Central Coast - RL or Football Heartland

[midfielder]

With the various leagues clubs on the Coast, Wyong, Woy Woy, Gosford to name but a few ... the Northern Eagles [failed I know] ... many RL matches selling out Bluetounge.... Is RL still the King on the Coast.

For those of us old enough to remember Bluetounge was build for RL... although faded now the seats had Eagles in white paint I think spelt out on both the east and west sides of the stadium..

I remember some time ago just prior to the Mariners arrival that the CC was one of the few areas in NSW where RL junior numbers were close to half that of football... from memory RL juniors 4.3K Football 10K..... My understanding today is football numbers have increased and RL numbers have gone down...

A bit of a personal insight when I was 18, I played [professionally] as a half for Guildford in RL [Guildford was a very big RL club sorta a second division club] ... we played a trial against Gosford at Graham Park [now Bluetounge] and got well treated especially at the CCLC... a few years on I was playing for North Rocks [Football] they had a Federation side [say second division] somehow I was on the bench again for a trial match at Gosford... went to the same CCLC after the match and well we where not made to feel welcome...

Most still say RL is still king on the Coast.... An article on the News sports site today says Football is coming after RL on the Coast ... with the hope of turning more sports fans into Football fans... Forums will be held ....

Living in the Bays with my business on the Peninsular my gut feel is RL is still the King by a long way but love the idea Mike Charlesworth is talking about ...

Love the tho's of others... BTW the article..
http://www.news.com.au/sport/footba...a-league-triumph/story-fndkzvnd-1226628935751
MARINERS owner Mike Charlesworth will use the A-League trophy to challenge rugby league on the Central Coast, warning: "This isn't a NRL town anymore."
Buoyed by his club's emphatic grand final triumph, The Daily Telegraph can reveal Charlesworth is planning to win over Gosford like the Western Sydney Wanderers have that other traditional league heartland.
While the NRL has continually fobbed off the idea of a Coast franchise - despite heavyweight support from Wayne Bennett, John Singleton, even commissioner Wayne Pearce - the Mariners are set to launch a series of forums in coming months to better understand and represent local sports fans.
The move comes in the same week NRL chief executive Dave Smith has copped a hammering for failing to understand league's heartland, with critics pointing to the fact less than 5000 fans attended the City-Country match in Coffs Harbour.

The league's failure to produce an NRL team on the coast is also starting to show a financial cost, with the two most recent NRL games at Bluetongue Stadium attracting crowds under 12,000.
"I know people say this is a rugby league town but not anymore," Charlesworth said last night. "It's a football town now. For us, turning all sports fans here towards the A-League is now our single biggest challenge."
Certainly there is work to be done. Like trying to determine why the new premiers, undoubtedly the A-League's most successful team after making four of eight grand finals, attracted only 10,000 fans to the preliminary final against Melbourne Victory a fortnight ago.
Asked if the stigma of going winless in all three previous deciders had affected support, Charlesworth said: "That's exactly what I aim to find out.
"In coming months we're going to hit the road and conduct a series of forums, talk to people and really listen to what they have to say. Not just football fans but those who aren't members of the Mariners. If you live on the Coast and aren't a part of this club, we want to know why."
Skipper John Hutchinson agreed the club was ready to achieve "big things" on the back of their maiden A-League triumph, insisting it wasn't unreasonable to think regular home crowds could be increased to 15,000 next season.
"I understand the heartache our followers have experienced in recent years because I've felt it as well," Hutchinson said.
"But hopefully now we've won the competition, we can really grow our crowd numbers, particularly at Bluetongue Stadium."
Born and raised in Cheshire, England, Charlesworth assumed his controlling interest in the Mariners from March, when a series of financial dramas left players unpaid.
Asked if, following last Sunday's success, he had picked the perfect time to become involved, the businessman said: "Well, it's certainly given us a fantastic platform to build from.
"This is a club that develops young players better than anyone else. In the past three years we've sold $3.5 million in talent. There isn't another club in the A-League that has done that."

 

[bikinigirl]

"I know people say this is a rugby league town but not anymore," Charlesworth said last night. "It's a football town now. For us, turning all sports fans here towards the A-League is now our single biggest challenge."

. i think mr charlesworth needs to be very careful what he says and does

. i know he is a football person, has been involved in the club for a few years and 'invested' a lot of money ... but i reckon he knows sfa about the people on the coast and what motivates them, their preferences and whether they want to watch 'his' football team live, regardless of the success they are having

 

[adz]

Bit harsh there BG, he actually said in his speech it's not 'his' football team, and as far as not being a Rugby League town any more, I think the round 1 clash at BTS only getting 11k-ish proves people are moving away from that.

