HMAS Adelaide - Yay or Nay?

[Bex]

Hey guys Im somewhat opposed to it.

First of I am no hippy. But my livelihood depends on Avoca beach staying the way that it is, a pristine beach with good surf conditions. I dont agree with most of the protest arguments but I do agree with some.

Good to hear another side of the story. I must say, I do wonder what the other side is really thinking beyond the environmental disaster rhetoric.

Like everyone on the coast I was really excited about this ship, i had never been scuba diving but was really keen to give it a go.
Just on some of your points, the top of the boat will be 8m deep (though I dont think it will affect shipping cos it will be on gps, nor will it affect tides. It will affect beach sediment transport and will effect wave re faction this is agreed upon by every coastal engineer that has looked at the project though they do disagree on the degree of refraction).

Its also not 3km of the beach, only 1.8 Km.
The report says 6 jobs will be created by 3000 divers coming to the reef every year. 3500 people use Avoca beach everyday during the holiday periods so our beach is our income and our life.

Yes, 8m below the surface is fairly shallow. I think that is much more a danger than anything else I've seen. Presumably, steps are in place to prevent a shipping disaster.

3000 more tourists per year is a step in the right direction for the local economy. I presume the 6 jobs you mention are directly related such as diving tours etc. However, there will definitely be flow on spending from the 3000 extra tourists including accomodation and shopping.

To explain the protests >

It all started in January when we found out the boat would be of Avoca and not Terrigal. Panic within the community ensued. Why were we lied to about location ect ect

The Avoca site was never a secret and if Avoca residents had been less self centred it would have come as no surprise. Honestly, are the residents of Avoca that self centred that creating a supposed "environmental disaster" and "toxic wasteland" of Terrigal would invoke absolutely no reaction from them? Furthermore, it may be 1.8km from Avoca, but it is only 1.4km from the Skillion therefore its not misleading to quote Terrigal as the site of the sinking.

Besides, the possibility of the sinking happening at Avoca has been in the public domain since 2006.
http://express-advocate-gosford.whereilive.com.au/news/story/avoca-nominated-as-site-for-ship-scuttling-in-2006/

It got worse when our board riders committee went to a meeting in late January to ask what the impact would be. The coastal engineer said it probably wont change the beach but his testing was basic, they also said they could not confirm whether there could be adverse side effects from PCB's.... everyone freaked out.

They then did further studies and the general conclusion from alot of international experts was that this ship was allot more dangerous than the government was making it out to be. Once again panic ensued.  You can see how this got out of hand very fast.

I really do feel sorry for the people that have spent so much time and money into getting this ship sunk, however a simple letter drop by the council (like the one they did explaining the parking and traffic delays there will be on Friday and Saturday) about how Avoca was chosen as the location, explaining where the ship will be sunk and what impacts there will be would have helped them and the local community. Instead of creating a panic environment and a rushed decision in the courts the people who opposed it could have had their say, more testing could have been done and a logical conclusion could have been met.

Hopefully the ship will be sunk, but further off shore so it can be guaranteed there will be no impact then everyone will win.

Nobody could conclusively say there would be absolutely no effect even if they spent a fortune on the latest computer modelling. I wouldn't mind betting though that whatever effect eventuates will be orders of magnitude less noticable than the effect of the storms that caused Pasha Bulker to run aground.

Honestly though, you've only got to apply a little bit of logic to this to see its not a significant issue. At 1800m from the beach and 1400m from The Skillion, the obstruction created by this 139m long ship is minimal. Particularly considering that swells are typically from the north-east or sometimes from the south-east.

Alternatively, you may wish to ask the engineers about the effect on the beach of the dozens of coal ships parked off the coast (which are typically more than 200m long) at any given time because its probably a similar effect to the sinking of HMAS Adelaide.

 

[jiggles]

6 Jobs?

6?

Right.

Not to mention the possibility for NEW businesses to start up due to the need of food outlets, accomodation and entertainment for incoming tourists.

Far more than 6.

 

[goingtoadisco]

Poko- Just quoting the goverment report. Im no expert.

Its actualy storms like the pasha that they are worries about. Im no expert but these storms cause super rips which cause the sand from the beach to be flushed out to see then back in again it goes on and on ect ect. Also one of the scientist quoted on the goverment report used the latest graphing and said the beach would be reduced by 5M.

Trust me im annoyed to. I had planned to drive 4 hours from Canberra to Avoca to work on the weekend for a shop that would have been short on staff. Now its been cancelled i have no work this weekend and will be very short on cash for next week.

 

[goingtoadisco]

+1 against the coal ships bex. They look pretty at night but there f**king ugly during that day.

 

[Part_Timer]

  The Adelaide is being scuttled in 36m of water.

the top of the boat will be 8m deep

keh

 

[Bex]

+1 against the coal ships bex. They look pretty at night but there f**king ugly during that day.

Yeh, who asked the Avoca Beach residents whether they could park them out there anyway

 

[Paolo]

I really do feel sorry for the people that have spent so much time and money into getting this ship sunk, however a simple letter drop by the council (like the one they did explaining the parking and traffic delays there will be on Friday and Saturday) about how Avoca was chosen as the location, explaining where the ship will be sunk and what impacts there will be would have helped them and the local community.

