Green Fish for Iran

[David Votoupal]

But what if public mood against a sitting government is so strong?

It happened in Poland in 2005 when the SLD (ex-Communist socialists) were routed out of office amidst corruption and mismanagement, and shifting Poland decisively to the right.

It's happened in Canada several times- federally in 1993 (when the Tories collapsed after Mulroney screwed up his second term big time), and provincially a fair few times.

It's certain to happen in Hungary next year (similar scenario to Poland, only worse), and in the UK when they next go to the polls.

Who's to say it won't happen in NSW?

 

[serious14]

Who's to say it won't happen in NSW?

I don't think it's in the Australian "way of life", whatever you want to call it, to take to the streets and storm the Bastille and that sort of caper.  It's the whole "she'll be right mate" attitude - I mean, the most violent revolutionary activity in the countries history thus far was a bunch of miners protesting about their pay and conditions that lasted about 10 minutes one December morning....

 

[Jesus]

Who's to say it won't happen in NSW?

I don't think it's in the Australian "way of life", whatever you want to call it, to take to the streets and storm the Bastille and that sort of caper.  It's the whole "she'll be right mate" attitude - I mean, the most violent revolutionary activity in the countries history thus far was a bunch of miners protesting about their pay and conditions that lasted about 10 minutes one December morning....

Most revolutions are funded from the outside. Get the CIA involved and the NSW govt will fall

 

[dibo]

Comparing NSW to Iran is pointless and misleading.

For a start, we have free and fair elections for a democratic parliament.
We also have a free press.
We also have justice that is not arbitrary or capricious.

In short, we have a functioning democracy. Our revolutions are conducted at the ballot box by the people and the losers accept the people's will.

But what if public mood against a sitting government is so strong?

It happened in Poland in 2005 when the SLD (ex-Communist socialists) were routed out of office amidst corruption and mismanagement, and shifting Poland decisively to the right.

It's happened in Canada several times- federally in 1993 (when the Tories collapsed after Mulroney screwed up his second term big time), and provincially a fair few times.

It's certain to happen in Hungary next year (similar scenario to Poland, only worse), and in the UK when they next go to the polls.

Who's to say it won't happen in NSW?

I don't think it's in the Australian "way of life", whatever you want to call it, to take to the streets and storm the Bastille and that sort of caper.  It's the whole "she'll be right mate" attitude - I mean, the most violent revolutionary activity in the countries history thus far was a bunch of miners protesting about their pay and conditions that lasted about 10 minutes one December morning....

Most revolutions are funded from the outside. Get the CIA involved and the NSW govt will fall

It will happen, at the ballot box in March 2011 - unless of course the Opposition shows itself to be so inept that not even this government seems a riskier bet.

To be honest - after seeing the Opposition take singleminded opportunism as its guiding light in voting against privatisation of electricity and lotteries and campaign against the publication of school league tables (in spite of the simple fact that at the last election they supported all of these policies) I think that this is actually possible. Very unlikely, but the Opposition so far is both unlikeable and unprincipled. Their only saving grace is that at present, the Government is clearly worse.

The only thing that could force it to be earlier is if the Government requests that the Governor dissolve the Parliament.

As for a *real* revolution - as long as the basic tenets of democracy stand and function I don't believe anyone could seriously want that, no matter the state of the Government. Armed cabals taking over the democratic institutions, and putting them in the hands of who? The NSW Police Commissioner? The only winner there is the person with the most bullets. Ridiculous notion.

 

[David Votoupal]

I'm not talking violent revolution, I'm talking the fact that people rout out the government at the polls.

It's 20 years since the Communist system fell, and Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary offered the strongest resistance to Soviet tyranny. They serve as an inspiration to freedom-loving people everywhere.

 

[dibo]

I'm not talking violent revolution, I'm talking the fact that people rout out the government at the polls.

It's 20 years since the Communist system fell, and Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary offered the strongest resistance to Soviet tyranny. They serve as an inspiration to freedom-loving people everywhere.

Yeah, they're in every Young Liberal's colouring book. It's funny how we're for freedom in some places and not others, like the military overthrow of democratically elected governments in South and Central America on one hand and then for democracy in Eastern Europe, while supporting brutal dictatorships across Asia, Africa and the Middle East

Nothing to do with freedom...

 

[David Votoupal]

You're talking to a fervent anti-leftist here mate, my own dad fled 40 years ago.

The Soviets imposed Communism into unwilling populations in those countries. Free and fair elections were held in Hungary and Czechoslovakia following the end of the war, in which Communists did not win (and were, in fact, overwhelmingly rejected in Slovakia and Hungary). But the Soviets imposed Communist rule anyway, even though the vast majority of the populace was against it.

They had already set up their puppet state in Poland, so the Government in Exile based in London could not return (and did not until 1990). Not surprisingly there was massive grassroots resistance, and that became Solidarity. And let's not forget the Soviet occupation of the Baltic countries was completely illegal.

Let's not forget that Yugoslavia and later Romania under Ceausescu broke with Moscow and shifted towards the West. But that's another story.

The Poles have a long history of valuing political liberty and resisting tyranny. Australia's highest mountain is named after Tadeusz Kosciuszko, who led the resistance against Russian encorachment in 1794. But before then Poland had enacted a very progressive constitution for the time, and the Napoleon-created Duchy of Warsaw also had a very progessive constitution.

Czechoslovakia, likewise, was a progressive democracy before World War II- one of the freest on the Continent.

 

[dibo]

You're talking to a fervent anti-leftist here mate, my own dad fled 40 years ago.

I respect that, and like most sensible people I welcome the spread of democracy across parts of the world where it was suppressed or never promoted at all. I'm a democrat before I'm a socialist, if you dig my point.

Where governments are set up as client states and supported in spite of their being repressive and brutal regimes because they the interests of serve 'our' superpower rather than the 'bad' one, apparently that's ok. And that has happened in a number of instances, sponsored by the leaders of the 'free' world.