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Asia- no new frontier

David Votoupal

Well-Known Member
Australia became a member of the AFC at the start of 2006, meaning we went into the World Cup as a member of the AFC despite qualifying as Oceania's representative.

However, Asia is far from a new frontier for Australian football, despite the impression some people seem to be getting. In fact, though Australia and for that matter New Zealand were not AFC members, from the mid-60s to early 80s both countries were actually part of the Asian qualifying zone. Oceania was not a stand-alone zone for qualifying purposes until the 1986 qualifiers, which was the start of two decades of injustice until Australia was finally admitted to the AFC.

Australia's entrance into competitive football came with the 1966 World Cup qualifiers, in which FIFA reserved one place to be played off between Asian and African teams. Two teams geographically in Asia, Israel and Syria, were bizarrely placed in the European qualifiers- Syria later withdrew. Israel would later take part in Asian qualifiers before moving to Europe (again), Oceania and again Europe. The Asians and Africans weren't thrilled, and almost all of them withdrew- leaving just Australia and North Korea to play-off for a place in the 1966 World Cup. Two games were played in Cambodia, North Korea running out 6-1 and 3-1 winners- and we all know how good North Korea turned out to be.

This meant that Australia would start playing, quite regularly, matches against Asian opposition and the 1970 qualifiers saw Australia take on South Korea and Japan for the first time in competitive matches. Israel was the final hurdle and they edged Australia out- and in Mexico, Israel were to give a good account of themselves against Sweden and Italy. In fact, Australia played Israel with some regularity up to the 1990 qualifiers.

It was by winning the Asian zone qualifiers, after a series of games that took in New Zealand, Iraq, Indonesia, Iran and South Korea, that Australia qualified for its first World Cup. The 1978 and 1982 qualifiers brought none of the same joy, which was a real let-down considering the NSL had just started. On the other hand, New Zealand qualified for the 1982 World Cup from this region, by defeating China in a play-off in Singapore after they had finished level on points in the final Asian group stage which Kuwait had won. Interstingly the "Oceania sub-group" of the Asian qualifiers for '82 included not only Australia and New Zealand, but also Fiji, Taiwan and Indonesia. So, in effect, Australia and New Zealand were de facto representatives of Asia in the World Cup.

Oceania was then spun off into its own qualifying zone, including Israel and Taiwan for political purposes before Taiwan returned to Asia, and Israel joined UEFA in the 90s. The very existence of this confederation, then and now, is akin to a terminal patient with a lack of proper care. Why FIFA let this go on for so long, to our angst for so long because we were denied the same terms as most others, is something we never understood. If FIFA had allowed Oceania winners to do what they had been able to do up to '82, we might have made more World Cups. But it's in the past now.

So in effect, Australia didn't merely "join" Asia but more like "returned" to competing regularly against Asian opposition. Of course, the standard of Asian football has risen greatly in the intervening years even if it may not be that great. But back when we competed in Asian qualifiers, we were usually regarded as contenders, as one of the stronger teams in qualifying- not that it counted for much in the '78 or '82 series. And now, that we're official AFC members, we're one of the heavyweights of the confederation. And we look like making the most of it, or that's what we hope.
 

kevrenor

Well-Known Member
David Votoupal said:
...
So in effect, Australia didn't merely "join" Asia but more like "returned" to competing regularly against Asian opposition ...

Yep, I remember many a packed game at the old Sportsground against South Korea, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Israel .... it was that (late) scheming ferret Charlie Dempsey and some politics in Asia that stuffed us for 20 years. 
 

loyalist

Well-Known Member
Greatest moment in Australian football history.
Australia vs. Israel when the German national anthem was played instead of the Israeli
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
fark orf.

there's some truly shameful history from our ties against israel.

i *don't* think all's fair in football, and swastikas and hissing and songs about gas chambers are right down at the bottom of low acts.
 

Bear

Well-Known Member
dibo said:
i *don't* think all's fair in football, and swastikas and hissing and songs about gas chambers are right down at the bottom of low acts.