It's also been said "If you live on the Coast and aren't a part of this club, we want to know why" in other words he wants to learn more about

the people on the coast and what motivates them, their preferences and whether they want to watch 'his' football team live, regardless of the success they are having

 

[bikinigirl]

Bit harsh there BG, he actually said in his speech it's not 'his' football team, and as far as not being a Rugby League town any more, I think the round 1 clash at BTS only getting 11k-ish proves people are moving away from that.

It's also been said "If you live on the Coast and aren't a part of this club, we want to know why" in other words he wants to learn more about

. i heard his speech and i highlighted 'his' because that is what i have already heard people saying ... a few people have already told me that the guy is kidding himself if he thinks that football is taking over and somewhat delusional if those statements are designed to encourage people "away from rugby league to soccer"

. like i said he needs to be very careful what he says

. as for the rl crowd at the 'tongue ... perhaps that just shows the general apathy coasties have for live sport ... or it could be a reflection of who was playing (i have no idea) or something to do with peptides. people can make assumptions ... i was simply advising caution with regard to public declarations

 

[nebakke]

I'm not Australian and can honestly say that I REALLY don't get the RL obsession but... Sadly I think you're right (both of you) that RL is still king on the coast.
Once that is said, I think the Mariners are doing theirs to change it along with the NRL taking Coastie fans for granted once again at the last "new team" ruling. I think they're doing their best to alienate all the people that have been rooting for the Bears up here, while CCM is doing their best to woo new fans both with their mentality and their winning ways

In no small part thanks to the NRL decision, I think Charlesworth is right in thinking that there's an opportunity here now. But I also think that it's important to bear in mind that many die-hard RL supporters just don't get football and probably never will... That's fine... As long as their kids do

Besides, I'm not entirely certain why the two are seen as mutually exclusive... To me that is very much a product of NRL/AFL/FFA marketing more than the actual football fans.... I don't think the money's so limited that the coast couldn't support both for now.

Besides, if it's anything like my wife - CCM has grown an interest in football in her, but it's about local patriotism first... On that foundation, I think an NRL and a football team could both be carried....

Well... It's local patriotism and that she thinks it always looks like Bay 16 is having huge amounts of fun...

 

[pjennings]

I think the majority of NRL supporters on the coast go to the Souths, Parramatta, Tigers and St George games. These are the teams that pull big crowds, both in terms of locals and visitors. These are old traditional clubs with long histories and their supporters probably grew up watching them live at Redfern, Kogarah and Leichhardt and Parramatta. That loyalty will not be broken.

The kids on the coast do not have that same affiliation with an NRL team - but they do, in increasing numbers have an affiliation with the Mariners. Football on the coast is strong, NRL locally is going backwards.

Think how far we have come in 8 years - then imagine what it will be like in another 8. Season 3 might have had bigger crowds, but it was based on the novelty factor that we were leading the comp. The HAL is established now and we have been growing our core since Arnie arrived. The Championship should be an opportunity to increase that core and build the loyalty on the coast similar to that enjoyed by the traditional NRL teams built upon success and local parochialism.

 

[scoober]

Think how far we have come in 8 years - then imagine what it will be like in another 8.

I think this is absolutely spot on.

I have a 7yo, 5yo and 3yo and they only know about 1 thing and that is the mariners. They would not have a clue what rugby league is, they would not know it was even a sport.

Being born into, not just the Mariners, but whatever team is supported in the A-League is where the game is going to dig its roots in. At the moment the supporters are passionate football followers, in another 8 years our children will also be passionate football followers. When they eventually have kids thats 3 generation who will passionately follow the game and the mariners.

I know we all want the game and crowds to be healthy, but I honestly think all it needs is "time" and continual good governance.

In 20 years I'm confident I will still be watching the Mariners killing another team at Bluetongue, in front of a raucous home crowd of 15-16k.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I completely agree with Bikini. The press maybe sensationalising his statement a little in emphasis, but there is no need to "challenge" RL, and i personally think it is the wrong mind set, and as Bikini states potentially quite a dangerous stance to take. i know too many RL fans who are also mariners fans. so i really dont think this is where the opposition is. nor does it need to be. as it clearly has bugger all to do with us pulling 10k instead of 15k in any case. and if polarises our community it would be a disaster.

