FFA set to look into second-tier comp

[Arabmariner]

A second tier will fail, simple

With teams in the a-league failing to make money, it wont work unless foxtel triple their payment to air the league, and a sponsor comes on board who has no problem going broke

As long as the whole league structure remains under one roof it wouldn't neccesarily fail.

It would fail if the A-league clubs got greedy and broke away and formed their own league sometime down the track.

 

[Jesus]

A second tier will fail, simple

With teams in the a-league failing to make money, it wont work unless foxtel triple their payment to air the league, and a sponsor comes on board who has no problem going broke

As long as the whole league structure remains under one roof it wouldn't neccesarily fail.

It would fail if the A-league clubs got greedy and broke away and formed their own league sometime down the track.

If it is run to be a professional league it may fail, but semi pro it should be runable.

 

[Kareem]

Interesting article
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25540357-5000940,00.html?from=public_rss

Second tier football competition in Australia could end in tears

    Exclusive by Fox Sports commentator Simon Hill
    May 26, 2009

Anyone who watched the drama unfolding in the Barclays Premier League over the weekend could be forgiven for wanting to be part of a sporting landscape that involves promotion and relegation.

Newcastle Uniteds fruitless search for a point at Villa Park was compulsive viewing for the neutral, hugely appealing to our sense of social Darwinism so long as its not our club fighting for survival!

Here in Australia, no such system exists, but - under pressure from the Asian Football Confederation - Football Federation Australia last week outlined its plans for a second tier competition, including the prospect of annual promotion and relegation.

A second division would make a fascinating addition to the game here, but I believe introducing automatic promotion and especially relegation between the A-League and the proposed B-League would be a mistake.

Many A-League clubs are struggling financially. The costs of competing in a national competition in a country where football doesnt rule the corporate roost means our game has to fight to evolve.

But, progress has most certainly been made - so why jeopardise that by demoting one of the clubs that has fought so hard to make ends meet in the first few years of the A-League? If such a system had existed last season, Newcastle Jets, like their Premier League equivalents, would have been playing B-League football come August.

FFA wants more Asian Champions League representation to improve the performances of the clubs - but would the Jets (qualifiers for the last 16) have been able to tempt the likes of Fabio Vignaroli with only second tier domestic football on offer next season?

In fact, would they have had ANY money at all?

Perhaps there would be television networks champing at the bit to pour cash into a new B-League - but somehow I doubt it.

Secondly, what would the make-up of the new competition be? Would clubs such as South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, Sydney Olympic and Marconi re-enter the national stage?

No disrespect to any of those fine clubs intended but wasnt the A-League (the B-Leagues theoretical promotion pathway) supposed to be a departure from ethnically aligned outfits? Would some of them even want to return to national competition?

A second tier competition is desirable - but it will require a very careful approach if we are not to threaten the shoots of recovery, sown since 2005.

Here are several alternatives FFA may consider worth looking at none involving relegation from the A-League:

1. Create a stand-alone second division made up of current state league clubs - no promotion into the A-League.
Strengths: strong competition, inclusion of old ethnic clubs, some of whom feel disenfranchised by the A-League.
Weaknesses: smacks of a lower league NSL - doesnt resolve AFC promotion/relegation issue.

2. Stand-alone developmental second division made up of individual States - no promotion or relegation.
Strengths: possibility of a true national footprint - state bodies to be franchise holders and main financiers (hopefully). State leagues to remain in winter season, giving year- round football for second tier players.
Weaknesses: little supporter interest in following teams with state alignment, financial imposition on poorer states. Doesnt resolve AFC issue.

3. A stand-alone second division that operates along similar lines to Britains Rugby League promotion/relegation system. Clubs who win the second tier championship are eligible for promotion as long as they meet strident criteria. No relegation from the A-League however, and new franchises are still encouraged to apply for the top flight from elsewhere.
Strengths: current A-League clubs protected. Potential resolution of AFC issue.
Weaknesses: potential conflict if new franchises get the nod over clubs who win titles on the field.

4. Leave the second tier system as it is - the states run their own competitions, but at the end of the season inaugurate a series of inter-state play-offs to decide which club is champion. That club is eligible for promotion should it wish to apply and fulfils strict criteria. Again, no relegation from the top tier.
Strengths: financially prudent. End of season interest in play-offs. Could be run in conjunction with option 2... or not. AFC issue resolved?
Weaknesses: clubs ill prepared for promotion, particularly with crossover between winter and summer seasons should a club go up.

5. FFA tells AFC where to stick its promotion and relegation demands. Perhaps by raising the question as to whether the same bullying stance is being adopted by CONCACAF towards our American cousins over their non-conformist approach on this exact topic?
Potential weakness: fewer Champions League spots perhaps being kicked out of Asia altogether?

And therein lies a very thorny issue for FFA - they have an Asian problem, but it requires an Australian solution.

not to fond of any of the ideas tbh
but the idea behind the article has some merit

 

[Arabmariner]

I understand where he's coming from in regards to relegation.But without it there is no point in a 2nd division imo.

We can't have it until the a-league is big enough though.One down from 12 or even 14 is enough imo.

 

[kevrenor]

I understand where he's coming from in regards to relegation.But without it there is no point in a 2nd division imo.

We can't have it until the a-league is big enough though.One down from 12 or even 14 is enough imo.

I agree than one down one up would be quite enough. It would need to be known what system ACF would agree to.  Eg. Would they allow a system that needed: a) the potential promoted team to meet the same criteria as the A-League franchises, with b) a play-off between say the top two (IF any of them qualified by the criteria) (and no relegation is there was no team who met the criteria), and c) a two-leg playoff between the team due to go down and the team qualifying (if any) from b).

That is the carrot is dangled quite high, and in most years there would be no promotion.

