Central Coast Stadium, our idyllic bayside home

[nearlyyellow]

I'd say it would just be for the club, since the COE is owned by Charlesworth and not the club.

If that is the case then it would be near impossible for MC to "divorce" CCMFC as the COE's image and marketability is totally tied to the Mariners bannerhead.

 

[Big Al]

Coe advertising office space available from January 2016.
CCM website

 

[Rowdy]

not even #standupforthemariners had a significant lasting effect.

The fact that the club has also invested significant time and effort in community engagement over the last 3-4 months (particularly with the whole "#IN the Coast" idea) should make it clear that the club knows where HOME IS.

3-4 mnths could hardly be considered significant, it's a beginning of 'something' that's going to take I'd say about 2- maybe 3 years.

#Hashtagging 'They're IN' isn't about real engagement (how many people are on twitter? I'm NOT. & certainly doesn't demonstrate to me that they 'know where HOME is' ??

I think there is still scope to play a couple of games per season down here, (N-Sydney) but it would require fixing the engagement problem on the Coast first, properly engaging with Northern Sydney and then working with both communities on a plan.

I disagree with you about a 'couple of games down here', the club has to put the wheel back on the cart......... & then the cart behind the horse.

As you say, first fix the (wheel) engagement problem on the Coast.

I think Central Coast fans/members have already shown they're NOT prepared to support a club/team that wants to straddle the Hawksbury. I've been a passionate supporter for the 10 years so far, & I want to continue supporting a club that proverbially 'has both feet planted on the ground' of its namesake; THE CENTRAL COAST.

I dont mind if the club wants to 'lift a leg' & 'dip a toe' south of the river..... but just-a-toe!
1 game MAX a year!!!!!!!
& ONLY after we have memberships up around 8.5-10k which is what they should be focusing on in; as I said in '2-3 years'.

Remembering, the league at the moment only gives us max 13 home games. Next year prob 12- take away a 'regional-round' & 'a game down there' = 10.

Make it 2 'games down there' & HELL! were down to 9 Home Games. Coasties would give up there memberships in droves to either take up a Foxtel subscription &/or only buy tik's for the 'Big Games'. This league aint'gonna expand in the next 2 years maybe the 3rd (insert rainbow emoticon )

During those 2-3 years, yes your 'plan' is needed. CCM should be building relationships 'down there' to bring both business & membership 'up HERE', to the idyllic Central Coast, that way the dirty word of 'relocate' can never be heard of again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm positive about the club going forward 'on the Central Coast', I just hope the CCM are too! Heed my Grandmother's wise word's to me as a youth; Never bite the Hand that feeds you!

From feet 2 hands; my rant is full circle.

 

[rbakersmith]

3-4 mnths could hardly be considered significant, it's a beginning of 'something' that's going to take I'd say about 2- maybe 3 years.

I think you need to re-read what I said. I don't disagree that 3-4 months is a relatively short amount of time, but they have put in a significant effort in that time.

#Hashtagging 'They're IN' isn't about real engagement (how many people are on twitter? I'm NOT. & certainly doesn't demonstrate to me that they 'know where HOME is' ??

Firstly, don't go adding things to quotes to suit your rant. I used #standupforthemariners to represent the broader campaign to revive crowds on the Coast; there was far more to it than just a hashtag.

Secondly, the "IN" campaign (for which I didn't use a hashtag) extends beyond Twitter, or Facebook. If you had paid attention to any of the material you've received from the club over the last couple of months you would have seen that. It's also extended to how the club presents itself to the community - if you saw some of the comments made by Shaun Mielekamp at Wyong Council's Smart City Vision launch last month you would have seen how much he gets the idea of living and being "in" the coast. I think that as the general membership drive starts tomorrow we'll see a lot more around this concept of being "in the coast".

I think Central Coast fans/members have already shown they're NOT prepared to support a club/team that wants to straddle the Hawksbury. I've been a passionate supporter for the 10 years so far, & I want to continue supporting a club that proverbially 'has both feet planted on the ground' of its namesake; THE CENTRAL COAST.

