Coast backer slams Verbeek

[dibo]

Coast backer slams Verbeek

Michael Cockerill
April 10, 2009
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ANGRY Central Coast Mariners backer Peter Turnbull yesterday became the fourth club owner to accuse Socceroos coach Pim Verbeek of undermining the A-League.

Moments after the Mariners were embarrassed 5-0 by Japanese side Kawasaki Frontale in Tuesday night's Asian Champions League match in Gosford, Turnbull said the A-League would struggle to bridge the gap as long as Verbeek continued to discourage leading Socceroos from returning from Europe at the same time as encouraging emerging talent to head in the opposite direction.

The Mariners recently missed out on the signature of Scott Chipperfield at the 11th hour, while the club's trio of fringe Socceroos - Danny Vukovic, Matt Simon and Dean Heffernan - are believed to be considering moves abroad. It's understood Simon, the club's top scorer last season, has been offered a lucrative one-year deal by American Major League side Colorado Rapids.

In recent months, the owners of North Queensland Fury, Gold Coast United and Perth Glory have spoken publicly about how Verbeek's stance was making it increasingly difficult to persuade European-based Socceroos to return home, and now Turnbull - who was also one of the original investors in Sydney FC - has joined the chorus of disapproval.

"Tonight [the defeat against Kawasaki] shows how good the J-League is and everybody, including the FFA, says the A-League needs to aspire to that level," Turnbull said. "But I have serious questions about how we can improve the A-League when a senior employee of the FFA [Verbeek] discourages Socceroos from returning to play in our league and also appears to encourage young players in the A-League, the best performers in the A-League, to move over to Europe instead of staying and helping to improve our competition.

"If we lose 5-0 to a Japanese side, how can we be expected to make things better if we don't have Socceroos returning, if we don't try and keep our better players? There's an employee of the FFA whose comments are weakening the A-League, weakening our ability to compete not just with the J-League, but with the Chinese Super League, the K-League [South Korea] and now even the MLS are looking at our players.

"Socceroos are being discouraged from coming home, and our best players are encouraged to leave. I'm speaking not as vice-chairman of Central Coast, but as someone who has invested in two different A-League clubs.

"When you're putting millions of dollars into a sport, when you're trying to build it up, having an employee knocking it down, that's frustrating, very frustrating. It just makes you wonder."

Asked whether he was calling for the FFA to censure the national coach, Turnbull replied: "No comment on that."

But Turnbull confirmed the Mariners had come agonisingly close to securing the signature of Chipperfield ahead of rival bids from Newcastle Jets and North Queensland, only for the deal to fall apart when the Socceroos veteran joined the national team in Sydney for the recent World Cup qualifier against Uzbekistan. Chipperfield has opted to stay with his Swiss club, FC Basel, for another season.

"He was talking to us, to Newcastle, and to North Queensland, and he was very close to signing with somebody," Turnbull said.

"Until the recent World Cup camp he definitely wanted to come back to Australia. But then he goes into camp and suddenly he's saying he's going to stay in Europe for one more year because he's listened to what Pim said. He was going to come back, and now he's not.

"That's why I admire Jason Culina so much. Basically he's coming back in the prime of his career, when he's a key player for the Socceroos. He's saying, 'Don't pick me at your peril.' He's bucking the trend, he's backing himself, because he believes in the A-League. That's got to be a good story."

See, there's a point here.

One thing that concerns me though is that this is a smokescreen for them not spending money in other areas, or maybe not spending in the best possible way.

Are we spending the entire cap?
If we are, are we really getting value?
If we aren't, why not? How are we supposed to compete when we're not laying out the same coin?

I get that we're hunting for players, I get that we're trying to sign quality where available, I also get that there's a long time til the HAL season starts so the hunt for players has time to play out.

But the ACL campaign has so far been shaky at best, supporters have every reason to be concerned. While Turnbull's got a point, and it's probably a point that needed to be made, Verbeek's also got a job to do and if he's not honest, he's not doing his job.

So the two are conflicted - it's all part of the dilemma of developing a club competition and maintaining success for the national side. Both need to happen. And for all Turnbull's complaints, other clubs are picking players up...

I'd rather see some players and less complaining.

 

[David Votoupal]

Frankly, I tend to agree.

We all know the weaknesses of the A-League in coaching and players.

But good management is also about motivation- and good managers realise the shortcomings of their players but also find ways to get the best from them. Verbeek is incapable of doing this.

 

[offtheball]

Very much a catch 22 situation.

A League needs to be stronger to develop players, but it can't be stronger till players come back or stay.

 

[dibo]

Frankly, I tend to agree.

We all know the weaknesses of the A-League in coaching and players.