After eight years of dragging other people to games, buying their tickets, talking them into and organising their memberships etc and living and breathing mariners, the list of obstacles, objections and barriers to entry that the people on here could put together would be pretty valuable feedback and pretty comprehensive too i would imagine.

Who'd like to kick it off?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I think the majority of NRL supporters on the coast go to the Souths, Parramatta, Tigers and St George games. These are the teams that pull big crowds, both in terms of locals and visitors. These are old traditional clubs with long histories and their supporters probably grew up watching them live at Redfern, Kogarah and Leichhardt and Parramatta. That loyalty will not be broken.

The kids on the coast do not have that same affiliation with an NRL team - but they do, in increasing numbers have an affiliation with the Mariners. Football on the coast is strong, NRL locally is going backwards.

Think how far we have come in 8 years - then imagine what it will be like in another 8. Season 3 might have had bigger crowds, but it was based on the novelty factor that we were leading the comp. The HAL is established now and we have been growing our core since Arnie arrived. The Championship should be an opportunity to increase that core and build the loyalty on the coast similar to that enjoyed by the traditional NRL teams built upon success and local parochialism.

I hink PJ is bang on. Any change of "culture" must be viewed as long term. Specifically by providing great memories and outings for families and kids. And this has well and truly begun. Just need to stay proactive and be patient in this regard.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I think this is absolutely spot on.

I have a 7yo, 5yo and 3yo and they only know about 1 thing and that is the mariners. They would not have a clue what rugby league is, they would not know it was even a sport.

Being born into, not just the Mariners, but whatever team is supported in the A-League is where the game is going to dig its roots in. At the moment the supporters are passionate football followers, in another 8 years our children will also be passionate football followers. When they eventually have kids thats 3 generation who will passionately follow the game and the mariners.

I know we all want the game and crowds to be healthy, but I honestly think all it needs is "time" and continual good governance.

In 20 years I'm confident I will still be watching the Mariners killing another team at Bluetongue, in front of a raucous home crowd of 15-16k.

this is a much better example and exactly what i was just trying to say in both my posts (was still writing while you were posting) thx scoober

 

[adz]

but there is no need to "challenge" RL

If this was the only point, I would agree, but the stuff about "his" team because some randoms talked about it even though the man himself says the opposite, and saying he doesn't know what motivates people on the Coast even though he has said a few times now they are going to conduct forums to find this out...

Obviously the headline has been sensationalised, and only part of what he has said has been highlighted as the main focus of the article, but that's what they do, why do we need to fall for it?

All this is starting to stink of the hate campaign about 12 months ago levelled at Peter Turnbull. Not necessary, not helpful.

I'm looking forward to the forums and seeing what comes of them.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Right, yes, I agree with all that Adz. My point was focused on his purported RL stance. Good post.

 

[Mumbles]

It would be interesting to see the demographic of the NRL fans on the coast.
I was born in a RL town, Cronulla where it was tradition to play RL. Some kids played football but it was rarely spoken about. We moved up to the coast in the 80's and it was definitely a RL town back then. I played for the Tigers for several years until a bad injury finished me. RL was the winter field sport played in public high schools as well as club and the competition was quite good. St. Eddies were king back then.
Not sure if insurance/litigation fears kicked in around the 90's but post Generation X seemed to be when NRL supporters and players started to wither. These days I know very few kids playing RL. All have fathers who played themselves back in the 80's. the style of play is very different today which in my opinion is more like American football than the athletic fast pace I remember. It's more of a boof head game that atracts large build kids and increases the risk of injury to the more nimble skilfull players.
I think the nimble skillfull players are encouraged by parents to play football more so now than 20/30 years ago and so they should.
Hit ups aren't all that rewarding for a kid with skill.

It may take another generation to clearly define whether the coast is a RL or football town but its obvious which direction we're heading. You'll never fully convert the Manly, Tigers, Rabbitoes or Bulldogs fans as their brains are hard wired by the suburbs they grew up in before migrating north.
If NRL money helps pay the bills at Blue tongue I think we should welcome them every now and then. Of course they will get good crowds. its a novelty just like when the circus comes to town.
To think this will convert football fans to NRL that weren't already following the sport is a bit silly. Too little, too late.

Just an opinion!

 

[MagpieMariner]

I don't see the need to convert followers of the other "football" codes. CCM plays in the summer, the others in the winter. It is possible to support both without any hassle. I am a CCM member and have been since S3 and have only missed a handful of home matches (through illness). But I am also an avid Collingwood supporter and always will be (53 years now and counting...). In my opinion, it would be easier to persuade non-football people to support both rather than trying to get them to make a choice. My son-in-law played football all his life until he retired a couple of seasons ago, but he has also always been an Eels supporter. We don't have to fight them, just show them that they can have both.