The membership numbers last season don't reflect that, and I don't think that what you've said reflects the beliefs of all members living on the Coast. I have seen a lot of fear that the club would relocate from the Coast, and the way that the club went about things certainly didn't help. But I don't think that they would have a problem with playing one or two games in Northern Sydney if it was presented properly.

Like it or not, but the reality is that the club already does "straddle the Hawkesbury", not just in its supporter base (remember around 20% of fans live south of the Hawkesbury) but in its relationships with local associations and in the North Shore Mariners team. This doesn't change the fact that the club sees the Coast as its home.

I dont mind if the club wants to 'lift a leg' & 'dip a toe' south of the river..... but just-a-toe!
1 game MAX a year!!!!!!!
& ONLY after we have memberships up around 8.5-10k which is what they should be focusing on in; as I said in '2-3 years'.

Getting memberships up around 8.5-10k is going to involve getting more people "down here" to join. There's no way to avoid that - if cities of over 1m people struggle to get to 10k, how do you think a region of around 320,000 - that is still very much a rugby league area - would fare?

Remembering, the league at the moment only gives us max 13 home games. Next year prob 12- take away a 'regional-round' & 'a game down there' = 10.

The "regional round" is our 14th "home" game. If we only received 13 home games in a season (like last season, and likely next season) then there won't be a "regional round" and there would be 13 games to play at Gosford.

Make it 2 'games down there' & HELL! were down to 9 Home Games.

Again this is based on a false premise. There aren't regional/community rounds when we get 13 home games.

During those 2-3 years, yes your 'plan' is needed. CCM should be building relationships 'down there' to bring both business & membership 'up HERE', to the idyllic Central Coast, that way the dirty word of 'relocate' can never be heard of again.

There was never a plan to relocate to Northern Sydney, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up that "dirty word". Without a doubt, the aim should be to have as many games as possible at Gosford. But if there are a significant number of members in Northern Sydney (which is only likely to increase), isn't it worth at least exploring the idea of hosting one or two games in the area as part of the club's future?

 

[dibo]

There was never a plan to relocate to Northern Sydney

I simply don't believe that.

 

[rbakersmith]

I simply don't believe that.

A relocated side would instantly lose 80% of its members. Mike Charlesworth may have made some questionable decisions, but I don't think he's that stupid.

In any case, relocation would require approval from the FFA. With no suitable stadium to play in (Brookvale in its current form wouldn't be good enough long-term), combined with very strong opposition from Sydney FC, that idea would never get up.

 

[dibo]

I'm not saying it would have actually happened, I'm not saying that if it had happened it would have worked, I'm certainly not saying FFA would have signed off; I'm saying that I think it was in the plans.

I think they looked at a market of 300k vs a market of ~1.5m and thought "we are idiots sitting here in the puddle when there is a big pond over there".

 

[rbakersmith]

a market of 300k vs a market of ~1.5m

You've massively overestimated the size of the pond.

North Shore (Ku-ring-gai, Willoughby, Lane Cove, Hunters Hill, North Sydney & Mosman) + Northern Beaches (Manly, Warringah & Pittwater) is bit under 600k. You might get to a million by adding Hornsby, The Hills and Ryde but you're well and truly encroaching on SFC and WSW territory.

 

[dibo]

I'd be counting Ryde and Hornsby too - they're areas where we've already had a very significant presence, including preseason games against Spirit FC for a number of years at Christie Park.

Nevertheless it's true - I overestimated the numbers. I looked at the LGA numbers too and on my count it's 900k rather than my estimate of 1.5m, so 3x the market rather than 5x. You can decide if you think that's a massive overestimation.

Ruling Hornsby and Ryde out for having a significant SFC and WSW territory misses the point.

For a start, they're probably the two LGAs (along with Ku-Ring-Gai) where it's potentially easier to get to our games than either SFC or WSW games.

