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Derby Day - 23/10/09
- Thread starter dibo
- Start date
shipwreck
Well-Known Member
Not really a question about if it was a handball or not, it blatantly slapped TS right in the hand and fell right infront of the jets striker to finish it off, accidental or not thats a handball that aided in a goal, shouldnt of been allowed in my opinion, but thats football!
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Just back. f**k I hate going to that place even if we win. When we lose its simply terrible.
Branko spent the week geeing them up and they played like it was a cup final. They simply wanted it more than we did and perhaps LM was outcoached once more.
From live, my view:
Danny - 7/10. Didnt have much to do after we went 2-0 down
Boogs - 6/10. Slow to distribute the ball, let them close us down too easily
Doig - 7/10 for the game. -10 for walking off the pitch after and being the only player who didnt come over to us. Up himself or just thinks he's too good?
Wilko - ??You hardly notice he is there sometimes. Not what you want from a captain
Heff - 6/10 same as Boogs IMHO sat too deep, to slow to distribute (possibly keeping goal side of Elrich)
Travis - 6/10 by the time he got the ball was usually swamped. Goes missing a lot IMHO, wasted on the right
Crowell - 7/10 solid, good passer. Quality pick up
Hutch - 6/10 very flat, quite poor tonight. Too slow and was closed down every time
Wee Mac - 6/10 Great player, lovely passer, quick feet but got no space, no time and v little support tonight
Kwas - 7/10 Never stops trying, obviously hates the scum
Matty - 7/10 Battered the CB's all night, tries so hard, v little support and cant be expected to do it alone
Subs:
Dmac - minus 200 awful, every pass was poorly hit, effectively 10 men when he came on
Smitta - 5/10 no time to make an impact, nearly fluked a goal at the death
Pedj - 5/10 same as Smitta really
We left our subs far too late again, the scum were out on their feet but you cant expect to pick up the tempo of a game in 10/15 mins FFS.
Away support?
Dare I say the most organised, most passionate effort ever. Quality capo work and big big effort for 90 mins.
Keep it up
Branko spent the week geeing them up and they played like it was a cup final. They simply wanted it more than we did and perhaps LM was outcoached once more.
From live, my view:
Danny - 7/10. Didnt have much to do after we went 2-0 down
Boogs - 6/10. Slow to distribute the ball, let them close us down too easily
Doig - 7/10 for the game. -10 for walking off the pitch after and being the only player who didnt come over to us. Up himself or just thinks he's too good?
Wilko - ??You hardly notice he is there sometimes. Not what you want from a captain
Heff - 6/10 same as Boogs IMHO sat too deep, to slow to distribute (possibly keeping goal side of Elrich)
Travis - 6/10 by the time he got the ball was usually swamped. Goes missing a lot IMHO, wasted on the right
Crowell - 7/10 solid, good passer. Quality pick up
Hutch - 6/10 very flat, quite poor tonight. Too slow and was closed down every time
Wee Mac - 6/10 Great player, lovely passer, quick feet but got no space, no time and v little support tonight
Kwas - 7/10 Never stops trying, obviously hates the scum
Matty - 7/10 Battered the CB's all night, tries so hard, v little support and cant be expected to do it alone
Subs:
Dmac - minus 200 awful, every pass was poorly hit, effectively 10 men when he came on
Smitta - 5/10 no time to make an impact, nearly fluked a goal at the death
Pedj - 5/10 same as Smitta really
We left our subs far too late again, the scum were out on their feet but you cant expect to pick up the tempo of a game in 10/15 mins FFS.
Away support?
Dare I say the most organised, most passionate effort ever. Quality capo work and big big effort for 90 mins.
Keep it up
LFCMariners
Well-Known Member
Marinators> Scum fans: "You only sing if you're winning!"