 

[bikinigirl]

If this was the only point, I would agree, but the stuff about "his" team because some randoms talked about it even though the man himself says the opposite, and saying he doesn't know what motivates people on the Coast even though he has said a few times now they are going to conduct forums to find this out...

Obviously the headline has been sensationalised, and only part of what he has said has been highlighted as the main focus of the article, but that's what they do, why do we need to fall for it?

All this is starting to stink of the hate campaign about 12 months ago levelled at Peter Turnbull. Not necessary, not helpful.

I'm looking forward to the forums and seeing what comes of them.

. i agree with what you are saying ... and i am not meaning to be argumentative (honest) ... but these 'randoms' are the ones he is hoping to convert - and not just as 'fans' he wants them at the games to pay the bills

. it will be interesting to see how the forums are run and how they turn out. for those that don't remember there was a fan forum last year ... and a few dozen people turned up. those that did turn up were the most ardent of mariners supporters. so all things considered, how many people do you think will attend that are not already going to the games?

. i don't recall me hating on turnbull and i am not trying to start some campaign against charlesworth (not yet at least ) ... but as you keep reminding me he is after feedback - i am giving him some. only time will tell what is listened to (or, indeed, what is relevant)

. adz you seem to only be looking at it from a current supporters point of view ... its all well and good to see through the sensationalism in the media but we are talking about trying to 'convert' people that don't know any better. rational thinking may work on this forum ... but this is not the audience he needs to reach we're already on board

 

[adz]

. i agree with what you are saying ... and i am not meaning to be argumentative (honest) ... but these 'randoms' are the ones he is hoping to convert - and not just as 'fans' he wants them at the games to pay the bills

And funnily enough I agree with most of what you are saying too, it's just the comments aimed at Charlesworth that irked me, 'randoms' simply meaning anyone other than Mike Charlesworth saying what Mike Charlesworth thinks about something, and listening to that even if it is contradictory to what Mike Charlesworth himself says.

. it will be interesting to see how the forums are run and how they turn out. for those that don't remember there was a fan forum last year ... and a few dozen people turned up. those that did turn up were the most ardent of mariners supporters. so all things considered, how many people do you think will attend that are not already going to the games?

Probably none. I wasn't at the fans forum last year as I thought they were going to be a waste of time, but the Western Sydney ones proved there may be something in it? I think as hardcore Mariners fans we can still come up with ideas and reasons as to why other people aren't, and how to change that?

. i don't recall me hating on turnbull and i am not trying to start some campaign against charlesworth (not yet at least ) ... but as you keep reminding me he is after feedback - i am giving him some. only time will tell what is listened to (or, indeed, what is relevant)

Sorry that one was a general comment rather than aimed at you directly. It just brings up memories of Turnbull saying something followed by a flood of people who are not Turnbull saying something different, all sorts of insults thrown his way, etc. Not that you have done that here, but I can imagine others picking up from this as a starting point and turning things quite nasty.

. adz you seem to only be looking at it from a current supporters point of view ... its all well and good to see through the sensationalism in the media but we are talking about trying to 'convert' people that don't know any better. rational thinking may work on this forum ... but this is not the audience he needs to reach we're already on board

Absolutely, and fair point too, although I'm not sure we can ever 'convert' people to football, and I don't really see the reason to. As with Magpie Mariner, he is a lifetime Collingwood fan, I'm a lifetime Melbourne Demons fan, but that doesn't mean I can't love the Mariners too. I think you will find most of the players follow a team in AFL/NRL too.

The thing that concerns me more than rugby league fans is that we have thousands of people all over the Coast on weekends playing and watching local football, enough to fill the stadium a few times, but how many of those people go to every game?

The forums probably won't reach the people we need to 'convert' to watch the Mariners every weekend, but hopefully there will be some good ideas thrown around by the people who do.

By the way if you disagree, just say it, I don't take it personally

 

[midfielder]

Bikinigirl makes a good point pertaining how are the forums to be promoted ? who will come?

Something that has always annoyed me is the number of CC folk who ask me after a game how we went... I have no doubt there is huge support on the Coast for the Mariners ... but converting that support into crowds is the 64 dollar question...

I've gotta give a huge hug and kiss to ... 2GO for their lead up to and after the GF... hopefully they can promote the forums ... the CC Association and the park teams will hopefully get behind the forums as well..