More importantly, *all* of the area south of the Hawkesbury has significant SFC and WSW support. I'm sure both clubs would comfortably trounce us for membership numbers in the region.

We do have significant membership in Sydney, but I'm willing to bet that *many*, maybe a majority, of them are like me - coasties who happen to live in Sydney (because in my weekend footy club in Sydney there are at least a dozen of us). We see ourselves as expats, not as Sydneysiders who support the Mariners.

Given the demographics of the Central Coast have for generations shown an exodus of people aged 20-35, this is a huge part of our target market. Diluting the link to the Central Coast makes the club less meaningful to us expats.

Should Liverpool move home games to Wembley because there are shitloads of scousers and other Liverpool fans in London? They could get bigger crowds in a bigger stadium, but it misses the point completely.

 

[rbakersmith]

Should Liverpool move home games to Wembley because there are shitloads of scousers and other Liverpool fans in London? They could get bigger crowds in a bigger stadium, but it misses the point completely.

I think you're missing the point somewhat.

Liverpool comfortably fills Anfield (or comes close to it) on a regular basis. Not once between the EPL, FA Cup and League Cup did their crowds drop below 92% of capacity last season. That would be equivalent to getting 18.5k or more to CCS for every single game - yet I can probably count on one hand the number of times in 10 years that we've hit or exceeded that number.

Regardless of the stadium deal the club managed to do, if we keep getting shithouse crowds at Gosford (and by shithouse I mean 10k or lower) then the club will continue to lose money. If they're able to offset some of those losses by playing a game in another location where a large percentage of its fans live, then that's something that should be considered.

 

[dibo]

Liverpool ran their first surplus in 7 years this year. It's not like they're not losing money regularly and it's not like they're not struggling to keep up with their competition. I think I was making a pretty fair point.

 

[Rowdy]

I think you need to re-read what I said. I don't disagree that 3-4 months is a relatively short amount of time, but they have put in a significant effort in that time.


Firstly, don't go adding things to quotes to suit your rant. I used #standupforthemariners to represent the broader campaign to revive crowds on the Coast; there was far more to it than just a hashtag.

Secondly, the "IN" campaign (for which I didn't use a hashtag) extends beyond Twitter, or Facebook. If you had paid attention to any of the material you've received from the club over the last couple of months you would have seen that. It's also extended to how the club presents itself to the community

Yeah I have paid attention to the material from the club, THEY use a #MarinersIN. I didn't insert the # to misconstrue your quote, just to emphasize & combine your own words, that is, like #standup4themariners and what the club's being 'doing' for the last 3-4mnths is, as you rightly point out 'a campaign'.

They're just words. Politicians have campaigns, Petroleum companies present themselves to the community that they 'care about the environment', that's a campaign.

As for words, 'significant' & 'should make it clear that the club knows where HOME IS'. A campaign is well...er... just a campaign. It doesnt warrant significance and surely doesn't make it clear (as in definitive - 'we Won't be be relocating games ever again' .

'Actions speak louder than words' & 'Time will always tell' when it comes to campaigns &/or words. Like I said, 2-3 years from now, time will tell whether & 'how much' Charlesworth is #IN the Coast.
(edit: 4spellcheck)

 

[rbakersmith]

Their crowds weren't a contributor to their losses, ours are - and trying to limit those losses (while playing in front of as many members as possible) was the point I was trying to make.

In an ideal world we'd be averaging 14-15k at Gosford and there wouldn't need to be a discussion about playing games elsewhere, but the reality is that we don't get anywhere near that - and ignoring that reality in the hope that it will go away won't help things.

 

[rbakersmith]

THEY use a #MarinersIN

No they don't. There are no tweets at all with that hashtag. There's been #AreYouIn used a few times, but nothing focused around a particular hashtag.

They're just words. Politicians have campaigns, Petroleum companies present themselves to the community that they 'care about the environment'.