Stay away from West Ham Yids then
 

David Votoupal

Well-Known Member
You compare Africa, Asia and CONCACAF, and I can say that Africa is definitely a stronger confederation overall than either Asia or CONCACAF.

Everyone derides CONCACAF, yet it has history and football tradition, and Asia's WC performances have been little better than most of CONCACAF's. Africa on the other hand has a depth of talent bettered only by Europe and South America, and except for Zaire in 1974 (behind which there were, I understand, mitigating circumstances), most African teams have performed credibly at World Cups.

In Asia, the gap between the top tier sides and the rest is still substantial even though the it is improving overall. You still have, though, teams who are as pathetic and hopeless as the Oceania minnows- whereas the Caribbean nations in CONCACAF can call upon English-based professionals to raise their level of play.
 

loyalist

Well-Known Member
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2611892262_1d90175847_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2611068217_1c1990e3a6_o.jpg
 

MrCelery

Well-Known Member
kevrenor said:
David Votoupal said:
...
So in effect, Australia didn't merely "join" Asia but more like "returned" to competing regularly against Asian opposition ...

Yep, I remember many a packed game at the old Sportsground against South Korea, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Israel .... it was that (late) scheming ferret Charlie Dempsey and some politics in Asia that stuffed us for 20 years. 

Aaaah, the old Sportsground. My fondest memory of that venue (apart from the huge New York Cosmos match) was watching the Socceroos see off NZ 2-0 on a hot sunny day with Kossie scoring a blinder.
 

kevrenor

Well-Known Member
MrCelery said:
kevrenor said:
David Votoupal said:
...
So in effect, Australia didn't merely "join" Asia but more like "returned" to competing regularly against Asian opposition ...

Yep, I remember many a packed game at the old Sportsground against South Korea, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Israel .... it was that (late) scheming ferret Charlie Dempsey and some politics in Asia that stuffed us for 20 years. 

Aaaah, the old Sportsground. My fondest memory of that venue (apart from the huge New York Cosmos match) was watching the Socceroos see off NZ 2-0 on a hot sunny day with Kossie scoring a blinder.

Cosmos was the Showground I seem to remember ...

My SSG fondest memory was

a) Domestic - sitting with a group of my Drummoyne Boy's HS classmates on the grass of the southern hill between Pan Hellenic fans and APIA fans and alternately baiting each side (we didn't have a team to support, but must have been certifiable)
b) International - beating Iran, with Ray Baartz scoring a trademark screamer from midfield
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
poglavnik said:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2611892262_1d90175847_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2611068217_1c1990e3a6_o.jpg

Cheers Forza, it's probably a good thing that people see and read these to get an idea of some of the history of the darker elements in football here.
 

kevrenor

Well-Known Member
dibo said:
poglavnik said:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2611892262_1d90175847_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2611068217_1c1990e3a6_o.jpg

Cheers Forza, it's probably a good thing that people see and read these to get an idea of some of the history of the darker elements in football here.

No doubt there were dickheads there (as we have at all games, including ours), but both stories really are to an extent beatups.  I don't doubt they occurred just that these were not in mainstream media at the time, and were isolated incidents.

I was there .. albeit in about Bay 60 not 23. In fact so large was the crowd ... estimated at 46,000 (and an unofficial record for the SFS) that the gates were opened (being after the crush deaths in UK the day before) and the members area made available (thanks for that! :) 
 

David Votoupal

Well-Known Member
Was also the era of Oscar Crino, Australia's most gifted midfielder of his generation and one of if not the most gifted ever seen. He had a brief spell at Cyprus but otherwise spent much of his career (like most Australian players of the time) in the NSL. He would've provided plenty of ammo for Farina, Arnold and Kosmina to score for the Socceroos.
 

loyalist

Well-Known Member
dibo said:
poglavnik said:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2611892262_1d90175847_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2611068217_1c1990e3a6_o.jpg