Why would the Council be doing a letter box drop for a NSW Land & Property Management Authority scuttling ?

 

[jiggles]

I really do feel sorry for the people that have spent so much time and money into getting this ship sunk, however a simple letter drop by the council (like the one they did explaining the parking and traffic delays there will be on Friday and Saturday) about how Avoca was chosen as the location, explaining where the ship will be sunk and what impacts there will be would have helped them and the local community.

Why would the Council be doing a letter box drop for a NSW Land & Property Management Authority scuttling ?

plus, not to mention all the ADVERTISED information seminars and evenings about the scuttling which could of been attended by anyone and a fully functional website with contact details for the appropriate people to contact with your concerns or questions.

 

[goingtoadisco]

I definatly feel the frustration that you do. I agree that people from Avoca should have been more aware but 99.9 % of the Avoca population at the start of the year thought the ship was off Terrigal. Why did everyone think that ?

At least now its before a court, the proper finding will be reached and everyone will get what they want.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Kill hippy protesters.

Why is this getting so hard, they had a few of them in 1 place. its a warship, load it up, sail it out and fire on the bastards.

Will clear land for high rises on the beach too

 

[nero]

Just get it over with so I can go out and dive!

 

[Sean]

"Mike Rubbo - The shark threat can also hurt our brand"

Discounting the fact he perceives his beach as a "brand" (A-Grade wankery in action right there) - the ocean is where the sharks live.  You take that risk _every_ time you step into the water.

Also, those going on about "it will change coastal tides"..... get a grip.  Do you understand at all how tides and waves work??  Fuck me.

Are these people Limited News readers or what??

This is much bigger than just a ship going bang with a big crowd and a future reef site.
Yes it will attract marine life, and tourism, but the argument about potential sharks has merit and im confident this is why the whole thing has been delayed.
The environmental implications of this scheme are massive! just around the point (Kilcare/Putty etc) there is a MARINE WILDLIFE RESERVE! with full protection in place, now what would the environmental implications be when you introduce a new factor (a sunken ship reef site) into a thriving ecosystem? it could potentially be an environmental disaster with the existing Marine wildlife ecosystem failing e.g as there would be too much weight to the predators scale than the prey.

Can someone please link to any article which talks about the environmental implications (seriously) instead of the ones crapping on about
1) Toxic chemicals leaking from wires etc
2) local businesses and how much they will lose out if 50,000 people dont pack avoca to watch something go BOOM!

Been scouring through articles on express advocate for where it could actually state what the effects (both positive and negative) will be on the local area and especially the marine wildlife reserve near putty beach etc. Journalism seems terrible up on the coast, see Chris Holsteins rant about how much sausages will be wasted because of this weekends cancellation. It seems like noone is caring up there about what it could mean in the long term both for the coast and nature, instead its replaced by articles which have protesters taking stabs at each other...similar to this forum.

 

[dibo]

Sean, they've stripped the ship. It's a bare hull. They've tested it for hazardous chemicals and determined that its impact will be acceptable.

The ships that come by shipping coal to foreign waters (i.e. carrying foreign algae and barnacles etc., dropping oil and rubbish) are more trouble.

Short of squashing some slow moving fish and disturbing sand, I don't see the problem.

 

[FFC Mariner]

I further note that where this has been done in Oz waters before, no adverse environment impacts have been felt

Sink the ship

 

[Jesus]

Everone knows there are cavens at terrigal that constantly have "DANGEROUS" sharks in them right?

When was the last time they strayed to terrigal beach, or even followed the smell of fish from fishermans discards at the haven?

 

[Bex]

Can someone please link to any article which talks about the environmental implications (seriously) instead of the ones crapping on about
1) Toxic chemicals leaking from wires etc
2) local businesses and how much they will lose out if 50,000 people dont pack avoca to watch something go BOOM!

Well, you could actually find this stuff yourself but I guess if you're an anti-scuttling advocate you're probably also oblivious to all the myriad of media coverage and Council resources this event has attracted in the past 5 years. Honestly, you've only got to type "HMAS Adelaide" into Google Australia and it's the first hit. Anyway here you go:

http://www.hmasadelaide.com/enviromental_information/environmental_assessment

 

[marinermick]

I further note that where this has been done in Oz waters before, no adverse environment impacts have been felt

and the thousand of unstripped shipwrecks around the world that have had no impact on the environment, including many in pristine tropical areas that have just enhanced the sealife

 

[midfielder]

I further note that where this has been done in Oz waters before, no adverse environment impacts have been felt

and the thousand of unstripped shipwrecks around the world that have had no impact on the environment, including many in pristine tropical areas that have just enhanced the sealife

Ship wrecks are seen to enhance sealife ... no argument about it ... just do it I wanta go for a dive...

 

[marinermick]

I further note that where this has been done in Oz waters before, no adverse environment impacts have been felt

and the thousand of unstripped shipwrecks around the world that have had no impact on the environment, including many in pristine tropical areas that have just enhanced the sealife

Ship wrecks are seen to enhance sealife ... no argument about it ... just do it I wanta go for a dive...

interesting eh?

would coral and sealife exist and live on anything that is toxic?

 

[goingtoadisco]

Wow i just checked how much it costs to dive. Start saving.