Marinerchick
Well-Known Member
pretty sure im not happy about the result,
also pretty sure i am not very happy about what words came out of my mouth at 2 smartass scum fans after, sorry if i offended any there, id like to see them bring it up to me on monday ill give them a lovely ladylike mouthful like i did tonight
hahah
sif.
loved how you guys left the stadium in voice, was really good,
keep up the good work
also pretty sure i am not very happy about what words came out of my mouth at 2 smartass scum fans after, sorry if i offended any there, id like to see them bring it up to me on monday ill give them a lovely ladylike mouthful like i did tonight
hahah
sif.
loved how you guys left the stadium in voice, was really good,
keep up the good work
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Mostly agree FFC.
Firstly, thank f**k for the forum. Somewhere to share the pain!
Now I'll get my griping bitching whinges over with.
Ball should not have been at that end for the first goal. Boogs screwed up at that end, then came back and bit in for the tackle on Bridges and opened up the goal. His worst performance of this season for me unfortunately. Has set the bar, hope he can keep it there or continue to lift it higher.
Second goal, as shipwreck said. Deliberate or not, the arm was well outside the line of his body, it brought the ball down inside the 6 yard box, clearly deviating it's flight into a goal scoring position. If the ball did not hit the hand, very unlikely that there would have been a goal. Has to be handball.
*sigh*
HATE stupid errors.
HATE poor refereeing decisions.
HATE dominating games and not converting.
HATE not being able to win two games in a row.
And above all...
HATE losing to the scum!!!
END RANT.
Now for some slightly more productive comments....
More movement and faster movement off the ball is essential to cut teams open. See MV :ashamed: Attacking players must attack. If the opposition are sitting deep, sometimes you must simply run at them and see what opens up. If you don't, very hard for your strikers to make something happen. Except desperately try to knock the ball straight back from where it just came - with your back to goal and two defenders right behind you...
We were never going anywhere with this and looked creatively stumped. Slow and or average/unadventurous distribution from the back will not make their jobs any easier however. But we had plenty of possession, and in the final third you need to be brave and creative to consistently score goals.
Actually thought Heff worked harder than most - PITY about his crosses
Also made a few errors but there were some good and willing runs - and was one of the only ones willing to try and take on other players. As said, very hard to open up a team when they are sitting deep if your attacking mids aren't running at the players. Pedj, Kwassie and Boogard once each were the only team members who took on their man and actually got in behind.
You don't want to do it all the time sure, but Travis did not try and take on anyone again, nor did Weemac and nor did Hutch. Newcastle were too stacked and tight for the killer ball. And you don't force anyone to commit by laying it off early or back safely all the time... We created little or zero space in the final third and I believe our attacking mids must bare the bulk of this responsibility tonight.
Travis and Weemac must be more daring and back themselves. Weemac when he did this against SFC looked simply awesome. Who gives a shit even if he fails, even if he can beat someone just 1 in four, it would have created a lot more opportunity than we managed tonight just knocking it flatly around.
Hutch was the least effective, was tucking in and looked like he was playing a controlling DM role. Subsequently we looked more like we were playing 4 2 2 2 to me.
He was simply not attack minded enough tonight and failed in his role for mine. Fine as DM, and i've always stuck up for him, when I felt his role was misunderstood. but need to offer much more when he's in the AM role than he did tonight. Disappointing after he just showed that he can run at players and score goals only last week. As AM this cannot be something we only see him try once every few games. Also no runs wide and in behind... Only Heff, which became predictable. He's just not really a wide player... and great game last week, but didn't look like a wide player then either.
For mine, I think our midfielders - screener excepted - need to focus much less on denfesive duties and much more on attack. We need all three of our attacking mids, to break much quicker, to provide second waves of attack, and to run at the defenders to force the issue, hopefully beating them or dragging them out of position and opening space for Matty and Kwassie.
Matty...
Only saw Matty try to take on his defenders once...?