#standupforthemariners wasn't just words. For a brief time, there was clear action by people trying to increase the crowd numbers.

Campaigns can also promote ideas, and I'd suggest that the club now has the right people in charge who believe in the idea of the Mariners being a part of the Coast as much as the Coast is a part of the Mariners. Being out and about in the community, speaking to business and government and promoting that idea is as much a part of a campaign as a handful of words.

 

[Rowdy]

There was never a plan to relocate to Northern Sydney

I simply don't believe that.

And mainstream media believed it to in they way they reported it at the time. I refused like many others from the coast to go to the NSO game, others still went and protested with a banner at Charlesworth's 'inclinations of going to where the market is bigger' (or however you'd like to phrase it) as Dibo pointed out with the bigger pond.

 

[Rowdy]

No they don't. There are no tweets at all with that hashtag. There's been #AreYouIn used a few times, but nothing focused around a particular hashtag

FFS mate! are you serious? Your arguing about whether its the correct hashtag and telling people 'They're' missing the point.

You've missed the point here. Like i said I'm not on twitter, #MarinersIN (my bad memory from stuff seen on website/paper/mailout) or the correct #AreYouIn. Whats the diff?

ITS A CAMPAIGN, that was my point. done.

 

[bikinigirl]

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about that wording...

. neither am i but in all honesty ... it is to be expected ... because we demand that they be truthful

. over the next three years there is a chance we may be offered serious money to relocate a game and the club will have to decide what is the right thing to do (and we have had this discussion many times). i expect that it will only be exceptional circumstances that will take a game away ... and for the club to be transparent in the way they communicate that to the members and fans

. $0.5m to play wanderers at homebush i may accept (but offer the members a deal they can't refuse too) ... however dodgy weasel words with false hope based on false economies and poor reasoning about a game at a crappy NSO i will not accept

. impressions are important to our our personal viewpoints as well. in discussions with bruce i never felt like i was hearing the true story ... nor was i convinced he could deliver. my observations of mike have always left me feeling a little uncomfortable too

. early discussions with shaun have me hopeful for the future

 

[bikinigirl]

It's also worth remembering that our membership numbers went up in 2014/15 despite two games being scheduled away from CCS.

. i still want to see the real numbers on this ... by which i mean how many people were full members and how many were part-time members

. for example, to me 2 x 3 game passes + 1 x 6 game pass = 1 x full membership ... this is not the same as three members

. on that basis an increase in membership numbers could actually be a decrease in the level of support ... both physically and financially

. yes i know other clubs do it (melbourne apparently have over 20k members but play out of stadium with lesser capacity for example) ... but that only makes me more curious on what our real numbers are

 

[bikinigirl]

The only two games where you could primarily attribute lower crowds to moving games were the NSO and (aborted) Brookvale games.

. i think i understand what you are trying to say but it is a very stalder-like view ... i know somebody who missed more games last year than they had in the previous 9 years combined ... and it was all because of the relocated games

. perhaps this was an isolated case ... but how would we know

 

[bikinigirl]

And mainstream media believed it to in they way they reported it at the time.

. and this is a critical thing ... it gets into people's heads. and while the dozens/hundreds of people on here will debate things relentlessly, it is the thousands of members that don't and the tens/hundreds of thousands of coasties that don't who take this to heart (or in the back or front of their minds)

. it is like the reports in the mainstream media about us taking our home game to geelong ... as the community/regional round we were not entitled to play this on the coast anyway. but the mainstream media report otherwise and if you didn't know better you take the mainstream view as fact ... seb hassett should know better (perhaps middy is right that his sbs indoctrination now encourages a 'bugger the coast' attitude)

. people on here have even being referring to it as a home game taken away!

I refused like many others from the coast to go to the NSO game

. we was two who didn't go

. when we first took our community/regional round to NSO the season before last we went ... and thought it was cute that we had swung the rules to suit us (for a change). but the experience was shit and when they took 'real' home games away to a worse venue we were not ready to support it or encourage more of the same