

 

[Hello Sailor]

Unless the Democrats can win back the working class( white,black and Hispanic) they will spend a long period out of government.They took the working class vote for granted,especially Hispanic men,whom they thought would sympathise with the illegal immigrants( the vast majority are from Latin America) who Trump demonised.However those Hispanic men who are already American citizens did not want to be put into the same boat as the illegals.Added to high food,rent and other cost of living expenses they felt Trump was the better choice.I might add there was probably a degree of misogyny in the mix as many Hispanic men still are influenced by the " machismo" attitude-therefore a female candidate did not cut the mustard.

The powerful Christian lobby was a factor and though Harris tried to woo female voters with fears that the Christian anti-abortion people were going to take away their rights to control their bodies many women voted for Trump,possibly figuring that their financial situation was more pressing.Away from the big cities many Americans are very conservative and often religious,including many of the black and Hispanic communities,so abortion rights were not popular with them.

Young males feel that they have been left behind as young women are outdoing them in education and job income.Many feel that the Democrats placed women's issues in the forefront and that they are becoming second class.Again having a female candidate would have reinforced these attitudes.

It should not be forgotten that Trump has been working towards this election ever since he lost in 2020 while Harris had only three months to get her campaign going.As she was Biden's vice president she was seen to be part of the problem that many Americans felt was happening in their country-high cost of living,rampant and uncontrolled illegal migration and lots of money being spent on propping up Ukraine.A huge misinformation/disinformation exercise principally by Elon Musk and the Murdoch press helped stoke these fears .

Another factor is that the Democrats are seen as the "woke"party-espousing LGBTQI and transgender causes-which again goes against the grain for conservative,religious and working class people.The Democrats are increasingly seen as the party of the urban elites and were not able to shed this image.Trump made fun of the " wokeness " of his opponents and painted Harris as the epitome of this culture.Even though he told lies and is a convicted felon many people did not give a fig about this and his talk about the woke culture and his anti climate change rhetoric resonated with much of the electorate.

So lots of soul searching and hard truths need to be the lot of the Democrats.Of course Trump will be 82 when when he finishes his term so unless he can change Amendment 22 ( which limits him to two terms) he will be gone but of course JD Vance will be there to put his hand up.This presupposes that democracy has not gone to hell in USA and that Trump has somehow become an American dictator( he is already an American dickhead) in the interim.Interesting times lie ahead.

OR
.........................................................................................................................Like................................................................................... Hilary..............................................................................................................................................it..................................................... was........................................................................................................................................................... wearing a pant suit.

Maybe the next woman to be nominated should wear a dress.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

..but normal decent people voted

Your "normal decent people " voted for a felon, a paedophile, a sexual assaulter (and alleged rapist), and someone who sexualised and talks about dating his own daughter.

Hard to see what's normal and decent about being in favour of all that.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

and dropping the F Bomb is not presenting yourself as fit for office.

Lol,don't pretend anybody cares about appearing fit for office after the many things Trump has said. What an absurd claim. Talking about a President who stays up to 3am abusing people on Twitter or calling his opponents names on television. Not to mention him mocking the reporter with cerebral palsy when it all started.

Oh, but Kamala swore therefore she's not Presidential.

What absolute bullshit.

 

[booney]

Would Abraham Lincoln or Dwight Eisenhower recognise the Republican Party as it is now under the control of Trump and his acolytes-Steve Bannon,Tucker Carlson,Susan Wiles, etc?Also bankrolled by the obnoxious Musk and other techo billionaires who will benefit from Donny's tax cuts while the American and global economy go to hell.The Murdoch media and that pit of misinformation X are the other pillars of Donny and his merry men( not too many women) and the Trump Republicans will get such favourable treatment from these compromised sources.

 

[Ironbark]

 

[Hello Sailor]

Would Abraham Lincoln or Dwight Eisenhower recognise the Republican Party as it is now under the control of Trump and his acolytes-Steve Bannon,Tucker Carlson,Susan Wiles, etc?Also bankrolled by the obnoxious Musk and other techo billionaires who will benefit from Donny's tax cuts while the American and global economy go to hell.The Murdoch media and that pit of misinformation X are the other pillars of Donny and his merry men( not too many women) and the Trump Republicans will get such favourable treatment from these compromised sources.

Re musk.
I am worried that policy decisions such as an Australian request for a tariff exemption will be tied to our Govt not taking on the social media giants