Thought it was a flat game for him myself. Won little in the air all night, and the ball was rarely was distributed near where he was making his runs. Needs better movement or distribution or both. No shots on goal is never what you want from a striker. Actually not even sure he had a single shot at all. Definitely not what you want. Would have subbed him for DMac earlier personally...
D'Mac was poor though, but not much time, and I think he knew it, he DOES NOT LOOK HAPPY to me... If so, playing pro football is a pretty damn good way to earn a coin, bench or no... 3 mins or 30, play with all your heart and enjoy every moment.
Strongly agree with FFC, that tonight would have been a time for earlier more adventurous substitutions. You could sense that we had the possession but did not look like creating anything genuine.
Leave Crowell on and go to 3 5 2 IMO.
Though Kwassie was clearly our best on park.
Worked very hard. Great finish. Looked up for it.
Crowell great ball in. Solid game.
Away support sounded and looked excellent!
Made me feel proud to be CCM when you were singing so strongly and audibly...
WHILE WE WERE BEHIND
Congrats crew.
Christ... look at this post... or not!
....hannd... cramping... must.... st...op.... typing...
:-X
Firstly, thank f**k for the forum. Somewhere to share the pain!
Now I'll get my griping bitching whinges over with.
Ball should not have been at that end for the first goal. Boogs screwed up at that end, then came back and bit in for the tackle on Bridges and opened up the goal. His worst performance of this season for me unfortunately. Has set the bar, hope he can keep it there or continue to lift it higher.
Second goal, as shipwreck said. Deliberate or not, the arm was well outside the line of his body, it brought the ball down inside the 6 yard box, clearly deviating it's flight into a goal scoring position. If the ball did not hit the hand, very unlikely that there would have been a goal. Has to be handball.
*sigh*
HATE stupid errors.
HATE poor refereeing decisions.
HATE dominating games and not converting.
HATE not being able to win two games in a row.
And above all...
HATE losing to the scum!!!
END RANT.
Now for some slightly more productive comments....
More movement and faster movement off the ball is essential to cut teams open. See MV :ashamed: Attacking players must attack. If the opposition are sitting deep, sometimes you must simply run at them and see what opens up. If you don't, very hard for your strikers to make something happen. Except desperately try to knock the ball straight back from where it just came - with your back to goal and two defenders right behind you...
We were never going anywhere with this and looked creatively stumped. Slow and or average/unadventurous distribution from the back will not make their jobs any easier however. But we had plenty of possession, and in the final third you need to be brave and creative to consistently score goals.
Actually thought Heff worked harder than most - PITY about his crosses
Also made a few errors but there were some good and willing runs - and was one of the only ones willing to try and take on other players. As said, very hard to open up a team when they are sitting deep if your attacking mids aren't running at the players. Pedj, Kwassie and Boogard once each were the only team members who took on their man and actually got in behind.You don't want to do it all the time sure, but Travis did not try and take on anyone again, nor did Weemac and nor did Hutch. Newcastle were too stacked and tight for the killer ball. And you don't force anyone to commit by laying it off early or back safely all the time... We created little or zero space in the final third and I believe our attacking mids must bare the bulk of this responsibility tonight.
Travis and Weemac must be more daring and back themselves. Weemac when he did this against SFC looked simply awesome. Who gives a shit even if he fails, even if he can beat someone just 1 in four, it would have created a lot more opportunity than we managed tonight just knocking it flatly around.
Hutch was the least effective, was tucking in and looked like he was playing a controlling DM role. Subsequently we looked more like we were playing 4 2 2 2 to me.
He was simply not attack minded enough tonight and failed in his role for mine. Fine as DM, and i've always stuck up for him, when I felt his role was misunderstood. but need to offer much more when he's in the AM role than he did tonight. Disappointing after he just showed that he can run at players and score goals only last week. As AM this cannot be something we only see him try once every few games. Also no runs wide and in behind... Only Heff, which became predictable. He's just not really a wide player... and great game last week, but didn't look like a wide player then either.
