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"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

MagpieMariner

Well-Known Member
In my experience over the last 50 years, the Australian people will vote for the party they perceive to be most in the centre. Union links or business links don't matter much. Last election Labor was perceived to be too far left and incompetent to boot. It wouldn't surprise me if next election they will perceive the Libs to be moving too far right.
 

eenfish

Well-Known Member
Tens of thousands of people protest country wide, the Herald Sun runs one small article about it and focuses on negative placards directed at Tony Abbott rather than fleshing out the wide spread anger at the budget. Then, a few pages later, Andrew Bolt's paper space starts to explain how the Labor and Greens party are attempting to start a class war, ignoring the fact that it was the Liberal's budget that was heavy handedly directed at the middle to low income peoples.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Eenfish

The media can be a funny beast ... last week News ran a poll on the budget i.e do you like it, better or worst off etc... past polls have had in the order of 18K hits and close to a 50 / 50 spilt ... last weeks poll had within a couple of days over 170K hits and was running 68% against the budget...

These kinda swings and reactions tell the editors what will get reactions.... my bet Truthful's media support i.e. he can do no wrong is over ...
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
yeah middy .news limited would
never do push polling.

You miss my point, the poll was very similar if not the same as has been run for a few years... two huge differences the hits they received where about 900% more than normal, and the spilt instead of around 50 / 50 was 68 / 32 ....

The ALP back in power at the next election if he continues in the manner he has... Truthful is going to or arguably has lost the trust of the country ...

Out of the Blues decisions like ... Knights & Dames does not help.

Broken promises in things like...
Car Industry
Manufacturing in general
ABC
SBS
CSIRO
Budget measures ...


Turning back the boats will only buy so much goodwill ...
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Truthful is starting to loose the media ... will be interesting to see if the pools remain this low if he remains PM me thinks some are starting to look at who could replace him...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
A couple of days before the last election, I wrote an angry post:

The country's in good shape.

2.6% GDP growth, 2.4% CPI, 2.5% cash rate, unemployment 5.7%.

If that's what Tony Abbott calls an economic crisis, he should reflect on the fact that there would be a queue around the block of countries asking for the Labor Party to send their economies into similar crisis.

The Liberals make a big deal of election mandates; how Labor didn't have one to introduce a carbon price and how Labor has to respect the Liberals' mandate to remove it should they win, without ever considering that they failed to respect Labor's mandate to introduce a carbon price after the 2007 election.

Instead they run around talking about Julia Gillard's supposed lie to the people.

The problem with this election is it's not about what's going on in the country, it's about what's going on in people's heads.

The Liberals have repeated and repeated and repeated a series of poisonous lies that seem to have paralysed the electorate.

People have in their head that the country's in crisis and the simple facts of the matter don't seem to make any difference. Tony Abbott and News Limited have run around repeating the doublethink* for long enough that it's become true in people's heads.

They've systematically distorted and manipulated to the point that it seems the electorate can't even see what's in front of their faces.

Labor for years tried to simply respond with methodical policy and explanation. The carbon price was explained and explained and explained. The circumstances that led to its introduction were explained and explained and explained.

It was introduced with barely a ripple across the country in spite of the fantastic and terrible predictions of the Opposition and remains in place having barely any impact on the lives of the average voter (most voters are if anything *overcompensated* by tax cuts and benefit increases) while emissions fell 7% in its first year and yet the Opposition still refer to it as a 'toxic tax' that does nothing.

It's a lie. Pure and simple, it's a deliberate lie, ignoring the simple reality of the situation to ensure you won't vote Labor.

Worse, they've been talking about a how they really believe in climate change, and they'll act through their Direct Action plan to reduce emissions by the same amount as Labor for less cost and with no carbon tax. This week they've admitted that it can't meet its emissions targets for the stated cost, but they're capping the spend.

"If tackling climate change costs too much, then too bad, Abbott told the National Press Club on Monday."

So they lied all along - their plan can't match Labor's but they've told the big lie for long enough that it barely matters now.

The Liberals complain about Labor's $70 billion cuts claim, but they're the Liberals' own numbers from a leaked paper from their razor gang back in 2011:

MARIUS BENSON:
It’s likely the Treasury will also have a swing at your plans announced by Joe Hockey to cut $70 billion from public spending and to cut 12,000 positions from the public service can you clarify is that opposition policy now?
ANDREW ROBB:
Well it is opposition policy to put a freeze on public servants appointments now that will mean over a period of two years that by not reinstating those that leave the public service there will be 12,000 less positions that’s correct.