But good management is also about motivation- and good managers realise the shortcomings of their players but also find ways to get the best from them. Verbeek is incapable of doing this.

What are you agreeing with? Are you agreeing that it'd be nice to see Turnbull et al get their shit together and get some players out there for us, or are you agreeing that Verbeek's making that impossible?

 

[David Votoupal]

Frankly, I tend to agree.

We all know the weaknesses of the A-League in coaching and players.

But good management is also about motivation- and good managers realise the shortcomings of their players but also find ways to get the best from them. Verbeek is incapable of doing this.

What are you agreeing with? Are you agreeing that it'd be nice to see Turnbull et al get their shit together and get some players out there for us, or are you agreeing that Verbeek's making that impossible?

More that I agree Verbeek's comments have been unhelpful where the A-League is concerned. On top of that, I don't think he's a very good manager despite taking us to the brink of the World Cup, but that's besides the point.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Good on you PT, give him a kicking

 

[David Votoupal]

No sane national team coach would ever bag a country's national league, even if most of a country's players play elsewhere, even though the gap between home-grown and overseas Australian players is bigger than most countries.

It shows that Verbeek is an arrogant clown.

Sure, we're on the threshhold of qualifying for the World Cup. But considering the resources available and the paucity of the opposition, it's not such a huge accomplishment. We are doing the bare minimum, and it seems are being conditioned to accept mediocrity, to accept cliches and rhetoric. That's exactly what's happening under Verbeek.

 

[clarence]

In the end, Verbeek may be seen as interfering, but look at this situation of players playing in Europe vs. returning to Australia for a moment, and you can understand where Verbeek is coming from.

If YOU had a player who has been able to establish themselves in Europe come up to you, as NT manager, while you were in a Socceroos camp, and ask whether it would be better to stay OS for a couple of more years or take a lucrative offer to return to Australia for less games in a  lesser quality competition, what would you say? IF the player asked if it would jeopardise their spot in the Socceroos squad how would you react?

TBF, I think I'd react very similar to Verbeek. As a NT manager, you want the best players in the best possible comp. they get into domestically, and with the most game time. That way, they usually receive the best coaching over time, they get involved in some cracker games and their confidence soars. They become easier players to manage with short notice and little preparation time.

The A-League has the noose around it's neck when teams from this comp. goes to play against teams from other comps. For a start we have the salary cap, but that is an evil necessity, particularly in these dark financial times. We are a new comp. too, and yet to cement an established market within the psyche of the sports fans in Australia. Slowly, we are getting there.

I would liken PT's spray towards Verbeek as perhaps a smokescreen for his own board's inability to get a better squad for the ACL - a campaign they knew they were going to have to lift their quality of playing style for, as far back as 12 months before.

It would not have mattered if Chippers was in LB in place of Heff the other night, Kawasaki would have isolated him, and run amok up the right side or through the centre instead!

What we needed was a number of better players in key roles such as the spine of the team (CB, DCM, ACM, Striker). Now Huke did alright , and so did Danny considering the way our defence was being outplayed, too. Not just 1 million dollar superstar, but a number of seasoned players who were of better quality than what we fielded the other night.

But the ACM role was non existent, and Nik drop his effort once he got a smack on the nose. Macca tried but was outclassed, Hutch & Osman - for all their effort - couldn't cope, and even Cacares had a hard time breaking clear.

Given the rampage that Kawasaki unleashed on us when they went on attack, particularly in the 2nd half, a player like Chippers would have had to defend too much to have the energy or space to do runs down the flank.

In my mind, the loss against Kawasaki & all the embarrassment that causes, should rest firmly upon the board's inability to improve their player roster. PT claims that Verbeek has 'poisoned' the overseas Aussies, but the type of Chippers was not what we needed the other night, we just needed to have an improved playing roster than the players we had.

I reiterate, 1 superstar Aussie player would not have been able to save the Mariners from the end result of a loss, against an overall more competent team like Kawasaki. One player cannot be everywhere.

 

[clarence]

No sane national team coach would ever bag a country's national league, even if most of a country's players play elsewhere, even though the gap between home-grown and overseas Australian players is bigger than most countries.

It shows that Verbeek is an arrogant clown.

Sure, we're on the threshhold of qualifying for the World Cup. But considering the resources available and the paucity of the opposition, it's not such a huge accomplishment. We are doing the bare minimum, and it seems are being conditioned to accept mediocrity, to accept cliches and rhetoric. That's exactly what's happening under Verbeek.

I don't think that Verbeek is being arrogant. I think he's being more honest and perhaps a little tactless in his comments, but nonetheless, it appears his own honest views.

He is about the highest credentialled manager we have in this country at the moment, and I think he has far better cred to comment about what he has seen in A-League games vs. what he has seen in other leagues around the world, than just about anyone else in Australia, including the esteemed likes of Foster, Slater et al.