For mine, I think our midfielders - screener excepted - need to focus much less on denfesive duties and much more on attack. We need all three of our attacking mids, to break much quicker, to provide second waves of attack, and to run at the defenders to force the issue, hopefully beating them or dragging them out of position and opening space for Matty and Kwassie.
Matty...
Only saw Matty try to take on his defenders once...?
Thought it was a flat game for him myself. Won little in the air all night, and the ball was rarely was distributed near where he was making his runs. Needs better movement or distribution or both. No shots on goal is never what you want from a striker. Actually not even sure he had a single shot at all. Definitely not what you want. Would have subbed him for DMac earlier personally...
D'Mac was poor though, but not much time, and I think he knew it, he DOES NOT LOOK HAPPY to me... If so, playing pro football is a pretty damn good way to earn a coin, bench or no... 3 mins or 30, play with all your heart and enjoy every moment.
Strongly agree with FFC, that tonight would have been a time for earlier more adventurous substitutions. You could sense that we had the possession but did not look like creating anything genuine.
Leave Crowell on and go to 3 5 2 IMO.
Though Kwassie was clearly our best on park.
Worked very hard. Great finish. Looked up for it.
Crowell great ball in. Solid game.
Away support sounded and looked excellent!
Made me feel proud to be CCM when you were singing so strongly and audibly...
WHILE WE WERE BEHIND
Congrats crew.
Christ... look at this post... or not!
....hannd... cramping... must.... st...op.... typing...
:-X
Arabmariner
Well-Known Member
Had planned to go to the game but didn't make it home from work in time.By the time I settled in front of the telly it was already two nil.....wtf......my planned Friday night completely f**ked!!!
On another note.....the crowd of just over 6,000......I know the Jest haven't been pulling big crowds lately but imo they would have pulled at least another couple of thousand on a Sunday afternoon.Friday night when people are just getting in from work and the games on the telly live EVEN IN THE CITY WHERE IT'S BEING PLAYED YOU SILLY C**TS is never going to maximise the crowd.
On another note.....the crowd of just over 6,000......I know the Jest haven't been pulling big crowds lately but imo they would have pulled at least another couple of thousand on a Sunday afternoon.Friday night when people are just getting in from work and the games on the telly live EVEN IN THE CITY WHERE IT'S BEING PLAYED YOU SILLY C**TS is never going to maximise the crowd.
Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
shipwreck said:
If it's accidental, it doesn't matter what advantage is gained - it still isn't a free kick. It needs to be deliberate for a free kick. The jets player had his arms in a position that's quite reasonable (natural) for what he was doing, and the ball unexpectedly flicked up into his arm off our player. Sorry guys, but the referee made the right call there (and before anybody complains about me defending the refs, I'd be whinging just as hard as anybody else if he got it wrong
)Regardless of whether or not it was a handball, our players should be shot for stopping.
6800 is a piss-poor crowd, isn't it? Arabmariner - I'm pretty sure we normally pull bigger crowds on Fri night than Sun arvo.
How many did we bring?
I wasn't able to watch the game (Working) - but playing the jest is never an enjoyable match. We usually seem to lose, for one. Normally it's because they actually play football whereas we get too excited over the local derby like a pack of 15 year olds and just want to do nothing more than flatten them.
Dominating games and not converting is something we've always specialised in. I think we're more likely to win when the other team dominates. Unless it's the jets, who rape us when they dominate.......
I hate that f**king Italian Scummer!!! Incited that whole malee in the first half and how kantarovski stayed on the park after his challenge on Hutch blew my mind.
Final third let us down again
Thought everyone put in tonight effortwise, it just seems to be that final pass!
Final third let us down again
Thought everyone put in tonight effortwise, it just seems to be that final pass!
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Deliberate handball?
(Not game related, as what's done is done.)