Secondly, the $70 billion is an estimate of the sort of challenge that we will have if we are to get this government position back to living within its means. This government, the $70 billion just highlights how wantonly this government has been living beyond its means.

That’s the sort of order of magnitude which over four years which is quite achievable when you consider that this government has spent $150 billion more than it has raised over the last four years. And we are saying that we need to identify up to $70 billion over the next four years if we are to get this economy back in some sort of shape that we can be, so that we can weather any economic storm that might come at us from other parts of the world.

Labor's not making this up. The Libs have already announced $40 billion in cuts, they're holding back on this 'Commission of Audit' that they'll run after the election. When Howard ran a commission of audit in 1996, 60,000 public servants were sacked. When Newman ran a commission of audit in Queensland, there were 14,000 jobs cut.

Does anybody seriously believe that there won't be another $30 billion found by the Commission of Audit with thousands more jobs slashed?

But they call Labor liars over and over, while telling the biggest whoppers of the lot.

But we're going to be stuck with them, because they've lied and distorted and misled for so long that there's nothing Labor can say to change voters' minds.

In trying everything they can, they sound more and more shrill and desperate and all the Libs need to do is keep repeating the lies up to polling day and they're home free.

And anything bad that happens in the first year after they get in they'll blame on Labor.

The venom has done the trick and the prey is limp.

But Uncle Rupert gets what he wants, and Tony Abbott will get to ride around in the car with the little flag on the front, and all will be right with the world.


* To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed...
I'm struggling to see much I got wrong.
 

MagpieMariner

Well-Known Member
Truthful is starting to loose the media ... will be interesting to see if the pools remain this low if he remains PM me thinks some are starting to look at who could replace him...
This sounds kinda familiar...
At least the Ruddster & the Red Roughie both lasted longer before the knives started to be sharpened...
Didn't he promise a stable government? Could be another broken promise?
 

true believer

Well-Known Member
well lucy wicks at graham park .im surprised she could find the ground .she forgot her manly jersey to.

10303799_804153066270592_987937707611490374_n.jpg
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
D

Re your angry pre election post above...

The last government on a number of fronts had lost the people and although not a crisis the budget was and still is a concern... thus we changed government by a fairly large vote... the ongoing NSW state ALP issues leading up to the election did not help neither...

What Truthful has done in a matter of months is to make identical mistakes to the Dud and Julia G .... in that his government seems to be run out of his office and by a select few... further he has broken many promises ...

His party seems in turmoil right now with members openly questioning his statements in things like SPC .. recently a member saying how can you create a tax to develop medical research and pull money out of every other science research area under Commonwealth funding.

I am totally pissed ... somehow from Fraser to Hawk / Keating to Keating to Howard / Costello we had good government and a couple of periods under Hawk / Keating & Howard / Costello when needed reforms where made and often very clever solutions where developed... Costello in particular was brilliant in his applications of Tax Offsets to assist the poor ... Wage price freeze / GST / Capital Gains / Super / APPRA / floating of the dollar / FBT / Franking company dividends .... I could go on...

From Duddy to Truthful the government has been poor...

Me thinks if the polls don't turn ... the Libs will be forced to dump Truthful however if the right rump again controls policy and who ... then it is the ALP again i.e union and NSW right wing ... Fat Tony looks like he could take a big slice of the Libs vote in the same way the greens have taken much of the ALP vote...

The real sad part is as I see it both the governments wasted their time and their own inept management and the various PM's seemingly wanting to control all messages has lead to much inefficiency and the growth left and right parties with the middle often being ignored ... further debate seems to have gone and all sides are shouting slogans at each other ...

In summary you are in part right ... but to say the last government should have stayed IMO is foolish .... however the way Truthful is going I predict a number of right wing parties to emerge and that IMO is very sad ... We seem to heading in a European direction where a number of parties will make up government ...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
It's a revenue problem that we have, not a spending problem. If this government and the last were bringing in what the Howard Government was bringing in, the budget would be comfortably in surplus.

[Note - stolen from @BernardKeane's twitter feed]

BonmX0wCEAArBCq.jpg


If you're wondering why the budget swung so hard into deficit, look at the gap between tax receipts in 2007/8 and 2010/11.