If you start dismissing his comments as arrogant, you are going to miss out on some very astute observations from someone who is very highly qualified to comment.
Maybe we should ( including Mr. Turnbull) should wonder why he's making these sort of statements and try to address Verbeek's reservations about the A-League. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Verbeek is not an Australian, he is an overseas employee hired with 1 objective only. Get us the the WC in 2010.

Why would he give a flying about the local game? Its not in his job description so he will do/say whatever he has to in order to achieve his objective and presumably collect on his bonus.

His actions are not a surprise. The FFA allowing him to do it is absurd.

 

[David Votoupal]

clarence,

I won't argue, because I do believe the A-League has many issues which have to be worked out. There's no doubt the quality of the league leaves a lot to be desired. However, a good manager while recognising these shortcomings would find ways to get players to play over and above those limitations. I may share Verbeek's views, but instead of trying to talk A-League players down, I would find ways to get them playing above themselves.

South American and African countries with a large contingent of European-based players can still pick domestic-based players, who tend to fit in with no problems because the technical gap is nonexistent.

I'm critical of the A-League too. But instead of being negative, I prefer to be positive and find ways to improve things (hence my foreign coaches idea).

 

[Razorback]

Verbeek obviously sees overseas leagues as better for player development. This in turn makes his job easier and the talent pool deeper. Totally understandable to criticise the league in terms of players and coaching. He wants the strongest squad possible to give the national team the best chance possible at success. Why is this surprising to PT?

 

[David Votoupal]

But many international managers have to work with LESS than what even we can muster, yet you never see them make barbed comments on their domestic game do you? There's a need to be tactful here.

Considering that Verbeek made South Korea look deeply average at the last Asian Cup, and was coaching at Feyenoord in one of their darkest periods until more recent times, his comments are a bit rich don't you think?

 

[fruitbat]

Coast backer slams Verbeek

Michael Cockerill
April 10, 2009
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ANGRY Central Coast Mariners backer Peter Turnbull yesterday became the fourth club owner to accuse Socceroos coach Pim Verbeek of undermining the A-League.

Moments after the Mariners were embarrassed 5-0 by Japanese side Kawasaki Frontale in Tuesday night's Asian Champions League match in Gosford, Turnbull said the A-League would struggle to bridge the gap as long as Verbeek continued to discourage leading Socceroos from returning from Europe at the same time as encouraging emerging talent to head in the opposite direction.

."

See, there's a point here.

One thing that concerns me though is that this is a smokescreen for them not spending money in other areas, or maybe not spending in the best possible way.

Are we spending the entire cap?
If we are, are we really getting value?
If we aren't, why not? How are we supposed to compete when we're not laying out the same coin?

I get that we're hunting for players, I get that we're trying to sign quality where available, I also get that there's a long time til the HAL season starts so the hunt for players has time to play out.

But the ACL campaign has so far been shaky at best, supporters have every reason to be concerned. While Turnbull's got a point, and it's probably a point that needed to be made, Verbeek's also got a job to do and if he's not honest, he's not doing his job.

So the two are conflicted - it's all part of the dilemma of developing a club competition and maintaining success for the national side. Both need to happen. And for all Turnbull's complaints, other clubs are picking players up...

I'd rather see some players and less complaining.

Its interesting that he complained immediately after his investment got a 5-0 flogging. I think he is using Pim Verbeek as a scapegoat. (Otherwise why hasnt he raised this concern before, and why has he done so in the media rather than behind closed doors with the FFA).

I think Pim has an obligation to call it how it is. He has an object to achieve in terms of the World Cup and has no obligation to the A league. If any of you were the managers or relatives of an overseas player would you honestly tell them it would advance their career to come back here? Of course not, its a footballing backwater.

The inaugural teams had a five year monopoly period in which to get their acts together. If they dont have the people and finances sorted out by now, when exactly will they?
I think Turnbull's complaint sounds like a plea for more preferential treatment.

 

[midfielder]

I see it as a temporary ... PIM needs to make WC & do reasonable there... therefore he needs the players to come out of European seasons ... after the WC we need a new bunch to take us to 2014, and most of the existing squad will not make the 2012 squad maybe even the 2011... So after the WC heaps will return...

 

[Arabmariner]

I see it as a temporary ... PIM needs to make WC & do reasonable there... therefore he needs the players to come out of European seasons ... after the WC we need a new bunch to take us to 2014, and most of the existing squad will not make the 2012 squad maybe even the 2011... So after the WC heaps will return...

I agree with that.

The present 1st choice Australian team is getting on a bit.And most of them do want to come home at some stage I think.