 

[Arabmariner]

I understand where he's coming from in regards to relegation.But without it there is no point in a 2nd division imo.

We can't have it until the a-league is big enough though.One down from 12 or even 14 is enough imo.

I agree than one down one up would be quite enough. It would need to be known what system ACF would agree to.  Eg. Would they allow a system that needed: a) the potential promoted team to meet the same criteria as the A-League franchises, with b) a play-off between say the top two (IF any of them qualified by the criteria) (and no relegation is there was no team who met the criteria), and c) a two-leg playoff between the team due to go down and the team qualifying (if any) from b).

That is the carrot is dangled quite high, and in most years there would be no promotion.

That sort of criteria is acceptable in europe so you would think it would suit the AFC as well.

Falkirk in Scotland were twice denied promotion (so no relegation) because their stadium was not up to standard.

 

[clarence]

I understand where he's coming from in regards to relegation.But without it there is no point in a 2nd division imo.

We can't have it until the a-league is big enough though.One down from 12 or even 14 is enough imo.

I agree than one down one up would be quite enough. It would need to be known what system ACF would agree to.  Eg. Would they allow a system that needed: a) the potential promoted team to meet the same criteria as the A-League franchises, with b) a play-off between say the top two (IF any of them qualified by the criteria) (and no relegation is there was no team who met the criteria), and c) a two-leg playoff between the team due to go down and the team qualifying (if any) from b).

That is the carrot is dangled quite high, and in most years there would be no promotion.

I think the FFA should be trying to make the delegates at the AFC understand the Australian sporting landscape a lot better.

For better or worse, the A-League is a franchise based League. Syndicates wanting to enter a team in the A-League must meet the FFA's criteria. The standard of ground, and facilities must be maintained so the A-League is attractive enough to partly entice people to the game. The competition from other sports and events, even in summer, is high.

It goes without saying that any team seeking promotion to the A-League must also meet that standard. Be damned if I am going to what is a tarted up council ground with the old piss troughs, poor food & access, etc., when I had previously been going to a stadium in a major location in the city.

Now, that may mean a promoted State League team may get creative and ask to share a stadium with an existing A-League club close to them or take over the lease off the team that got relegated, but their financial strength and ability to properly compete in the A-League must be there too.

I understand why the AFC wants the FFA to comply with a  proper League system, but I don't agree that in order to placate the AFC we have to corrupt the criteria that has made the A-League  a solid performer over the last 4 seasons, purely so we can promote one or two State League teams and be forever damned with an inferior comp.

A number of people who currently are within the FFA's Football family of supporters would stand back if some State League club turned up in the A-League with their old ethnic baggage. They will take a lot of convincing that letting any State League (old soccer) club anywhere near the A-League is going to be good for the game here, and our critics will jump up for joy at the first sign of trouble. These are the folks who have come out of the woodwork and supported Football for probably the first time in their lives and it would be suicide to get their noses out of joint by allowing any club in who turns up with an old world attitude. We know who these clubs are.

I will add too, that Australia has some detractors amongst the AFC ranks and our joining the AFC was not met by uniformed rejoicing.

Some delegates may view the A-League as a showcase League and their point is well founded.

The A-League clubs can invite and negotiate with whoever is wanting to trial from the State Leagues, and have the power of the fully supported and professional league behind them in comparison to the State Leagues which are at best, semi pro and not greatly supported by business. What the AFC are seeing, is, in fact, the best that Australia wants them to see.

However, China, Japan, Korea etc. do have lower tier comps. and promotion and relegation, I'm led to believe.

So at the moment, Australia presents it's best clubs to the AFC only while the other countries have lower comps. on show and the promoted clubs probably are not as string as they could be when they enter the higher comp.

If that does happen, some J-League or K-League 1 games won't be so competitive, but in a hypothetical contrast, our State League teams vs. the J-League 2 or K-League 2 teams would be such a mismatch in favour of the Japanese or Korean teams it wouldn't be funny.

In other words, our perceived strength of our National team and our A-League club's rights to compete in the AFC CL would be seriously undermined if the AFC demanded we show our proper depth at the professional level. And that is what I think our detractors within the AFC want the FFA to do, as it would lessen our dignity within the Conference, if it was shown we had a top professional premier league and not much more.

At the moment we are telling the other AFC members 'we are equal to you', when in reality, we may actually be quite inferior once you scratch past the A-League surface.

 

[marinerbhoy]

well written clarence! want to write my research essay for me?

 

[Blackadder]

No doubt below the A-League level the FFA is inferior to lower levels elsewhere in Asia, however they have had decades to strengthen the lower leagues in line with the rest of Asia where Australia has been up against the might of Oceania.

 

[Jesus]

There is no suggestion yet that it will necessarily be state league clubs, or "ethnic" state leasgue clubs.

The FFA will lose no licensing control. All clubs coming in will need to meet criteria. One I am sure will be to lose the specific "ethincity" of the club, and be broader.

Most of these teams if they do not already have a stadium up to standard, then there will be a near by stadium they will be able to move to.

Personally i think the a-league should be 14 teams before it comes in. Though I guess they could start the planned promoted teams in the b league, and move them in after a season or two, before starting full promotion relegation.

But basically the FFA will have ultimate control as they do with current teams.

Then hopefully they can turn their attention to overhauling the state leagues etc down.

 

[Kareem]

Though I guess they could start the planned promoted teams in the b league, and move them in after a season or two, before starting full promotion relegation.

this!!!
Assuming WSyd get nod
then between Canberra, Tassie + the Gong (and maybe someone else) for the last 2 places.
Would rather they play it out in 2nd div for a season or two and earn their place- would create a bit of excitement at beginning of 2nd league with 2 guaranteed spots up for grabs