Cheers Forza, it's probably a good thing that people see and read these to get an idea of some of the history of the darker elements in football here.
fwiw im pro similar things happening these days
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
poglavnik said:
dibo said:
poglavnik said:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2611892262_1d90175847_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2611068217_1c1990e3a6_o.jpg

Cheers Forza, it's probably a good thing that people see and read these to get an idea of some of the history of the darker elements in football here.
fwiw im pro similar things happening these days

it's a good thing that these days, you try similar shit you'll be thrown out of the ground - not just by security but by supporters.
 

loyalist

Well-Known Member
35aoy79.jpg

this is a picture from this year
every person in it was not kicked out by security or other supporters
bl dibo
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
poglavnik said:
Greatest moment in Australian football history.
Australia vs. Israel when the German national anthem was played instead of the Israeli

Did that really happen ... LOL ...
 

David Votoupal

Well-Known Member
Looking back, for the Socceroos to qualify for 1974 and the All Whites to qualify for 1982 were both tremendous achievements, when you take into account the vagaries of the qualifying zone and the fact that fewer teams qualified. Consider too that both teams were made up entirely of home-based part-timers, even though most countries' NTs at the time were domestic-based anyway. From our '74 side Adrian Alston went on to play for Luton and Cardiff, whilst from the NZ side Ricki Herbert and Wynton Rufer would go to Europe (there were a couple of NSL-based players among them too).

Of course, Asian football was weaker than it is now, but it was still very challenging. In the 70s, Iran was by far the dominant side on the continent before the Revolution, winning 3 Asian Cups in a row and qualifying for the 1978 World Cup where they managed a credible draw with Scotland. Australia eliminated them in the first knock-out phase. South Korea had eliminated Israel in the other play-off, who as said at the start had given a good account of themselves in 1970 and boasted players like Mordechai Spiegler. Cha Bum Kun was already playing for South Korea by then, and he would become the most successful Asian export to Europe.

We were the only one of the three "outside" or "minnow" teams in '74 to even gain a point, though Haiti had given Italy an almighty scare. And no doubt, those battling qualities won us friends in Germany, even lifetime support!

Asian football had changed by the time it was New Zealand's turn to step into the limelight. Iran fell into the wilderness after the Revolution only to re-emerge by the 1990s. China had come out of football (and general) isolation following Mao's death, and the "nearly men" team of 1982 is considered by many fans to be one of China's best ever in terms of talent- and had the inevitable weight of expectation. But equally significant, Japan and South Korea had exported their first players to Europe while oil-rich Arab countries were beginning to throw money at football and that included foreign coaches- Kuwait and Saudi Arabia hired Brazilian coaches.

Against that backdrop, in what would be Australia's worst WCQ campaign (we didn't even make it to the second group stage), New Zealand pulled off a minor miracle to even qualify for the 1982 World Cup. Kuwait were the best team in Asia at the time- they were Asian Cup winners in 1980, and would qualify for their first and only World Cup, where they held Czechoslovakia and lost only 1-0 to England (who went through the tournament undefeated without winning it!).

China were favourites to join Kuwait in Spain, but the All Whites did exactly what they had to do to finish level on points and GD and force a play-off in Singapore. They beat Saudi Arabia by 5 goals away from home, and then China in the play-off. Like Kuwait, they were drawn into a hard group but still made a contribution- scoring twice against Scotland meant that Scotland were eliminated on goal difference.

I guess it's even more unthinkable to think that back then, New Zealand were actually better than most Asian teams. But even Canada would have their day in the sun, too...
 

Paolo

Well-Known Member
Bearinator said:
dibo said:
i *don't* think all's fair in football, and swastikas and hissing and songs about gas chambers are right down at the bottom of low acts.

Stay away from West Ham Yids then
'spurs are on their way to auschwitz, hitlers gonna gas em again, they cant save em the boys from tottenham the boys from white hart lane'

is one particular song used
 

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