Numbers that went into the graph are below, and they're taken straight from Joe Hockey's own budget papers:

BonqoqpCIAAvzBS.jpg


From 2007/8 when Rudd took power, we dropped to 21.7%, then 20.1%, then 20.0%, 20.9%, 21.4%, 21.6%...

Tax revenues tanked and are recovering slowly. If we imagine for a moment that the Libs are right and there was no GFC, and there was no corresponding tanking in revenue, across the 6 years from 2008/9 to 2013/14 (the years when Labor handed down budgets) the Commonwealth Government would have taken over $200b more tax revenue.

$24b in 2008/9
$45b in 2009/10
$51b in 2010/11
$40b in 2011/12
$34b in 2012/13
$32b in 2013/14

We would've been well into surplus by now.

It's worth noting that the GDP continued growing. Had we tried to keep the budget in surplus by either not applying stimulus or by hiking taxes, we likely would have done more harm than good.

We'd have had the handbrake on the economy leading to higher unemployment, lower growth, lower revenues, higher welfare payments...

Even if the commonwealth budget stayed in surplus, it would have cost ordinary people and ordinary businesses jobs and income. They would have got into surplus by putting ordinary people and ordinary businesses into deficit.

The government would have you believe that the only thing that matters is the commonwealth budget bottom line. They're wrong.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
It's a revenue problem that we have, not a spending problem. If this government and the last were bringing in what the Howard Government was bringing in, the budget would be comfortably in surplus.


Its both ... however revenue is by far the biggest problem...

The debate needed as I see it is as follows...

The government provides services, in broad terms, Health, School, Police in a variety of forms ie ASIC as well, Army, build things like roads ...etc...

The Cost to government is two fold one lot of cost to pay for ongoing everyday things and the other cost to build things like roads power plants etc... lets call this citizen wants....

The governments collect tax and other levies .... called revenue...

The debate is Citizen Wants are Greater than revenue ...

To solve this a government has few options...

1] Raise Taxes
2] Cut Costs
3] Increase business turnover and this in of itself will create extra tax.
4] Sell assets.

The debate that is not happening is what as a community do we expect government to do .... having determined this the government then says to achieve this we need ???? revenue and to get the extra revenue we need to do one of the four things above lets discuss ... the answer maybe reduce what we expect government to do ... however Truthful & the Dud seem not much into the lets work this out like Hawk did or argue the point for three years like Howard did with the GST ... or like Keating did in the ACTU meeting he went to ...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
So it's the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings today this week. Tony Abbott put out a statement in which he spent 56 words talking about D-Day, and 184 words talking rubbish about things like 'making investment more attractive by scrapping the carbon tax and the mining tax, cutting 50,000 pages of red tape and ending the “analysis paralysis” on major projects'.

Earlier this year the Libs used condolence motions for Arthur Gietzelt and Ariel Sharon to have political and personal digs too.

There is no moment that he sees as being above political opportunism, except in this case it seems that he (or someone in his office realised that they'd overstepped, and pulled the statement from the PM's website). Crikey kept a copy of it though, and there's a video still online too.

Edited to amend my date f**kup - story stands.
 
Last edited:

true believer

Well-Known Member
months back I stopped and listened to clive palmer . I had always considered him a buffoon. that cashed in on
white shoe brigade times in queensland . what he was saying was working class music to the ears .
I told the wife "listen to what this guys saying" she agreed "very clever" .
"was that the same buffoon from the fold coast" indeed it was.
this is the guy that had aligned himself with the debunked climate denialist Ian pilmer who's book
"heaven and earth" has over400 "inaccuracy's , falsehoods , damn lies " this book is tony abbotts climate change hand book.
yet once again palmer appears with al gore .. Andrew bolt was scathing (it was gold)

I think palmer is still a shiffy bastard . but he's a bloody clever one . with abbott being beyond shambolic.
does the clive for pm loom large . ummm watch this space .
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Gotta admit the PUP's are getting in the headlines ... I have a feeling of unease about them even more than the Greens ... at least the Greens stand for something and you can reasonably predict how they will vote ... well err maybe not re the fuel tax they wanted then decided the money from the tax could not go to new roads HHHmmmm ... anyway the well hung PUP's are ????

AS for Blinky is it his skill or Truthfull's lack of skill hat has so turned the polls... me thinks there is a small possibility the Libs may change leaders and if we rule out MT [he has to many enemies] and Joe he is almost as unpopular as Truthful .. Julie Bishop HHHMMmmm akin to the Rudd take over ...
 

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