But this rule is simply a bit of joke, as its either been made redundant in its enforcing of "deliberate" or poorly refereed EVERYWHERE. You see handballs given week in week out, in every league all over the world, where you could in no way say that the player "deliberately" stuck his hand in the way.
In all honesty I would say that at least 90% of handballs I've ever seen given - were in no way deliberate. In fact usually its quite the opposite. But it always just seems if the ref sees it clearly, he gives it. Personally I've been called for handball many times and never once was it deliberate on my behalf.
If it purely has to be deliberate... then its being even more poorly officiated than the offside rule, where they simply make an error and get it wrong. "Deliberate handball" is obviously so open to the referee's discretion, that they should never ever call a handball unless the hand clearly reaches out to hit the ball...
This is jut not the case, to such an extent, that as a player coach and spectator, the reality of the rule and its application on the field throughout the world are usually at complete odds.
So much so, that while I had heard - ball to hand vs hand to ball before - I had still come to take what you see happens as the norm on the field, as the rule. Where if it was an accident, clumsy or unlucky, if its clear its usually called, and generally only let go, when the players are in very close or it happens very fast and is usually not significant in providing any advantage.
Surely a clear handball regardless of it being deliberate if it leads to a significant advantage for the opposing team should be worthy of being called?
???
(Not game related, as what's done is done.)
But this rule is simply a bit of joke, as its either been made redundant in its enforcing of "deliberate" or poorly refereed EVERYWHERE. You see handballs given week in week out, in every league all over the world, where you could in no way say that the player "deliberately" stuck his hand in the way.
In all honesty I would say that at least 90% of handballs I've ever seen given - were in no way deliberate. In fact usually its quite the opposite. But it always just seems if the ref sees it clearly, he gives it. Personally I've been called for handball many times and never once was it deliberate on my behalf.
If it purely has to be deliberate... then its being even more poorly officiated than the offside rule, where they simply make an error and get it wrong. "Deliberate handball" is obviously so open to the referee's discretion, that they should never ever call a handball unless the hand clearly reaches out to hit the ball...
This is jut not the case, to such an extent, that as a player coach and spectator, the reality of the rule and its application on the field throughout the world are usually at complete odds.
So much so, that while I had heard - ball to hand vs hand to ball before - I had still come to take what you see happens as the norm on the field, as the rule. Where if it was an accident, clumsy or unlucky, if its clear its usually called, and generally only let go, when the players are in very close or it happens very fast and is usually not significant in providing any advantage.
Surely a clear handball regardless of it being deliberate if it leads to a significant advantage for the opposing team should be worthy of being called?
???
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
serious14 said:Short version - what happened?? Couldn't find anywhere in Paris to watch.
Standard visit to the scumdome.
They wanted it, we froze
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
serious14 said:Short version - what happened?? Couldn't find anywhere in Paris to watch.
* Scum got two goals in the first 16 minutes.
The first, poor defending by Boogard and good finish by Bridges - Danny no chance.
The second, handball by the Hyphenator inside the six yard box falls to the feet of scum striker Haliti - taps it in.
Hutch makes an awesome tackle. Newy don't like it cause there well 'ard. All in hand bags at ten paces. Heff tries to milk a head press as a head butt by Vignaroli - they both get yellow.
Team fires up... Perfect ball in By Crowell, Kwassie hits super high volley at close range, impossible to save - awesome finish.
From then on we dominate and boss the game...- 58 42 possession think it was?
twenty something to 4 balls into the box...
Jest get no more significant chances for the rest of the game, but we struggle to create anything at the other end- except two dew decent chance off headers, both Fall to Kwas - just misses one. Otherwise no good or clear shots.
we lose 2 1.
Scummers play worse than they have been - but get a result.
We are inconsistent, especially in attack.
Away support was quality.
Done
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
You off to see us end Rafa's reign in 33 hours?
Part_Timer
Well-Known Member
Away support was quality.
except this..
serious14 said:Cheers lads - sounds like the usual.
except this..
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