My understanding is the CCA have over 13,000 players plus family and friends .... this IMO is where the answer lies ... but its a difficult task... it's actually the same issue for all teams except the Drive Byes .... Andy Harper was the first CEO of the Smurfs and he said I will fail if I cannot connect to the park teams... he left after 12 months saying he had failed and not connected and said he hoped the next CEO could... Sadly Andy should have stayed [if for nothing else to keep him off Fox] but he knew the answer of crowds and growth for football was in the associations and their park teams... most who followed him at the Smurfs have not understood that...

It's also not about trying to start a fight with the NRL and their media .... like that is crazy beyond crazy... But as ADZ said the Headline did not reflect what was said...

I have my own ideas and will try to get to at least one forum and for the Mariner group offering advise ... please guys open up a thread for ideas..

Along with many others I believe connecting to the park teams is the holy grail ... but how is the question... maybe we will go some way to finding an answer if we can get people to the forums as I said Bikinigirl's point on who will come is the core question and the issue that needs to be solved...

 

[bikinigirl]

. just wanted to clarify ... when i have been talking about converting people i have not (specifically) been thinking nrl/afl types (charlesworth was the one that brought that up). i have been thinking about 'converting' people from 'fans' to people that actually go to games ... you know, help to pay the bills rather than just being 'fans'

. there were thousands of people at the parade the other day ... and i'd be surprised if half of them had been to more than a couple of games this year. but it was these people that i was talking about which started my ranting - people at the parade were saying 'who does this guy think he is telling us what we think and feel?' this is why i am saying he needs to be careful what he says

. to echo some of the comments above ... there is more than one generation of people that grew up playing soccer yet watching rugby league. it is local parochialism which has got them on board (for the grand final & championship at least) ... for a guy to start his speech by admitting he was 'not from around here' the same day he is quoted in the media declaring the town a 'football' town - may not win over the locals

. but it doesn't end there ... apparently i am not the only one who is the 'mariners expert' at work ... where people always ask 'who won on the weekend?' or 'can you get me tickets?' two days out from the grand final. gentle or vigorous encouragement helps about as much as laughing at them (i've tried it all). the media has a big part to play here - but relying on sbs to encourage people to mariners games

 

[bikinigirl]

. while i am in a sharing mood i will recount an experience the beau had at work the other day. he works in an office in the city and wore a mariners shirt everyday ... yes it got a lot of attention

. a guy approached him asking if he had been to the game and asking if he lived on the coast ... apparently he lived on the coast too ... near tuggerah ... an approximation of the conversation that followed:

hubby: oh, so near the centre of excellence ... cool. do you go to the games?
colleague: nah, but i used to play on the coast until a couple of years ago ... now my son plays. look here's a photo from last week [he then shows a phone photo of his son with danny mcbreen at training the week leading into the grand final]
H: last week ... are you serious? the week of the grand final?
C: yeah pretty cool eh? they're pretty good with that sort of thing
H: so why don't you go to the games?
C: well i think they really need to offer a 2-for-1 ticket deal or something to encourage people
H: that was the idea behind the free kids tickets ... you know your son gets in for free and you pay for yours ... because they still need some money from ticket sales
C: yeah but a 2-for-1 would be better [hubby is now thinking - how do i respond to that in the office] ... they have to think about how they would make more money from food and beverage once they have us there
H: umm ... so you don't realise that the mariners don't own or run the stadium or the food and beverage outlets? they don't actually make anything if you don't buy a ticket
C: oh ... umm ... great result on the weekend ... i've gotta go

. how do you overcome this sort of thinking? this is coming from a guy who would not be on minimum wage and who, judging by his ethnicity, can not fall back on generational conditioning to nrl/afl

 

[FFC Mariner]

I think people like that are too hard right now.

The club needs to walk people up the value curve tarting with people who were at the GF but aren't members (yet)

Suspect = That guy

Prospect = Went to GF and any big games at BT

Customer = Members generally

Advocate = member, will always go, usually to away games at least in NSW

The amount of S1-S3 merch around at the GF was telling.

If the club ever get serious about marketing, use data from Ticketek and aim everything at the (say) 7,000 coasties at the GF who don't go to every game or aren't members.

Categorise home games as A and B

A = WSW, scum, Sydney and Victory (plus NYE) and sell those as memberships

B = Everyone else but under 12's get in for free and have those as cheaper memberships.

Offer monthly debits, get people into the habit just like their phone bill.

This stuff isn't hard